How far away is IUBB from being elite again?

[IU Scott]

50 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Duke, UNC and Villanova can still have a huge drop off. Early success could be afterglow from prior regime. I suspect none of those programs would hire/extend/allow 19 combined years of Davis, Archie, Crean level coaches like we have 

Davis did go to the championship game. Crean won the big ten twice and made the sweet 16 3 times. Not good enough for IU but it isn't like they had no success 

 

[southernindianahoosier2]

30 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Davis did go to the championship game. Crean won the big ten twice and made the sweet 16 3 times. Not good enough for IU but it isn't like they had no success 

 

At any point after the Davis FF, or Crean 2013 S16 did you have confidence in our coaching to bring us a national championship? Or confidence at all going into the tournament 

[Hoosierfan2017]

6 hours ago, str8baller said:

That’d basically be Duke and UNC and Villanova, all of which you could make the case are mo longer elite due o their elite coaches retiring.  

I don’t think you can make that case at all. Nova and Duke are both in their first season without their coaches. UNC is in their second season and they made the title game in their first season. Maybe they will stop being elite, but it’s far too early to make that call. 

[HoosierHoops1]

22 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Moren is an absolutely outstanding coach and leader of the Women’s program and she’s been building it. Right now the Women’s program is clearly ahead, Woodson is just heading into year 2. Can he build the program like she has and is? Way top early to know, but both as of now look to be in good hands

He would probably be fired after that crazy transfer period about 4 years ago.

[NashvilleHoosier]

Just to stoke this fire a bit....Kansas with another absolute banger of an alternate uni tonight.

[str8baller]

56 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t think you can make that case at all. Nova and Duke are both in their first season without their coaches. UNC is in their second season and they made the title game in their first season. Maybe they will stop being elite, but it’s far too early to make that call. 

Of course I can. Your program is mainly your coach. None of those programs have a proven elite coach. Did you consider UNC elite under Matt Doherty? It’d be odd to say yes given their own administration didn’t feel that way and summarily fired him. But it’s subjective though so you can consider whomever you want elite. Even Indiana. 
 

Also, I left out Kansas. They obviously meet the criteria postulated by another poster that wasn’t me. They’re probably the best example. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

Of course I can. Your program is mainly your coach. None of those programs have a proven elite coach. Did you consider UNC elite under Matt Doherty? It’d be odd to say yes given their own administration didn’t feel that way and summarily fired him. But it’s subjective though so you can consider whomever you want elite. Even Indiana. 
 

Also, I left out Kansas. They obviously meet the criteria postulated by another poster that wasn’t me. They’re probably the best example. 

You absolutely cannot sit there and say that Duke, UNC, and Nova are no longer elite programs lol. That’s just a silly thing to say right now. You don’t go from elite to not in the span of 18 months, especially when you’ve played in a national championship game during that span. IU lost its elite program status over almost two decades. 

[HoosierAloha]

You absolutely cannot sit there and say that Duke, UNC, and Nova are no longer elite programs lol. That’s just a silly thing to say right now. You don’t go from elite to not in the span of 18 months, especially when you’ve played in a national championship game during that span. IU lost its elite program status over almost two decades. 

This. You don’t go from good to elite with a team or two just the same as you don’t go from elite to good with a team or two.

Hubert Davis didn’t recruit those all those players as a head coach but he was the coach that took them to a title game. We’ve seen it before with Mike Davis and Kevin (?) Ollie making it winning a title with the previous coach’s players. UNC could fall off a cliff (a stretch so far this season) but they’re still an elite program. I’d suspect if Davis strings together a few bad years they’ll can him and get a winner. Why? Because they’re elite and they demand winning basketball.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[HoosierHoops1]

9 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

This. You don’t go from good to elite with a team or two just the same as you don’t go from elite to good with a team or two.

Hubert Davis didn’t recruit those all those players as a head coach but he was the coach that took them to a title game. We’ve seen it before with Mike Davis and Kevin (?) Ollie making it winning a title with the previous coach’s players. UNC could fall off a cliff (a stretch so far this season) but they’re still an elite program. I’d suspect if Davis strings together a few bad years they’ll can him and get a winner. Why? Because they’re elite and they demand winning basketball.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

We called Kelvin Sampson and got what was likely a winner, but he also was terrible at holding players, and himself, accountable. UNC, Kansas, UK all let that garbage slide.

[mjeze106]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

We called Kelvin Sampson 

Did he pick up?

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

3 minutes ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

We called Kelvin Sampson and got what was likely a winner, but he also was terrible at holding players, and himself, accountable. UNC, Kansas, UK all let that garbage slide.

And those programs get the glory and the glowing coverage in the media. College basketball success is like a good hot dog. People don’t care (or want to know) about what goes into it. They just care about the results. 

[str8baller]

16 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You absolutely cannot sit there and say that Duke, UNC, and Nova are no longer elite programs lol. That’s just a silly thing to say right now. 

Of course I can.  
 

What you want to do is see how everything plays out and then retroactively rate them. That’s fine…but that’s just an extension of the “blue blood” discussion.  
 

Villanova meets the posters criteria, but that was all under Jay Wright. Their currently 6-5 under what is essentially a first time, 30-something head coach. I don’t think anybody fears them as “elite.”  
 

But it’s subjective and semantics. So if you think Doherty’s UNC was elite and Neptune’s Villanova is elite, then it’s your call. I say no. 

[HoosierHoops1]

8 minutes ago, mjeze106 said:

Did he pick up?

 

Went to voicemail, "You've reached Cellvin Sampson. I'm unable to take your call right now because I am either on the line during an illegal recruiting contact or I am involved in  an over the limit text conversation with a recruit. If you're a recruit and I have not over contacted you the last few days, it's because I have decided to go a different direction. Go Soon, er I mean Hoosiers!"

[Hoosierfan2017]

22 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Of course I can.  
 

What you want to do is see how everything plays out and then retroactively rate them. That’s fine…but that’s just an extension of the “blue blood” discussion.  
 

Villanova meets the posters criteria, but that was all under Jay Wright. Their currently 6-5 under what is essentially a first time, 30-something head coach. I don’t think anybody fears them as “elite.”  
 

But it’s subjective and semantics. So if you think Doherty’s UNC was elite and Neptune’s Villanova is elite, then it’s your call. I say no. 

Your position just doesn’t make any sense at all. Programs don’t lose their elite status after a year. In Duke’s case, it hasn’t even been a year. It’s been 13 games, and they’re 10-3. They have the #2 class signed in the class of 2023, with #5, #8, #13, #18, and #24 signed. Five 5 stars coming in.

In UNC’s case, what have they done to no longer be an elite program? They played in the national championship game 8 months ago. 

This is what the poster you responded to said: Elite?  For those who do not understand the concept… Elite is consistently in the top ten, winning at least one national championship, with at least one other final four appearance and an additional elite eight and an additional couple sweet sixteens, winning a couple or three big ten titles including a big ten tournament or two over a period of time like the next decade or ten years.

That definition of ‘elite’ doesn’t lead to a program not being elite after a season.  Doherty was at UNC for 3 seasons. UNC had a few bad years during that time, but yes, they were still an elite program. And they fired him and poached a great coach from another elite program because that’s what elite programs do. They refuse to accept mediocrity and they don’t self-sabotage. 

[J34]

This is so close to the truth!

 

[Ryno6284]

Until said team misses the tourney year in and year out, they don't lose elite status.  Our last championship was 1987, we made the tourney 16 years in a row after.  I believe that is what kept us in elite status.  After that we missed 2 years, made 3 and then turned around and missed 3.  UCONN has lost Elite status in my mind, but UNC, Duke, and 'Nova haven't proved otherwise, YET!

[str8baller]

17 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Elite is consistently in the top ten,

Villanova isn’t anywhere close to the top 10 this season, and it’s unlikely all 3 of UNC, Duke and Villanovas succession plans work.   
 

Let’s put it another way: if you’re the AD and Woody said put a top 10 elite team on the schedule for ‘24-25. If their not “elite”/top 10 when we play them , you’re fired.  Who are you scheduling? 
 

There’s quite a few teams I get to before Villanova. In fact, I’m taking teams like Gonzaga and Virginia over UNC, most likely.  
 

I’m happy to revisit this thread in a couple years and see whose predictions turn out correct. 

[CSP]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:04 PM, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Duke, UNC and Villanova can still have a huge drop off. Early success could be afterglow from prior regime. I suspect none of those programs would hire/extend/allow 19 combined years of Davis, Archie, Crean level coaches like we have 

Sampson!?!?! 

[Hardwood83]

Saw this picture of a Ukranian soldier and it obviously caught my eye.

Maybe IU has a secret elite military unit we don't know about? 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

We are an offense away from being elite.