NIL and IU

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,294]

This is an interesting thought exercise. On the free market, the players are more of the ceo than the coach. In almost any professional  league the players make 3-5x as much, or more, than the coaches.   
 
If this were truly amateur then the coaches and AD’s would get meals, housing, and $50k a year. We crossed that bridge a long time ago. Not sure why in any sane world Tom Crean should have ever made more money than Cody Zeller.  
 
College basketball is a multi billion dollar industry. That’s just revenue to the schools. Very little of that goes to the players. I’m not sure why people want to restrict them from earning money completely outside of that revenue stream. At this point it just seems petty. 

People want to stay in bubbles and think it ruins the purity of things that never really existed. In many ways, the new method of capitalism will be much better.

There is still incentive to be better at/in college and also to advance in the NBA if possible.

Players were transferring like crazy before NIL so transfer rate can’t be blamed on NIL, but rather playing time and that was never going away.

I don’t see why this changes things for people besides them being jealous.

Hopefully great players continue to want to play for Indiana. If we can compensate them adequately, all parties win. They chose us, they want to get better and advance just like they did before. Nothing really has changed except those blinded by college athletics have had the blinders taken off. If those paying for players don’t get the ROI they want it will balance over time. Again, everyone wins.




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[Stuhoo 80,494]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

People want to stay in bubbles and think it ruins the purity of things that never really existed. In many ways, the new method of capitalism will be much better.

There is still incentive to be better at/in college and also to advance in the NBA if possible.

Players were transferring like crazy before NIL so transfer rate can’t be blamed on NIL, but rather playing time and that was never going away.

I don’t see why this changes things for people besides them being jealous.

Hopefully great players continue to want to play for Indiana. If we can compensate them adequately, all parties win. They chose us, they want to get better and advance just like they did before. Nothing really has changed except those blinded by college athletics have had the blinders taken off. If those paying for players don’t get the ROI they want it will balance over time. Again, everyone wins.




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Amen and hallelujah.

[IU Scott 2,375]

25 minutes ago, str8baller said:

This is an interesting thought exercise. On the free market, the players are more of the ceo than the coach. In almost any professional  league the players make 3-5x as much, or more, than the coaches.   
 

If this were truly amateur then the coaches and AD’s would get meals, housing, and $50k a year. We crossed that bridge a long time ago. Not sure why in any sane world Tom Crean should have ever made more money than Cody Zeller.  
 

College basketball is a multi billion dollar industry. That’s just revenue to the schools. Very little of that goes to the players. I’m not sure why people want to restrict them from earning money completely outside of that revenue stream. At this point it just seems petty. 

See where I disagree with people is that I don't think individual players is who brings in the huge amount of money. People attend games and watch them because of the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back.  Players come and goes but the constant is the program which is what fans spends their money on.

[Stuhoo 80,494]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

See where I disagree with people is that I don't think individual players is who brings in the huge amount of money. People attend games and watch them because of the name on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back.  Players come and goes but the constant is the program which is what fans spends their money on.

Players that greatly contribute to winning bring in money.

An IU team with Grant Gelon talent doesn’t bring in money like a team with TJD talent.

[IU Scott 2,375]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

Players that greatly contribute to winning bring in money.

An IU team with Grant Gelon talent doesn’t bring in money like a team with TJD talent.

But we have had a lot of TJD's over the years so that really is my point. Also we even soled out AH the first couple of years under Crean with walk ONS playing.

[Stuhoo 80,494]

29 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

But we have had a lot of TJD's over the years so that really is my point. Also we even soled out AH the first couple of years under Crean with walk ONS playing.

Not true. Those first few years under Crean we were giving away balcony tickets. Cheap multi-game packages too.

And donations because of the team were way down. Archie era donations weren’t nearly as good as next year will be either.

I’ll go one farther—the University of Florida is one of the ten best public universities nationally. Tons of donations, tons of full price out of state students, and a destination school for academia. But it didn’t used to be that way. You know what was instrumental in changing their national profile? Coach Steve Spurrier.

It’s not just talent, but the basketball program is absolutely a business enterprise; always has been. Hire the right coach, get talent, good promotions, etc.

You think the Bob Knight tv show was a charitable event? It was a money making show for RMK because he won.

Talent like Vonleh clearly wasn’t money well spent—Adidas didn’t get their money’s worth on that one.

The combo of TJD and Woody? That’s a winner. 

 

[Golfman25 5,329]

No real issue with kids earning a buck while in college.  My concern is whether it becomes a distraction -- plates are already full with basketball and school.  

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

But they will know him. It’s speculative. No different than you having money in the stock market. 

Except it's "supposed" to be outside the uses of NIL. Having NIL set up in advance, and only if you come, is the text-book definition of an enticement to commit. It's supposed to be what value an athlete at your school had created to benefit your company. Pre-commitment he's not an athlete at your school.

[IU Scott 2,375]

https://www.si.com/college/2022/04/23/notre-dame-jack-swarbrick-division-1-change

View from the Notre Dame AD on college athletics

[str8baller 5,214]

10 hours ago, IU Scott said:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/04/23/notre-dame-jack-swarbrick-division-1-change

View from the Notre Dame AD on college athletics

I say this as one of those Northern Indiana kids that grew up a ND fan too: I cannot think of a more hypocritical institution or person (in Swarbrick) to complain about this.  
 

Going all the way back to “the gipper” (a paid professional and “student “ in name only) to their ground breaking national tv deal in the 90’s to Swarbrick himself, I’m not sure there has been an athletic program more monetized for the institutions benefit than ND. 
 

That don’t want to give any of that vast reserve of money to the players. They’ve been quite clear about that and have been making veiled threats to blow up their program and return to something like Div 3 for the past decade. It’s the most laughable bluff I’ve seen.  
 

The “scary” dichotomy Swarbrick warns of already exists. ND is free to go to the ivy leagues or Div3 any time they want. They have had that option for the last 30yrs. Yet instead of choosing it they’ve turned themselves into a modern football theme park that prints money.  
 

What really scares ND is that they love being independent and so long as the NCAA exists to lead all the conferences as some sort of organizing body ND was free to join in on all the structural aspects while cutting their own revenue deals. With the rise of these superconfrerences, there’s real risk of the NCAA going away—or substantially weakened—and these 3-4 confs negotiating terms of major college football among themselves. There’s little incentive to continue to treat ND with kid gloves then. They could be forced to join a conf or be excluded entirely.  When that happens ND won’t take any of the blame for their stance and the situation it has created. Guys like Swarbrick will blame their failings all on the kids for having the uppity hubris of actually asking to be cut in on some of the revenue. 

[iu eyedoc 1,950]

Seems that these "rules" were being ignored before the ink was even dry. Pack literally told OSU exactly how much he wanted in order to enroll in the university, blowing up the first two bullet points.  It will be interesting if they try to add some regulation, typically things tend to open up more as they age, the NIL was like a brinks truck flipping and bursting open on a highway full of college athletes. Some old codger screaming you kids put that money down is going to fall on deaf ears.

 

11. What is prohibited under the new policy?
Subject to state law, the following is prohibited under the new interim policy:
• NIL agreement without quid pro quo (e.g., compensation for work not performed). Student-athlete NIL
agreements should include the expected NIL deliverables by a student-athlete in exchange for the agreed
upon compensation and student-athletes must be compensated only for work actually performed.
• NIL compensation contingent upon enrollment at a particular school. For example, institutions should not
use NIL arrangements to improperly induce matriculation (e.g., guaranteeing a particular NIL opportunity
upon enrollment);
• Compensation for athletic participation or achievement. Athletic performance may enhance a student-ath-
lete’s NIL value, but athletic performance may not be the “consideration” for NIL compensation.
• Institutions providing compensation in exchange for the use of a student-athlete’s name, image or likeness.

[iu eyedoc 1,950]

1 hour ago, Schreckbagger said:

Still seems sleazy....

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If you finalized an multimillion dollar  app while at Ball St that you had been working on for years and a tech company wanted to buy it on the condition that you stay in school would you consider that sleazy? Would it be sleazy if you became disenchanted with BSU and wanted to transfer and MIT offered you a huge stipend to bring your talent there? Or would it be sleazy for Ball St to take the app that you had worked on for years and keep all the profit while in you were in school until graduation with the possibility that the app had become obsolete?

 

The powers that be in college athletics have conditioned everyone to think student athletes should be grateful for just getting a free education. Back when coaches were making  the equivalent of $150,000 in the 60's and 70's sure, but coach and university compensation has gone up 100 fold with the players getting exactly the same as they did in 1970. Between the 20 hrs/wk of allowable practice and and all the non practice activities, it is estimated they put in around 40hr/wk in season and then 20+ hrs in off season. They are working for the equivalent of around $12/hr as the primary producer of a $50M+ net revenue producing product. There is no company in the United States that has 4 or 5 executives and 13 paid workers with this kind of revenue and salary dynamic.

[IGotMeAWoody 238]

Some old school fans might hate this, but it's the only way the sport can survive moving forward. Everyone and their grandmother can see the hypocrisy of the NCAA and athletic departments raking in millions and millions while the players don't get a single cent. Coaches are regularly the highest paid state employee (lol).

 

Times are changing and there are many other options for young players to get paid and skip college ball all together. As a fan base, we should want the BEST for the athletes. Players actually have a compelling reason to stay in school longer. Instead of going to Euro or the G league, a solid 4th year guy can return for one more season and probably fetch a decent payday. (Armando Bacot comes to mind).

 

It's currently the wild west for NIL. It's going to take a couple years, and probably one big (bad) example, before any official guidelines come down and somewhat regulate the whole thing. Until then, we should just take full advantage and use this opportunity.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

 

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[RaceToTheTop 25,613]

4 hours ago, iu eyedoc said:

Seems that these "rules" were being ignored before the ink was even dry. Pack literally told OSU exactly how much he wanted in order to enroll in the university, blowing up the first two bullet points.  It will be interesting if they try to add some regulation, typically things tend to open up more as they age, the NIL was like a brinks truck flipping and bursting open on a highway full of college athletes. Some old codger screaming you kids put that money down is going to fall on deaf ears.

 

11. What is prohibited under the new policy?
Subject to state law, the following is prohibited under the new interim policy:
• NIL agreement without quid pro quo (e.g., compensation for work not performed). Student-athlete NIL
agreements should include the expected NIL deliverables by a student-athlete in exchange for the agreed
upon compensation and student-athletes must be compensated only for work actually performed.
• NIL compensation contingent upon enrollment at a particular school. For example, institutions should not
use NIL arrangements to improperly induce matriculation (e.g., guaranteeing a particular NIL opportunity
upon enrollment);
• Compensation for athletic participation or achievement. Athletic performance may enhance a student-ath-
lete’s NIL value, but athletic performance may not be the “consideration” for NIL compensation.
• Institutions providing compensation in exchange for the use of a student-athlete’s name, image or likeness.

The red part just seems silly.  So an NIL agreement to say, provide advertisements for a Bloomington auto dealership should be offered to a kid who chooses to play in California?

[Feathery 4,005]

4 hours ago, Schreckbagger said:

So..... we've openly accepted it as a sleazy business now versus, at least in a general perspective, an amateur sport.



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Why is it sleazy to pay someone for the services they provide with their skills and name recognition? Is this communist China? USSR? 
 

Would it make you feel better if instead of calling it a scholarship that it was just free tuition for an employee?

I remember back in the mid 2000’s the kicker for Colorado was ruled ineligible because he made money off his image and likeness for his Olympic skiing or snowboarding. Had nothing to do with football. That was wrong and Colorado tried to do it above board. Schools like Bama, Kentucky, Duke have all been paying players under the table and benefiting from it. Now the field can be leveled by programs that have passionate bases that have followed the rules.  

[PB1230 502]

8 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

OMG....Now the "you're all communists" argument. 

Fine, let's play that game. Give them as much as they want on NIL, after which they immediately pay back their total 4 year scholarship cost. After all, that's state money they're using as a bankroll, not their own like typical students.

Because NCAA can't seem to deter, or even want to institutionally govern their own rules as we've witnessed through your own examples, what makes anyone think they will with NIL compliance?

It's slimy.....










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But it’s not state money though, the athletic department just funnels tv/ticket revenue and donation money (from the same boosters that are contributing to NIL deals) to the university for tuition. 

[IU Scott 2,375]

I see people talk about how all of this money that the NCAA makes and that the players should get a cut if it.  Might need to look deeper to see that a lot the money goes to funding a lot of sports at the D1 level plus other three divisions.

did some calculations about how much it cost for just scholarship money for just both basketball teams and football just at IU.

Basketball 13 men's/15 woman's and I calculate $50,000 per player. Might be more at some places and probably less at others.

28x$50,000=1.4 million so say there are 340 D1 schools who issues scholarships $480,000,000

Football 85 scholarship players.  85×$50,000= $4.25 mil and say 120 D1 football. $510,000,000.

So look how much it cost to fund just scholarships for 3 sports in D1 sports.  That is not taking account the other 20+ sports each school has and the other divisions in college.  You have cost to cover travel for all of these teams.  You also have to cover these kids under the schools insurance policies.

It is so easy saying that the NCAA makes all if this money and the players should get paid because of it.  You need to look deeper at the cost it is to run each athletic department in college sports and how many of them don't bring in a lot of money.

[Feathery 4,005]

12 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

OMG....Now the "you're all communists" argument. 

Fine, let's play that game. Give them as much as they want on NIL, after which they immediately pay back their total 4 year scholarship cost. After all, that's state money they're using as a bankroll, not their own like typical students.

Because NCAA can't seem to deter, or even want to institutionally govern their own rules as we've witnessed through your own examples, what makes anyone think they will with NIL compliance?

It's slimy.....










Sent from my Moto Z (2) using BtownBanners mobile app
 

The NCAA can’t govern their own rules because they don’t have the lawful authority to get the Information they would need to punish if a school decides not to cooperate. 

The athletic department brings in so much money that no basketball player is using state money for school. If anything it would be a write off. The athletic department is self sustainable. 

Yes communists don’t pay people what they are worth and the value they bring to an institution. 
 

Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s slimy. It means the old model of a few making millions off of 18-22 year olds while they got a scholarship and couldn’t even get 3 meals a day is over. In my opinion the old model was archaic and it was definitely time to change.
 

The change actually benefits IU as well. IU was never going to return to the glory days without NIL. IU isn’t going to break the rules, so they need the rules to have as level of a playing field as possible. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Fred Glass has been working behind the scenes to set up NIL money streams? He is no longer employed at the university and has the fundraising connections to help get NIL collectives off the ground and it’s exactly what he has been doing. 
 

By having players get paid market value for their talent, IU can be a top 10-15 team annually moving forward. 

[Feathery 4,005]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I see people talk about how all of this money that the NCAA makes and that the players should get a cut if it.  Might need to look deeper to see that a lot the money goes to funding a lot of sports at the D1 level plus other three divisions.

did some calculations about how much it cost for just scholarship money for just both basketball teams and football just at IU.

Basketball 13 men's/15 woman's and I calculate $50,000 per player. Might be more at some places and probably less at others.

28x$50,000=1.4 million so say there are 340 D1 schools who issues scholarships $480,000,000

Football 85 scholarship players.  85×$50,000= $4.25 mil and say 120 D1 football. $510,000,000.

So look how much it cost to fund just scholarships for 3 sports in D1 sports.  That is not taking account the other 20+ sports each school has and the other divisions in college.  You have cost to cover travel for all of these teams.  You also have to cover these kids under the schools insurance policies.

It is so easy saying that the NCAA makes all if this money and the players should get paid because of it.  You need to look deeper at the cost it is to run each athletic department in college sports and how many of them don't bring in a lot of money.

It’s why the Big Ten Network is such a goldmine and benefits the conference schools. Bringing in 35 mil plus just from the conference network per school covers any tuition costs for all sports. 
 
The athletic department at IU actually helps support the university financially, not the other way around. 

[iu eyedoc 1,950]

5 hours ago, Schreckbagger said:

So..... we've openly accepted it as a sleazy business now versus, at least in a general perspective, an amateur sport.



Sent from my Moto Z (2) using BtownBanners mobile app
 

Anyone that believes that a coach should be able to make $10M/yr (Bill Self), a university can profit to the count of $50M/yr yet students should be denied the ability to make a legal profit from their years of work  and be happy putting in work at near minimum wage to produce the coaches and universities millions is clueless.

 

Yeah the students are the sleazy ones, LTFOL.