Archie. Miller. Fired.

[JaybobHoosier 11,839]

I think it was after the home Purdue loss where Dakich said on his radio show that he was getting texts from angry former players about the product. I think everyone or done with Archie, so it will be interesting to see what happens because another year will be pretty bad in terms of fans and coach!


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[Stuhoo 79,861]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It might, but the administration should realize that success in a sport/team that people don’t care nearly as much about as basketball isn’t going to satisfy the angry mob. It doesn’t matter how good the football team will be. The fans will still be at Archie’s neck all season. 

For sure. And Dolson is aware that is exactly what will happen. And Dolson is a basketball fan to his core.

But being a senior executive is about making hard choices. Choices that sometimes are not popular, but are, in total, for the good of the organization.

 

[Feathery 4,005]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

For sure. And Dolson is aware that is exactly what will happen. And Dolson is a basketball fan to his core.

But being a senior executive is about making hard choices. Choices that sometimes are not popular, but are, in total, for the good of the organization.

 

The good of the organization fiscally and culturally would be to move on. Assembly Hall will be 25-50% full next year. There will be tons of lost revenue on tickets, concessions, and apparel. The fans that do show up will be angry and booing. Fire Archie signs will be more prevalent across campus. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,054]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

For sure. And Dolson is aware that is exactly what will happen. And Dolson is a basketball fan to his core.

But being a senior executive is about making hard choices. Choices that sometimes are not popular, but are, in total, for the good of the organization.

 

Keeping Archie is only good for the organization if the bottom line is their sole concern. If the money is there, and apparently it is, this is an easy decision. Archie won’t be landing any recruits in the next year with his hot seat. Keeping him another year is terrible for the health of the basketball program. Not only will it make next year a wasted season, but it will set the next coach back 2-3 years. Who will want to take over a roster with whatever scraps we have left at that point? They won’t be able to remake the roster with transfers like a new coach could this offseason  

Indiana basketball is the most valuable program our university has to offer. Both academic and not. A successful basketball program will do more for our school than any academic program could ever hope to do. Executives shouldn’t intentionally tank their most valuable product. Bringing Archie back will do exactly that. For whatever reason, our administration wants to make success as hard to obtain as possible. 

[Hoosier Guy 7,529]

1 minute ago, Feathery said:

The good of the organization fiscally and culturally would be to move on. Assembly Hall will be 25-50% full next year. There will be tons of lost revenue on tickets, concessions, and apparel. The fans that do show up will be angry and booing. Fire Archie signs will be more prevalent across campus. 

Yeah most the of the fans would show up strictly to boo the product on the floor. I wouldn’t blame them one bit

[Hoosierfan2017 21,054]

The current crop of IU donors is getting older as each year goes by. Every year we get farther and farther from the graduating classes that saw IU basketball at its best. IU is now graduating classes that never saw IU even play in the NCAA tournament when they were in school. That’s going to affect donations 15-20 years down the line. Each year that IU refuses to get serious about basketball will only make that worse. 

[iu eyedoc 1,877]

48 minutes ago, Hoosier Guy said:

Yeah most the of the fans would show up strictly to boo the product on the floor. I wouldn’t blame them one bit

Booing 19-22 yo young men isn't good for them, the school, recruiting or anyone. Just watch the players as they were walking off as AM was being accosted after the Rutgers loss. Who benefits from the looks on their faces? Doesn't matter that it was meant for AM, the players hear it as directed at their performance. Maybe it makes some simpleton alum feel tough and empowered, but it is just a sad look as an adult. Hope we move on from AM, but taking it out on the "product on the floor" is detestable.

[8bucks 6,376]

Any of you go to IU in the mid to late 80’s like I did?  I was there for the 87 championship and for the best years of Mallory. Football had AT who should have won the Heisman and Bowls 3 of the years I was there.  I was back on campus for the 1992 final four team. Men’s soccer won a championship in 88 as well. 
 

Such a great time to be a student. Hopefully most of you had a chance to be there for part of that

[JSHoosier 19,912]

10 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Booing 19-22 yo young men isn't good for them, the school, recruiting or anyone. Just watch the players as they were walking off as AM was being accosted after the Rutgers loss. Who benefits from the looks on their faces? Doesn't matter that it was meant for AM, the players hear it as directed at their performance. Maybe it makes some simpleton alum feel tough and empowered, but it is just a sad look as an adult. Hope we move on from AM, but taking it out on the "product on the floor" is detestable.

IU is hardly the only place where fans boo pathetic performance.  It never should've gotten to this point; IU should've put their big boy pants on and gotten serious long ago.  Indiana should've said "this is unacceptable here" instead of making excuses.  At Duke or UNC or pUKe, which even a Texas writer said is our rightful place, Miller would've already been gone.

It got to this point because Indiana let it.

[Golfman25 5,088]

21 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Booing 19-22 yo young men isn't good for them, the school, recruiting or anyone. Just watch the players as they were walking off as AM was being accosted after the Rutgers loss. Who benefits from the looks on their faces? Doesn't matter that it was meant for AM, the players hear it as directed at their performance. Maybe it makes some simpleton alum feel tough and empowered, but it is just a sad look as an adult. Hope we move on from AM, but taking it out on the "product on the floor" is detestable.

Agreed, except the players know.  They are probably booing AM as well.  These kids grew up playing basketball.  They know good vs. bad coaching.  They know how to achieve success.  AM handcuffs them and they don't like it -- no player would.  That's why he can't recruit players and we have open scholarships.  

[Golfman25 5,088]

21 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Any of you go to IU in the mid to late 80’s like I did?  I was there for the 87 championship and for the best years of Mallory. Football had AT who should have won the Heisman and Bowls 3 of the years I was there.  I was back on campus for the 1992 final four team. Men’s soccer won a championship in 88 as well. 
 

Such a great time to be a student. Hopefully most of you had a chance to be there for part of that

And Little 5 was still kick a$$.  Fun times indeed.  These current students are missing out on these great life experiences.  Feel bad for them.  

[Hoosierfan2017 21,054]

25 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Booing 19-22 yo young men isn't good for them, the school, recruiting or anyone. Just watch the players as they were walking off as AM was being accosted after the Rutgers loss. Who benefits from the looks on their faces? Doesn't matter that it was meant for AM, the players hear it as directed at their performance. Maybe it makes some simpleton alum feel tough and empowered, but it is just a sad look as an adult. Hope we move on from AM, but taking it out on the "product on the floor" is detestable.

Booing the product and the coach is one of the few avenues that fans have to make their voices heard. I don’t think anyone does it to feel ‘tough.’ They do it to show the IU administration that they aren’t ok with the team’s results. Fans can’t force the university to fire a coach, but they can show up and boo to influence the university. They can boo to tell the university that they’re not ok with a 5th straight .500 or worse conference season. They can boo to tell the university that they aren’t ok with a coach going 0-7 against their biggest rival. Should the fans just muzzle themselves and stay silent? Sending emails to the athletic director that he’s never going to read doesn’t send a message. Raining down boos does. 

[mdiu28 1,761]

41 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Booing 19-22 yo young men isn't good for them, the school, recruiting or anyone. Just watch the players as they were walking off as AM was being accosted after the Rutgers loss. Who benefits from the looks on their faces? Doesn't matter that it was meant for AM, the players hear it as directed at their performance. Maybe it makes some simpleton alum feel tough and empowered, but it is just a sad look as an adult. Hope we move on from AM, but taking it out on the "product on the floor" is detestable.

Unfortunately it's one of the only ways to get our frustrations across to the administration. Emailing them and writing on message boards will do nothing. The only other way to make our point is to stop coming to games. Then, Dolson's job becomes a topic of conversation. 

You want to get someone off their @$$ and work harder and realize they're in trouble? Embarrass them. We don't have a single shooter. Indiana University doesn't have a shooter. With all the shooters in the State that should never be the case. Either we aren't recruiting them or we aren't developing what we have - that's on Archie and the staff. Time for him to GTFO. 

[Feathery 4,005]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Booing the product and the coach is one of the few avenues that fans have to make their voices heard. I don’t think anyone does it to feel ‘tough.’ They do it to show the IU administration that they aren’t ok with the team’s results. Fans can’t force the university to fire a coach, but they can show up and boo to influence the university. They can boo to tell the university that they’re not ok with a 5th straight .500 or worse conference season. They can boo to tell the university that they aren’t ok with a coach going 0-7 against their biggest rival. Should the fans just muzzle themselves and stay silent? Sending emails to the athletic director that he’s never going to read doesn’t send a message. Raining down boos does. 

I’m not a fan of booing myself. I just won’t show up. I haven’t shown up in 5 years. I will continue to not show up until there looks to be tangible change for the better. My wife asks me every year if we want to get tickets and I tell her no. I think more and more people are saying no as seen by so many empty seats seen on tv prior to the pandemic. I remember Assembly Hall being packed. I remember going to watch IU play a ranked Iowa and the arena was only 3/4 full, and that was during the Crean era towards the end. I see people posting pics from the Miller era of fan attendance and it’s been poor. It will only get worse. I know the Big Ten network payout is great, but the lost revenue and fan apathy needs to be addressed. That’s why there needs to be a change. And the change has to be someone with some personality to be vocal and in the media to get butts back in the seats and the product has to be entertaining. Archie ball is boring to me. AND they have to win. It’s not an easy fix which is why IU has to get an established coach and can’t go with a mid-major coach or assistant. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,196]

Booing 19-22 yo young men isn't good for them, the school, recruiting or anyone. Just watch the players as they were walking off as AM was being accosted after the Rutgers loss. Who benefits from the looks on their faces? Doesn't matter that it was meant for AM, the players hear it as directed at their performance. Maybe it makes some simpleton alum feel tough and empowered, but it is just a sad look as an adult. Hope we move on from AM, but taking it out on the "product on the floor" is detestable.

This. I don't remember ever booing players or even coaches of sports teams. Ihave booed politicians. ;)
I also don't understand hatred of coaches/players as people based on their coacing/playing. I'm not saying people on this forum are that way, but I have seen it on FB/Twitter and not just with Indiana fans

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Hoosierfan2017 21,054]

13 minutes ago, Feathery said:

I’m not a fan of booing myself. I just won’t show up. I haven’t shown up in 5 years. I will continue to not show up until there looks to be tangible change for the better. My wife asks me every year if we want to get tickets and I tell her no. I think more and more people are saying no as seen by so many empty seats seen on tv prior to the pandemic. I remember Assembly Hall being packed. I remember going to watch IU play a ranked Iowa and the arena was only 3/4 full, and that was during the Crean era towards the end. I see people posting pics from the Miller era of fan attendance and it’s been poor. It will only get worse. I know the Big Ten network payout is great, but the lost revenue and fan apathy needs to be addressed. That’s why there needs to be a change. And the change has to be someone with some personality to be vocal and in the media to get butts back in the seats and the product has to be entertaining. Archie ball is boring to me. AND they have to win. It’s not an easy fix which is why IU has to get an established coach and can’t go with a mid-major coach or assistant. 

I honestly don't think the university cares if fans show up or not as long as IU sells the tickets. Fans weren't showing up before the pandemic but the program was still turning a profit. Unfortunately, booing is the only real way to get your point across. The university doesn't want those images out there.

Booing sucks. I don't feel bad for Archie when he gets booed because he's a grown man. He's getting paid millions of dollars to do a job, and he's failing miserably at it. I do feel bad for the players. They're good kids. They try most of the time, they just aren't very good. I think most of the boos are directed toward Archie, but when you're all on the court together that doesn't really make a difference. 

[HoosierAloha 30,026]

45 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

IU is hardly the only place where fans boo pathetic performance.  It never should've gotten to this point; IU should've put their big boy pants on and gotten serious long ago.  Indiana should've said "this is unacceptable here" instead of making excuses.  At Duke or UNC or pUKe, which even a Texas writer said is our rightful place, Miller would've already been gone.

It got to this point because Indiana let it.

The writer might live in Texas but I believe he is an IU alum..

[iu eyedoc 1,877]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I honestly don't think the university cares if fans show up or not as long as IU sells the tickets. Fans weren't showing up before the pandemic but the program was still turning a profit. Unfortunately, booing is the only real way to get your point across. The university doesn't want those images out there.

Booing sucks. I don't feel bad for Archie when he gets booed because he's a grown man. He's getting paid millions of dollars to do a job, and he's failing miserably at it. I do feel bad for the players. They're good kids. They try most of the time, they just aren't very good. I think most of the boos are directed toward Archie, but when you're all on the court together that doesn't really make a difference. 

Do you actually think the BOT puts weight into booing fans? They see dollars and cents. Do you believe if donors weren't ready to pony up the $10M buyout they would even be considering firing AM? Booing adversely effects the players and future recruits much more than any coach , AD, or BOT.

They are doing the math of how much those buyout donations will affect donations to other departments vs increased donations from a new coach exciting the boosters offsetting the money lost to a buyout. It's really that simple. In their minds they may even be convinced that they are making the decision largely free of financial incentive, but it is what drives them.

Edited March 13, 2021 by iu eyedoc

[Hoosierfan2017 21,054]

9 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Do you actually think the BOT puts weight into booing fans? They see dollars and cents. Do you believe if donors weren't ready to pony up the $10M buyout they would even be considering firing AM? Booing adversely effects the players and future recruits much more than any coach , AD, or BOT.

They are doing the math of how much those buyout donations will affect donations to other departments vs increased donations from a new coach exciting the boosters offsetting the money lost to a buyout. It's really that simple. In their minds they may even be convinced that they are making the decision largely free of financial incentive, but it is what drives them.

I think that the BOT puts weight into what a fifth Archie Miller season would look like. A fifth Archie Miller season looks like a 3/4 filled Assembly Hall, at best, raining down boos for the entire year. Thursday was the first game we've played in front of our fans all year and they got boo'd off the court. I don't see any way that that doesn't affect the BOT. Now imagine an entire season of that. It would get very ugly. All of our games are on TV. They don't want that broadcast throughout the country every game for an entire season. 

[Stuhoo 79,861]

Booing fans affect the bottom line; not in ticket sales but in donor and trustee morale. Big donors and trustees do not want to invest in a place that exudes sadness.