2023 SF/PF Mackenzie Mgbako to INDI-F’N-ANA

[normandale97 203]

My point is...I've seen several people here and other places using Woodson and JHS as an advantage for IU. That argument holds no weight with Self in the picture. He's had a player drafted almost every year and Kansas. When comparing Self and Woodson...there is no comparison. Self can say...watch the NBA playoffs and the current league MVP...watch Wiggins....Grimes...etc. IU might get MgBako but the reasoning above doesn't make any sense. 

[normandale97 203]

3 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

if MM is coming off of the bench for Kansas or even starting with limited touches no way he goes straight to the NBA as a one and done and expects to be a top 15 pick

That's a big assumption though...how do any of us know he isn't starting and getting limited touches? 

[dwtaylor1055 1,524]

Just now, normandale97 said:

That's a big assumption though...how do any of us know he isn't starting and getting limited touches? 

big assumption but on a loaded team, an all but sure-fire pre-season consensus #1 team and very likely a final four team at worst barring major injuries I just don't see it.  I could be wrong though.

[dwtaylor1055 1,524]

6 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

My point is...I've seen several people here and other places using Woodson and JHS as an advantage for IU. That argument holds no weight with Self in the picture. He's had a player drafted almost every year and Kansas. When comparing Self and Woodson...there is no comparison. Self can say...watch the NBA playoffs and the current league MVP...watch Wiggins....Grimes...etc. IU might get MgBako but the reasoning above doesn't make any sense. 

Self hasn't coached in the NBA, CMW has.  Sure, I was using JHS as an example.  CMW has only been here for two years so it's fair to say JHS and TJD.  Self has been at Kansas for long long time

[Ryno6284 2,643]

55 minutes ago, Artie86 said:

Can we just get this guy on campus today, please......???? I need a good birthday present! lol

Mine is tomorrow! Happy Birthday!

[Hoosierfan2017 21,232]

18 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

My point is...I've seen several people here and other places using Woodson and JHS as an advantage for IU. That argument holds no weight with Self in the picture. He's had a player drafted almost every year and Kansas. When comparing Self and Woodson...there is no comparison. Self can say...watch the NBA playoffs and the current league MVP...watch Wiggins....Grimes...etc. IU might get MgBako but the reasoning above doesn't make any sense. 

Yeah, I don’t think people realize that it’s not this golden goose that they think it is. Getting players to the NBA is necessary to recruit and land these 5 star talents. It gets you into the room. But the other coaches in the room get guys to the NBA too. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc. have multiple guys get drafted basically every year. 

[HoosierAloha 30,067]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:12 PM, IUFAN1976 said:

“This seems to happen often. The recruit is looking for x, y, and z. IU definitely ahead of the competition when it comes to x, y, and z but then we don't "win" that recruitment. I wonder why that is and if the people saying what the recruit is looking for and how the programs stack up are bias. Odd”

Your reading into the fact that IU is ahead of the competition but doesn’t win the recruitment, and you wonder why, basically thinking the coaching staff dropped the ball

I believe you missed the perspective that was written from when attempting to explain what I was doing. I believe I have a fairly accurate assessment of where IU stands in the pecking order or college basketball recruiting and not surprised at the recruiting win and many losses we've had thus far in 2023 free agency.

[RaceToTheTop 25,505]

1 hour ago, normandale97 said:

Bill Self has produced quite a few one and done players. JHS was always one and done no matter where he went to college. 

Self has coached a lot of one and done players, but saying 'JHS was always a one and done no matter where he went' is a completely false narrative.  He was the 23rd ranked 2022 recruit coming in.  He was NOT a McDonald's All-American.

[RaceToTheTop 25,505]

30 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

That's a big assumption though...how do any of us know he isn't starting and getting limited touches? 

I think only one poster said he might be coming off the bench, and whether he would or would not be, there is one basketball at all times.  It's safe to assume that every player on the Kansas team is going to more limited touches than they would if they were somewhere else.  Kansas will be returning two guys that averaged in double figures for them last season + Hunter Dickinson and Timberlake, both top tier transfer guys.  And a fifth guy coming back -- DuJuan Harris -- averaged 6 assists per game and shot over 40% from three.

[Hoosier987 1,113]

One thing Self has is experience in this recruitment game. Kansas is a machine. They’re very tactful and clearly organized…they know what they want and they get it. I admit, I get a little concerned with our staff about this. Sometimes I feel like we’re throwing darts. Remember, and this may be a tough pill to swallow, but it’s not very hard to get a player to visit Indiana. It’s closing the deal once they visit. With Kansas in play, I hope all hands are on deck and that we’re mightily prepared. Lets reel him in!

[normandale97 203]

13 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Self has coached a lot of one and done players, but saying 'JHS was always a one and done no matter where he went' is a completely false narrative.  He was the 23rd ranked 2022 recruit coming in.  He was NOT a McDonald's All-American.

You can say it’s a false narrative…but JHS’s plan was always to be in college for 1 year. I don’t think he cares about the rankings. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,664]

9 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

At the minimum, most of them made a nice chunk of change on their first NBA contract.  And there really isn't a guarantee that they would have done any better if they had stayed longer.  Sometimes their flaws get exposed.

 

True. It a guarantee that the kids who are top 15 or whatever with a ton of hype, always fall out of the NBA if they've struggled in college. Like Harry Giles, Skal but other times when even good college players didn't make it... Shabazz Muhammad, Jahlil Okafor.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,703]

1 hour ago, normandale97 said:

My point is...I've seen several people here and other places using Woodson and JHS as an advantage for IU. That argument holds no weight with Self in the picture. He's had a player drafted almost every year and Kansas. When comparing Self and Woodson...there is no comparison. Self can say...watch the NBA playoffs and the current league MVP...watch Wiggins....Grimes...etc. IU might get MgBako but the reasoning above doesn't make any sense. 

Man I sure hope he's telling the kid to watch Grimes, a 5-star kid who played 1 mostly underwhelming year under Self, then transferred to play for another coach, improved in nearly every statistical category over 2 more seasons before going pro. :-)

Your point still stands, I just couldn't resist.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,241]

24 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

You can say it’s a false narrative…but JHS’s plan was always to be in college for 1 year. I don’t think he cares about the rankings. 

It is almost every 5 star kid's plan to be in college one year.  But getting is done and being a top 20 pick was no guarantee.  He was able to get there because what he and Indiana did together.  James Blackmon was similarly ranked out of HS and he never got to those levels.  It doesn't always work.  But it did this time and he is projected as a higher pick than he was ranked as a recruit.  That is a success story and Indiana should get it's share of that credit.  

[RaceToTheTop 25,505]

39 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

You can say it’s a false narrative…but JHS’s plan was always to be in college for 1 year. I don’t think he cares about the rankings. 

Trying not to get derailed, so will be my last response on the topic of JHS going to the NBA in terms of it being a credit.

It is a false narrative to say 'would have been in the NBA regardless'.  It's an after the fact argument.  As Wayne stated, five star player's typical plans are to play one year of college ball and then turn pro.....and yet they all don't.  Players don't just get drafted because they want to.  JHS wasn't getting mocked in the first round prior to his freshman season and if he had a second round grade right now, his 'plan' likely would have changed.  

Players in 2021 with a similar ranking to JHS:

18:  A.J. Griffen.  One and done.  Drafted with the 16th pick.

19.  Harrison Ingram.  About to play his third year of college ball.

20.  Max Christie:  One and done.  Drafted in the second round.

21.  Hunter Sallis:  About to play his third year of college ball.

22.  Michael Foster:  skipped college, went to G-league.  Has only played one minute of one NBA game.

23.  Trevor Keels:  one and done.  Second round pick, played 3 NBA games.

24.  Aminu Mohammed:  played one year of college ball, went into NBA draft.  Went undrafted.  Has not played in the NBA.  G-leag

25:  Matthew Cleveland:  about to play his third year of college ball.

26:  Brandon Huntley-Hatfield:  about to play his third year of college ball.

so of guys with similar profiles to JHS in the draft class before him......one of nine was a first round pick.  Only one other has a full NBA contract.  Three are in the G league.  The remaining four are about to be juniors in college.  Sounds awful distant from being a 'sure fire' NBA player.

[dwtaylor1055 1,524]

42 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

It is almost every 5 star kid's plan to be in college one year.  But getting is done and being a top 20 pick was no guarantee.  He was able to get there because what he and Indiana did together.  James Blackmon was similarly ranked out of HS and he never got to those levels.  It doesn't always work.  But it did this time and he is projected as a higher pick than he was ranked as a recruit.  That is a success story and Indiana should get it's share of that credit.  

JHS would not have been a top 15 pick had he of stayed at Pitt. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,946]

Kind of hard to argue JHS would’ve been in the NBA regardless, clearly hindsight, no real way to say it was a sure thing.
 

Related, though, he may well not have been considered a first rounder had X not gone down. It was that situation that allowed JHS to really show for the scouts, he grew his play into running the team by himself as the primary point while simultaneously being the other primary scorer with TJD. Unlikely without X going down.

Also while I don’t agree with the argument he was a sure fire first rounder regardless, it’s not a good comparison to pull up guys like Blackmon etc, or just other similarly ranked guys. JHS is a completely different player, body type, size, etc. He came to IU with an NBA ready body, big, strong, with an exceptional size and strength for a guy who could run point, with an already existing strong p&r game suited to NBA ball, and the program he came out of wasn’t just some high school in IN or elsewhere it’s a program stacked with future NBA level or D1 guys and a track record.

JHS is literally built for the NBA. I said that when he came to IU and said then I wouldn’t be surprised if he was one and done. He struggled at times especially early on and had inconsistent showings, great games followed by duds, so I thought maybe he wouldn’t get into that draft position. But he kept it going while becoming the engine driving the team and played himself into a deserved high draft projection.

[Stuhoo 80,463]

Will be interesting to see when it’s confirmed that he’s on the visit. Seems like is extremely likely that he will take it.
 

Once he makes the visit, we have a full opportunity to rise or fall on our merits. I love it when we get that opportunity.

[jbeaman9 1,021]

8 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Will be interesting to see when it’s confirmed that he’s on the visit. Seems like is extremely likely that he will take it.
 

Once he makes the visit, we have a full opportunity to rise or fall on our merits. I love it when we get that opportunity.

Rabby mentioned as things stood at 11 am (EST I assume) the plan was to arrive in Bloomington later today with the bulk of his visit being tomorrow.

[HoosierHoopster 6,946]

Well this guy sure is getting the build up and hype. I’m optimistic— the fit is right there, Woodson has a great shot to close this out.