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JaybobHoosier

By JaybobHoosier
in Indiana Men's Basketball

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Stuhoo Enthusiast

Stuhoo

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2 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Another point about Cal....It's fair to look at how he did before UK where he wasn't relying on one and done's. Let's leave the vacated seasons out of the discussion for a minute. My counterargument is first to throw what he did at UMass in the garbage. If we're talking about what someone did in the 80s and 90s, not interested. So let's look at Memphis. Since an argument will be made that he proved he can win without relying on one and done's at Memphis, and let's assume he goes back to his Memphis ways of running a program, here's what that looks like:

NIT, NIT, NCAA first round, NCAA 2nd round, NIT.....then his real success from year 6 on. 6 years to build that. This isn't advocating for keeping Archie for 6 years. Just pointing out that if you think he can win in other ways, the example we have of that was building a program up for 6 years before he actually did win in another way. 

 

Umm...he started flat out paying for high level talent at the end of his Memphis run. He was never going to build a big winner without doing so IMO.

 

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JerryYeagley23
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This should go without saying obviously, but there will be no press conference tomorrow. I’ll be able to take the lid off a bit later in the week. But will say this, anybody providing details right no

JerryYeagley23
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I’ve had several PM’s so wanted to drop a quick line to the broader board. Love this group and fully intend to continue to contribute to the community, Im not going anywhere. (Sorry to a few of you) B

RoadToZion
RoadToZion

So I couldn’t get much from him unfortunately. But, to me that’s a good thing. There’s been pretty much zero chatter, nor leaks for a month about coaches. He said it doesn’t matter that the season is

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Brass Cannon

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1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Okay...Beard...I'd be stoked if that happened.

The problem is when Few, Bennett, Beard, Donovan, Stevens, and Wright all say no to a pay raise to come to IU. Then what, because that is overwhelmingly likely to be exactly the case.

By the way, when Few, Bennett, Beard, Stevens, Donovan, and Wright started out at Butler, Florida, Nova, Tech, Gonzaga, and Virginia, NONE of them were already successful at a high level. None, and there's no close call or 'kinda'.

So, the solution to a having coach that establishes a dream program is apparently not finding a failing Calipari or hoping to lure away an uninterested Stevens or Donovan; it's having the expertise and foresight to identify the NEXT Stevens or Donovan. That's how IU football got the best coach in the history of the program--and Tom Allen is committed to the program that he built--he's not going to fill the open Tennessee slot (a program that has similarities with IU bball).

That's why I was a fan of the Archie hire. Not because I knew he was the right choice for the next 25 years, but because, unlike Alford, he had a chance to be. If it's not working out? That was always part of the equation.

 

 

Beard or Oates tbh.  And I’m not saying the person has to be winning their leagues. But all those names you listed I doubt any were given too 10 money when they started at their current or most recent schools.  They earned what they are getting.  
 

If you are going to hire a guy who hasn’t proven crap. You don’t pay them as if they have proven something.  

Stuhoo Enthusiast

Stuhoo

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Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Beard or Oates tbh.  And I’m not saying the person has to be winning their leagues. But all those names you listed I doubt any were given too 10 money when they started at their current or most recent schools.  They earned what they are getting.  
 

If you are going to hire a guy who hasn’t proven crap. You don’t pay them as if they have proven something.  

 

Just saying...Archie at Dayton had proven himself infinitely more than Oats at Buffalo/Bama. And Oats would cost more than Archie to hire.

That's not me saying 'no' to Oats--I think he's an up and comer and would have a chance of being that 25 year star coach.

Hoosierfan2017 Newbie

Hoosierfan2017

Posted
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17 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Forgive me...I'm going to boil down your post to two options -- key points, as you stated them which I believe are spot on:

  1. You can succeed in college basketball with great talent and above average coaching.
  2. You can succeed with good talent and great coaching.

I pick option 2.

 

I’d have no problem with option 2 at all. If we could land our Jay Wright who’s here 20+ years I’d be all for it. I’m just burnt out on IU right now and doubtful that we’ll be able to find him. Another young guy like Archie or Steve Alford both seem more likely, and I don’t think either would work out. 

NashvilleHoosier Newbie

NashvilleHoosier

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3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Umm...he started flat out paying for high level talent at the end of his Memphis run. He was never going to build a big winner without doing so IMO.

 

I'm sure he did. And it seems inconceivable that he didn't do that at UK as well, especially with world wide wes around. I'm intentionally leaving those things (including his crowning achievements at both previous stops being vacated) out of the argument for why we should or should not hire him. I'm also leaving out the fact that I don't believe there is a single chance in hell he would leave UK and come to IU.  

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Brass Cannon

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4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Just saying...Archie at Dayton had proven himself infinitely more than Oats at Buffalo/Bama. And Oats would cost more than Archie to hire.

That's not me saying 'no' to Oats--I think he's an up and comer and would have a chance of being that 25 year star coach.

I’m going to say a guy undefeated in the SEC in his second year has proven himself decently. A guy with a little success in the majors is more impressive than a stud in the minors 

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Brass Cannon

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1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

So hire a young guy that hasn't done anything to deserve a blue blood look (Oats), give him a top 10 contract, then we're hamstrung when we need a new coach in 4 years.  I see we still haven't learned.

I wouldn’t give him a top 10 contract. Give him Archies which is about top 20 now.  But give him huge incentives.  Or do a roy Williams where almost everything is incentive 

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mamasa

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5 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I couldn’t care less about his postgame comments if he delivers the results he’s delivered at UK. After making just four tournaments since 2008, it would be a welcome change.

My main reason for not wanting Beard is that he was IUGradman was his #1 fan, lol

8bucks Newbie

8bucks

Posted
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1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Just saying...Archie at Dayton had proven himself infinitely more than Oats at Buffalo/Bama. And Oats would cost more than Archie to hire.

That's not me saying 'no' to Oats--I think he's an up and comer and would have a chance of being that 25 year star coach.

I will challenge the "infinitely" part.  Oats achieved 3 NCAAs with the round of 32 twice and round of 64 once.  Archie achieved 1 elite 8, 1 round of 32 and 2 rounds of 64.  So Archie's elite 8 is a biggie but I think Oats is closer than how you described it.

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Stuhoo

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3 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I will challenge the "infinitely" part.  Oats achieved 3 NCAAs with the round of 32 twice and round of 64 once.  Archie achieved 1 elite 8, 1 round of 32 and 2 rounds of 64.  So Archie's elite 8 is a biggie but I think Oats is closer than how you described it.

In a better (though not Power 5) conference.

And, as Brass said, things are going very well at Bama for him this year.

So, maybe not infinitely, but better.

HoosierAloha Newbie

HoosierAloha

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How much of Bama dominating the $EC is the conference being “down” this season? pUKe’s GM didn’t come through with the right off season free agent acquisitions, UF lost their best player, UT swimming in COVID, L$U being down, etc.

I’d like to see more out of Oats, which might align more with when Archie is looking for new employment.


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Hardwood83 Newbie

Hardwood83

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3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I wouldn’t give him a top 10 contract. Give him Archies which is about top 20 now.  But give him huge incentives.  Or do a roy Williams where almost everything is incentive 

Yes, to all of this. 

 

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coonhounds

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I would make fun but undoubtedly the way our luck is going the past 34 years they would just cause

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lillurk Newbie

lillurk

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1. SEC may be down but Kenpom etc. are adjusted for opponent, home vs. road, so on.

2. If they’re to be believed, Archie never had a team nearly as good as Oats’ last Buffalo team or this Alabama team. That’s especially true on offense.

3. You hire coaches for what they will do, not what they’ve done. Of course the past is prologue, but “Oats hasn’t won anything” is a weird measuring stick. He clearly has a scheme, finds talent, turns a program quickly. If he’s good at those things, the milestones will come. I just hope they come at IU.

CrossboneIU22 Newbie

CrossboneIU22

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I haven’t had a chance to get caught up on this thread so I apologize if this has already been said but here is what I would look for in a new coach when one is needed:

1. A coach who develops players and finds ways to get the most out of his players. 
2. A coach who really understands X’s and O’s on both ends of the court but especially Offense. 
3. A coach that wins with lesser talent. (The talent will be easier to get at a school like IU, but you cannot just rely on that talent)

4. A coach who adapts to the teams strength from year to year, team to team. 
5. A coach that has shown he can build a program  

You find someone who meets these requirements and I really think you will have a coach who is successful and brings IU back to the big stage consistently. Everything else will fall in place. 

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