Game Thread: Indiana vs. Arizona (12/10) 7:30 p.m. EST on Fox

[RaceToTheTop]

Y’all know I’m a big JG fan, but right now what describes him is there is a big gap between what he is and what he could be.  If hdd we sticks around for a fourth year a lot of our success will hinge on how much of the gap he makes up.

[Golfman25]

14 hours ago, go iu bb said:

What does this mean, exactly? That the team made errors by not following the game plan or that the game plan was flawed?

Woody mentioned things like going under screens instead of over.  That wasn't how they game planned it.  

[JSHoosier]

20 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Y’all know I’m a big JG fan, but right now what describes him is there is a big gap between what he is and what he could be.  If hdd we sticks around for a fourth year a lot of our success will hinge on how much of the gap he makes up.

How long do people give him before accepting he is what he is though?  He's averaging 3.8 ppg and 2.8 rpg, and shooting a whopping 17% from 3 as a junior.  Against competent opponents he's under 3 ppg, as a junior.  His only game with more than 4 boards (twice, Miami OH and Bethune Cookman) was Jackson State, and only 3 in the last 4 games.

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

It's 3 days after we play Purdue. I'd say there's a far better chance we'll sleepwalk through that game and get pushed around again. 

Dang it, you're probably right

[HoosierHoopster]

49 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Y’all know I’m a big JG fan, but right now what describes him is there is a big gap between what he is and what he could be.  If hdd we sticks around for a fourth year a lot of our success will hinge on how much of the gap he makes up.

Yeah this is fair, in that in the last several games (unlike the first few when he played strong) he hasn't contributed well -- the "but" for me is that he can't do things when he's just not playing, and the limited minutes he's getting, on a short leash, leave little opportunity to get back to the level of contribution he was showing earlier -- and we miss out on tougher front court play.

See, for example, Bates. Many here, including those who say JG "isn't good," were saying similar things about Bates, based on his early play. He started off not firing on all cylinders, in several games, his timing was off, but he was given plenty of opportunity (in part earned over the summer) and then he had a breakout game, and he's been playing really well offensively (still some work to do defensively) since and his game and contribution level is growing. 

I'm obviously a JG fan too (excuse me while I pin up JG posters all over my office) but it's based on what he's actually shown, with minutes. He's going to make mistakes, he needs more polish, but what he brings in front court D, rebounding, steals, blocks, athleticism with actual energy and strength, and at least some outside shooting, for me justifies his getting more time, and I'm not surprised, at all, when we get beat by "tough" teams with front court guys that while skilled just don't bring that kind of game to the floor. 

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You're right, I have man crush on him. Lol. 

I disagree, he is good, his contributions are very clearly reflected in the stats (clear that Woodson is not an advanced stats guy fwiw), he's been one of our best front court defenders since towards the end of last year, but he still has some 'raw' to his game, he's not polished like Ren, and Woodson clearly still has some trust issues and has him on a shorter leash than other guys, who also make mistakes but stay in. 

Not going to continue this discussion, because all you do is say he's not good, see, that's why he's not getting the minutes. 

He'll either get played and demonstrate what he can do, or he won't, and the little jabs at my interest in seeing him and his defense, rebounding, blocking, and occasional deep 3 contribute to the otherwise "soft" play that a Rutgers' guy points out doesn't make any difference.

Thank God he isn't an advance metric guy because I feel he knows more than some computer geeks who never  played the game.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yeah this is fair, in that in the last several games (unlike the first few when he played strong) he hasn't contributed well -- the "but" for me is that he can't do things when he's just not playing, and the limited minutes he's getting, on a short leash, leave little opportunity to get back to the level of contribution he was showing earlier -- and we miss out on tougher front court play.

See, for example, Bates. Many here, including those who say JG "isn't good," were saying similar things about Bates, based on his early play. He started off not firing on all cylinders, in several games, his timing was off, but he was given plenty of opportunity (in part earned over the summer) and then he had a breakout game, and he's been playing really well offensively (still some work to do defensively) since and his game and contribution level is growing. 

I'm obviously a JG fan too (excuse me while I pin up JG posters all over my office) but it's based on what he's actually shown, with minutes. He's going to make mistakes, he needs more polish, but what he brings in front court D, rebounding, steals, blocks, athleticism with actual energy and strength, and at least some outside shooting, for me justifies his getting more time, and I'm not surprised, at all, when we get beat by "tough" teams with front court guys that while skilled just don't bring that kind of game to the floor. 

Most coaches base playing time on how well the players practice. None of us sees the practices so I will take tne coaches judgement on playing time.

[Alford Bailey]

JG is fortunate CMW likes to play a lot of guys. He wouldn’t see the floor playing for a lot of coaches at this level who like shorter rotations. He could have transferred to smaller schools like many former players of his talent level have done to get PT. He chose to stay and I’m sure Woodson communicated what kind of PT he would be getting.

[Bowhunter]

We have been soft for years. It’s time to change that! 

[HoosierHoopster]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Thank God he isn't an advance metric guy because I feel he knows more than some computer geeks who never  played the game.

I wonder why most NBA coaches and many college coaches track advanced stats, I guess they’re all clueless geeks, right? Sure.

I’m a believer in Woodson, but like anyone he’s not perfect, like insisting on starting and playing the same God awful underperforming backcourt all last year no matter how poorly they played. He has a stubborn streak to him, and his decisions aren’t always great. Questioning some of them isn’t blasphemy, and it doesn’t mean I don’t like him as IU’s coach. He could use some metrics, it might actually help.

[Stuhoo]

32 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

We have been soft for years. It’s time to change that! 

I still feel like Logan Duncomb should have the ability to come in a game and immediately punch someone in the neck while shooting a loogie at the opposing bench.

[HoosierHoopster]

32 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I still feel like Logan Duncomb should have the ability to come in a game and immediately punch someone in the neck while shooting a loogie at the opposing bench.

And sweeping his hair back with flair

[RaceToTheTop]

6 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

How long do people give him before accepting he is what he is though?  He's averaging 3.8 ppg and 2.8 rpg, and shooting a whopping 17% from 3 as a junior.  Against competent opponents he's under 3 ppg, as a junior.  His only game with more than 4 boards (twice, Miami OH and Bethune Cookman) was Jackson State, and only 3 in the last 4 games.

Well, I sung his praises all of last year and I would have swore he was capable of more.  He might be capable of more, but it's not going to be as a small forward and he's our third best power forward.  It's just a position of depth for us.  And next year if Reneau is back -- which the assumption obviously that he is -- I'm not sure how his minutes would go up much other than we NEED a post for next year.  Hard to think that we would look for Reneau to move to center, though.  I'm expecting that we'll look for  a transfer to combine with Duncomb in the post.

I do think JG has talent but he's just stuck in a numbers battle.  He didn't transfer at the end of last year with the thought that he would be working at getting time at the 3, but that obviously hasn't worked out.  I could see him transferring and being a 12 and 7 guy somewhere.  He's basically been a 5 point, 3 rebound guy in 13 minutes per game the past two years.....that rates out to about 11 and 7 in 28 minutes/game.

[RaceToTheTop]

36 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I still feel like Logan Duncomb should have the ability to come in a game and immediately punch someone in the neck while shooting a loogie at the opposing bench.

If he shoots loogies like JG shoots threes, he'll hit the people in the third row.

[RaceToTheTop]

3 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

JG is fortunate CMW likes to play a lot of guys. He wouldn’t see the floor playing for a lot of coaches at this level who like shorter rotations. He could have transferred to smaller schools like many former players of his talent level have done to get PT. He chose to stay and I’m sure Woodson communicated what kind of PT he would be getting.

The rotation has been shorter this year, though.  It's been a regular 9 man rotation that has been reduced to 8 man when we've injuries.  Basically he's the last man in the rotation but against the lilkes of Xavier/UNC/Rutgers/Nebraska/Arizona, he's still been getting about 10 minutes/game.  Kind of wish that Duncomb had improved to the point where he could be challenging for more minutes because it's not ideal in the post when TJD has to leave.

[HoosierAloha]

That’s kind of the problem with our “toughness” in the recent past. We think our toughness is just physicality which is leading us to fouling but it’s much more than just the physical contact aspect of it. Again, it has to do with leadership.


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[Hoosierfan2017]

6 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yeah this is fair, in that in the last several games (unlike the first few when he played strong) he hasn't contributed well -- the "but" for me is that he can't do things when he's just not playing, and the limited minutes he's getting, on a short leash, leave little opportunity to get back to the level of contribution he was showing earlier -- and we miss out on tougher front court play.

See, for example, Bates. Many here, including those who say JG "isn't good," were saying similar things about Bates, based on his early play. He started off not firing on all cylinders, in several games, his timing was off, but he was given plenty of opportunity (in part earned over the summer) and then he had a breakout game, and he's been playing really well offensively (still some work to do defensively) since and his game and contribution level is growing. 

I'm obviously a JG fan too (excuse me while I pin up JG posters all over my office) but it's based on what he's actually shown, with minutes. He's going to make mistakes, he needs more polish, but what he brings in front court D, rebounding, steals, blocks, athleticism with actual energy and strength, and at least some outside shooting, for me justifies his getting more time, and I'm not surprised, at all, when we get beat by "tough" teams with front court guys that while skilled just don't bring that kind of game to the floor. 

Bates gets more leeway because he plays a position we have a big hole at. The 2/3 is our weakest position by far. If you yank him, who are you going to put in? JG is competing with TJD, Race, and Malik in the frontcourt. No point in having him play through errors when you can yank him and put in someone better. 

[HoosierHoops1]

2 hours ago, Bowhunter said:

We have been soft for years. It’s time to change that! 

Every time X plays with an edge fans get their panties in a bunch. Can't have it both ways.

[HoosierHoopster]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Bates gets more leeway because he plays a position we have a big hole at. The 2/3 is our weakest position by far. If you yank him, who are you going to put in? JG is competing with TJD, Race, and Malik in the frontcourt. No point in having him play through errors when you can yank him and put in someone better. 

I see it differently. JG is competing more with Race than Malik, the early lineups with both JG and Ren, which were very effective, aren’t being used much lately, and Race has had some really off games / parts of games and been bodied, but stays on the floor anyway. Of course he’s the better all around player but he’s not better defensively generally and especially not against strong and/or athletic bigs. The Malik-JG lineup with TJD or Gallo had real promise, but JG is on a short leash.
He’s proven himself in multiple games but he still plays raw at times and Woodson wants experience or more polished play - nothing wrong with that but he sticks to that too rigidly (my op) even when we’re getting beaten up. We don’t get beaten up or play soft with JG and Malik in

[cthomas]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

That’s kind of the problem with our “toughness” in the recent past. We think our toughness is just physicality which is leading us to fouling but it’s much more than just the physical contact aspect of it. Again, it has to do with leadership.


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Toughness has always been mental to me. It's the attitude necessary to fight as hard as possible until the final buzzer.