IUBB vs Army - Sunday, 11.12.23 @ 7:00 on BTN

[CSP]

10 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Doesn’t matter if we have someone else quicker or not (which we do in CJ) - Cupps will not be able to hang with many big ten level guards. This is easy to see.

the love for the hard nose  kid like Tom Coverdale etc is great but that doesn’t work when the other guy can blow buy you at will.  Braden smith 2.0. 
 

like the reply on Malik, this isn’t some crazy off the wall statement like you are acting.

It is a crazy off the wall opinion. No Cupps isn't getting schooled by B1G guards anymore than any other FR. 

Not every white kid under 6'3 is comparable. I've seen Cupps compared to Hulls... they're nothing alike as a player.  But again, Cupps is nothing like Coverdale and he's only marginally similar, and measurably bigger than Smith. 

And no CJ Gunn is NOT quicker than GC.

[IUCrazy2]

10 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

Not that program anymore? Yikes. Woodson would whole-heartedly disagree with you and so would many others. He has stated on multiple occasions that the next step for Indiana is to win a Big Ten Title and a National Title. Hell, he mentioned this as early as a couple of weeks ago. I believe him and so do many others. Despite, obviously what you think…We’re a top 15 program and many national writers and coaches would tell you that. 

Even moreso now with NIL.  There aren't many programs that can match what we can do with NIL right now.  

[IndyResident16]

13 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

And this is a real problem- and one I don’t understand. As in, why? 

We don't have any volume 3 point shooters. Now a question you can certainly ask is why don't we have volume shooters and one I'd be curious to hear, but IU taking 25-30 three's a game because "that's how basketball is played today" will wreck this season. Play to your strengths which should be efficiency at the rim with Ware and Malik and getting to the foul line. 

Get the defensive lapses and lack of rotations and closeouts in check and this team may be alright. But this team was never going to be a high scoring, gung ho shooting team ever since we failed to add a lead guard in the portal. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by IndyResident16

[MikeRoberts]

39 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Why. So we can pick up middle school Bob.  

If MSB could spell our guys for 5 mins a game then yes, but this is IU, I imagine we could find a player better than MSB, there were hundreds available.

[Stuhoo]

I'm not the only one, but I am among those who posted that this team was likely to take lumps in November, December, and maybe even January. And also that this team has a very high ceiling.

When I posted that prior to our first two games, I got a lot of 'likes' and no one pushed back.

Now that it is happening, the sky is not falling; it's exactly as expected.

• Stack some cupcake wins, even if they are close calls, while we are figuring it out.
• Stay healthy, especially with our guards; we're gonna need them all.
• Trust that a staff that includes a sh!t-ton of NBA and college experience has the collective tools to keep this group learning and motivated toward reaching something approaching their potential.
• Trust/hope that the staff can recognize and make adjustments to fit the personnel and to fit the way teams have been creating great three point looks against us.
• Trust that we have assembled a roster of really good kids that won't get resentful or play sad when they hit adversity.

And hopefully enjoy the results of a talented group that eventually has their collective light turn on.

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, IndyResident16 said:

We don't have any volume 3 point shooters. Now a question you can certainly ask is why don't we have volume shooters and one I'd be curious to hear, but IU taking 25-30 three's a game because "that's how basketball is played today" will wreck this season. Play to your strengths which should be efficiency at the rim with Ware and Malik and getting to the foul line. 

Get the defensive lapses and lack of rotations and closeouts in check and this team may be alright. But this team was never going to be a high scoring, gung ho shooting team ever since we failed to add a lead guard in the portal. 

We absolutely have several players who can hit well, on a good percentage, from outside. Volume shooters? That's purely a product of the offense we're running, not the individuals. Volume is the O, not the player. We are clearly taking shots, by volume, at the bottom of the B1G -- again -- and we're low nationally -- again -- despite that we have guys who can shoot.

What will "wreck" the season is playing to a system that isn't working, running two bigs up front who don't play well together and with poor perimeter D. We're getting grossly exposed from the outside, while we're not shooting from the outside. To keep playing like this is a recipe for a low B1G finish.

 

[IndyResident16]

5 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

We absolutely have several players who can hit well, on a good percentage, from outside. Volume shooters? That's purely a product of the offense we're running, not the individuals. Volume is the O, not the player. We are clearly taking shots, by volume, at the bottom of the B1G -- again -- and we're low nationally -- again -- despite that we have guys who can shoot.

What will "wreck" the season is playing to a system that isn't working, running two bigs up front who don't play well together and with poor perimeter D. We're getting grossly exposed from the outside, while we're not shooting from the outside. To keep playing like this is a recipe for a low B1G finish.

 

Name a single player on this team who you'd feel comfortable with shooting 4+ times a game from deep and still hitting at a respectable clip? 

We shoot well from three percentage wise because we're an opportunistic shooting team who doesn't force shots, likely because we don't have the capability to do so. 

[MikeRoberts]

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Name a single player on this team who you'd feel comfortable with shooting 4+ times a game from deep and still hitting at a respectable clip? 

We shoot well from three percentage wise because we're an opportunistic shooting team who doesn't force shots, likely because we don't have the capability to do so. 

Our 3 point percentage might go down as we are less selective but I believe X, Trey, Cupps, Ware could all be 30-40% from 3 in volume

[realTomCrean]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

Our 3 point percentage might go down as we are less selective but I believe X, Trey, Cupps, Ware could all be 30-40% from 3 in volume

Mgbako could as well

[Uspshoosier]

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Name a single player on this team who you'd feel comfortable with shooting 4+ times a game from deep and still hitting at a respectable clip? 

We shoot well from three percentage wise because we're an opportunistic shooting team who doesn't force shots, likely because we don't have the capability to do so. 

Johnson, Cupps, Galloway, Ware, Mgbako, Malik, Banks, off the top of my head who I feel comfortable shooting 4 + a game.   Probably more but those off the top of my head should let it fly if they are open.   

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

Our 3 point percentage might go down as we are less selective but I believe X, Trey, Cupps, Ware could all be 30-40% from 3 in volume

All three of those guards need space to get off shots that have a chance of going in. Galloway, Cupps, and Xavier needing 5-6-7 attempts a game just to shoot 33% isn't conducive to our strengths. 

[IndyResident16]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Johnson, Cupps, Galloway, Ware, Mgbako, Malik, Banks, off the top of my head who I feel comfortable shooting 4 + a game.   Probably more but those off the top of my head should let it fly if they are open.   

We're shooting 33% as is through 2 games on mostly open or uncontested looks from the perimeter. Efficiency is going to plummet with more volume especially as more shots become contested. We don't have any reliable knock down shooters on the roster currently.

[Artie86]

51 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm not the only one, but I am among those who posted that this team was likely to take lumps in November, December, and maybe even January. And also that this team has a very high ceiling.

When I posted that prior to our first two games, I got a lot of 'likes' and no one pushed back.

Now that it is happening, the sky is not falling; it's exactly as expected.

• Stack some cupcake wins, even if they are close calls, while we are figuring it out.
• Stay healthy, especially with our guards; we're gonna need them all.
• Trust that a staff that includes a sh!t-ton of NBA and college experience has the collective tools to keep this group learning and motivated toward reaching something approaching their potential.
• Trust that we have assembled a roster of really good kids that won't get resentful or play sad when they hit adversity.

And hopefully enjoy the results of a talented group that eventually has their collective light turn on.

^^This...^^^

 

[IU_FanClub]

51 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm not the only one, but I am among those who posted that this team was likely to take lumps in November, December, and maybe even January. And also that this team has a very high ceiling.

When I posted that prior to our first two games, I got a lot of 'likes' and no one pushed back.

Now that it is happening, the sky is not falling; it's exactly as expected.

• Stack some cupcake wins, even if they are close calls, while we are figuring it out.
• Stay healthy, especially with our guards; we're gonna need them all.
• Trust that a staff that includes a sh!t-ton of NBA and college experience has the collective tools to keep this group learning and motivated toward reaching something approaching their potential.
• Trust that we have assembled a roster of really good kids that won't get resentful or play sad when they hit adversity.

And hopefully enjoy the results of a talented group that eventually has their collective light turn on.

I think perspective is important as well. A lot of teams look like **** right now. Not to mention FGCU pushed Pitt to the brink last night as well. It is so early, the sky is not falling, and the team did not lose it's potential due to a few bad performances in *wins*. Go Hoosiers!

[IndyResident16]

2 minutes ago, IU_FanClub said:

Not to mention FGCU pushed Pitt to the brink last night as well.

FGCU is a weird team. After taking us to the brink of defeat they turned around and struggled with NAIA Ave Maria before giving Pitt all they could handle last night.

[Uspshoosier]

14 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

We're shooting 33% as is through 2 games on mostly open or uncontested looks from the perimeter. Efficiency is going to plummet with more volume especially as more shots become contested. We don't have any reliable knock down shooters on the roster currently.

You asked a question and answered it.  Those are guys I have no problem letting it fly.  Personally I don’t care if efficiency or percentage drops.   For me it’s less efficient clogging up the lane and throwing into the post play after play after play especially when there isn’t a top 10 playing in school history you’re throwing it down to.   For me I don’t need the shooter to be a  “knock down” shooter  to shoot volume 3s.   

[IndyResident16]

9 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

You asked a question and answered it.  Those are guys I have no problem letting it fly.  Personally I don’t care if efficiency or percentage drops.   For me it’s less efficient clogging up the lane and throwing into the post play after play after play especially when there isn’t a top 10 playing in school history you’re throwing it down to.   For me I don’t need the shooter to “knock down” to shoot volume 3s.   

I know you don't care but the coaching staff does and it's precisely why IU doesn't jack a bunch of 3's; because they don't have the personnel to do it. Indiana needing ~35 three point attempts just to hit 9-10 a game is going to have us playing on Wednesday of the B10 Tournament and nowhere near as efficient as "clogging up the lane and throwing into the post play after play"...clearly you have no idea what efficiency means or how it works. I'm much more fixated on limiting turnovers and on the defensive side of the ball than simply attempting more three pointers.

IU shot ~60% from the field Sunday night and over 80% from the line on 20+ attempts yet only won by 8. Why? Because of turnovers. Cut the turnovers in half and that's roughly 10 extra possessions. 10 extra possessions scoring at a 60% clip is at minimum 12 extra points. That's the difference between a sweat it out type game and a 20 point blowout. Much better chance of this team solving the their turnover issues than become a reliable 3 point shooting team. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by IndyResident16

[Uspshoosier]

Until they figure out a way to defend the 3 within the defensive scheme it isn’t going to matter how many 3s IU takes or doesn’t take.     Copy cat leagues.   Coaches for the most part know what they are doing so I’m guessing teams watched tape on both  Penn St games and Miami from last year  and watched them carve up this defense.  
 

 

[Uspshoosier]

Just now, IndyResident16 said:

I know you don't care but the coaching staff does and it's precisely why IU doesn't jack a bunch of 3's; because they don't have the personnel to do it. Indiana needing ~35 three point attempts just to hit 9-10 a game is going to have us playing on Wednesday of the B10 Tournament and nowhere as efficient as "clogging up the lane and throwing into the post play after play"...clearly you have no idea what efficiency means or how it works. I'm much more fixated on limiting turnovers and on the defensive side of the ball than simply attempting more three pointers.

IU shot ~60% from the field Sunday night and over 80% from the line on 20+ attempts yet only won by 8. Why? Because of turnovers. Cut the turnovers in half and that's roughly 10 extra possessions. 10 extra possessions scoring at a 60% clip is at minimum 12 extra points. That's the difference between a sweat it out type game and a 20 point blowout. Much better chance of this team solving the their turnover issues than become a reliable 3 point shooting team. 

They won because they played Army and not a team with a pulse 

[Dave from Dayton]

14 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

You asked a question and answered it.  Those are guys I have no problem letting it fly.  Personally I don’t care if efficiency or percentage drops.   For me it’s less efficient clogging up the lane and throwing into the post play after play after play especially when there isn’t a top 10 playing in school history you’re throwing it down to.   For me I don’t need the shooter to be a “knock down” shooter to shoot volume 3s.   

I have mixed thoughts about volume 3s being attempted.  This assumes we have a volume of possessions and can afford, maybe, to miss a large percentage...thereby making offensive rebounding that much more important.  How are we doing on offensive rebounding?  Never mind.

How are we doing on turnovers?  Never mind.

I also do not necessarily believe that more shots from the 3 line ends up automatically reducing the efficiency of making shots.  Especially if passing improves and plays set up the outside shooters.  

Plus, if shooting from the outside isn't getting more points and giving the ball to the opponent, then the more efficient strategy is to go inside or spot up or assist more.  

Defense, too, comes into the mix.

It is complicated.  Not really a good idea to just point out one variable as a fix.