Archie. Miller. Fired.

[Chris007]

2 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

You serious? This is brought up every year during the Final Four. And there’s at least fans to provide some depth perception for that. Let’s try to be fair here. 

Yes huge stadiums always harder to shoot in because of openness of the area 

[lillurk]

I think WatShot is trying to say you hear that from broadcasters, coaches say things like “the shooters background is different.” But it seems a bridge farther to say in advance not just that you’re worried about the difference, but that you think your team will shoot worse.

Like say, “we’ve played in arenas before, shootaround helps, we gotta get shots up and get comfortable.” Fine.

[goldie wilson]

21 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Fran’s the only coach of the top ten teams in the conference who’s been on the job longer than Miller.

I agree with all your sentiments, although McCaffery, Izzo, Painter,  and Gard have all been in the Big Ten longer than Archie. It's definitely time for him to move on. Four years of painful basketball is enough for me.

 

[TheWatShot]

13 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

You serious? This is brought up every year during the Final Four. And there’s at least fans to provide some depth perception for that. Let’s try to be fair here. 

Are coaches of the Final Four teams saying it? Typically you don't hear coaches say anything that could be construed as a built-in excuse. I'm not surprised we've reached that point with Archie Miller, who will never go to a Final Four unless he buys a ticket. 

[coonhounds]

I think WatShot is trying to say you hear that from broadcasters, coaches say things like “the shooters background is different.” But it seems a bridge farther to say in advance not just that you’re worried about the difference, but that you think your team will shoot worse.
Like say, “we’ve played in arenas before, shootaround helps, we gotta get shots up and get comfortable.” Fine.

Exactly. Plus who has the balls to say they may struggle to shoot in any arena when they have struggled to shoot in their own damn gym the last 4 years. F out of here with that bs.

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[Hoosierfan2017]

I just think it’s funny for Archie to say after we went 7-43 from 3 over our past two games. Our players would struggle to hit water if they were shooting off a boat in the middle of the ocean. 

[IUrocker]

18 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I just think it’s funny for Archie to say after we went 7-43 from 3 over our past two games. Our players would struggle to hit water if they were shooting off a boat in the middle of the ocean. 

Yep. I understand the difficulties that come with playing in a larger stadium like that with the depth perception and larger area, etc...that stuff is indeed real...but for him to bring that up in the first place, knowing darn well he has a poor shooting team,  just looks like “hey just a heads up, when we start the game 0-9 from three and miss a lot of bunnies, it’s gonna be because we’re in Lucas Oil, not because it’s what we’ve done all year...”

[Hovadipo]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

Are coaches of the Final Four teams saying it? Typically you don't hear coaches say anything that could be construed as a built-in excuse. I'm not surprised we've reached that point with Archie Miller, who will never go to a Final Four unless he buys a ticket. 

We suck at shooting. Maybe saying “teams will struggle” means the playing field will be leveled?

[BGleas]

8 hours ago, Hardwood83 said:

I don't hate him personally, I hate the results. I assume he has given it his best and that simply hasn't been enough. So time to move on.

Same with Crean. He was a little odd, but I didn't mind that, until it became obvious he wasn't capable of consistently winning. 

WITHIN LIMITS I can tolerate an @$$hole, smarmy, boring or whatever coach. They aren't going to be my best friend so Just WIN. 

 

Sincere question, do we think any individual, or even group of players would have mattered? IU has had some talent the last few years. Certainly flawed/unbalanced rosters, but would Henry or Garcia or fill-in-the-blank have made Archie a success? I doubt it. More wins, no doubt, but IU doesn't just seem to be a player or two away from being there. It seems like a mess and Archie appears to be at a loss on how to correct it. 

Yes I do. Other than maybe lack of identity/culture, I think Archie's biggest issue at IU has been recruiting, not any type of strategy or X's/O's. I'm not saying IU doesn't have any talent, but IMO the current situation is directly tied to Archie not being able to recruit over guys like Durham and Phinisee, and recruiting a the guard/wing spots specifically. 

[Unexpectedflash]

39 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yes I do. Other than maybe lack of identity/culture, I think Archie's biggest issue at IU has been recruiting, not any type of strategy or X's/O's. I'm not saying IU doesn't have any talent, but IMO the current situation is directly tied to Archie not being able to recruit over guys like Durham and Phinisee, and recruiting a the guard/wing spots specifically. 

I disagree a little. Archie’s offensive system is not conducive to success in modern basketball. He doesn’t value three point shooting enough and I know i saw concerns about that from his time at Dayton. Most of the best teams are really good shooting teams. The last four years we consistently have at least two people that are terrible three point shooters. Archie’s system is all about drawing fouls. Drawing fouls is helpful but when it’s the only focus it leads to clogged paints and a lot of the bad offense that we’ve seen the last few years. The game is trending to four or five players on the court that can all shoot but Archie usually plays at least two that won’t even look at the basket outside of five feet. The inability to develop that stretch four has really hurt us.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Unexpectedflash

[rcbowla]

I disagree a little. Archie’s offensive system is not conducive to success in modern basketball. He doesn’t value three point shooting enough and I know i saw concerns about that from his time at Dayton. Most of the best teams are really good shooting teams. The last four years we consistently have at least two people that are terrible three point shooters. Archie’s system is all about drawing fouls. Drawing fouls is helpful but when it’s the only focus it leads to clogged paints and a lot of the bad offense that we’ve seen the last few years. The game is trending to four or five players on the court that can all shoot but Archie usually plays at least two that won’t even look at the basket outside of five feet. The inability to develop that stretch four has really hurt us.

Sad thing is I think Race could be that 4 with some development although it may now be too late for him.

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[Chris007]

9 hours ago, Unexpectedflash said:

I disagree a little. Archie’s offensive system is not conducive to success in modern basketball. He doesn’t value three point shooting enough and I know i saw concerns about that from his time at Dayton. Most of the best teams are really good shooting teams. The last four years we consistently have at least two people that are terrible three point shooters. Archie’s system is all about drawing fouls. Drawing fouls is helpful but when it’s the only focus it leads to clogged paints and a lot of the bad offense that we’ve seen the last few years. The game is trending to four or five players on the court that can all shoot but Archie usually plays at least two that won’t even look at the basket outside of five feet. The inability to develop that stretch four has really hurt us.

I somewhat agree that he doesn't value the 3 enough but my goodness the offense gets open 3's, we just suck at shooting. In the last two games, Al has been wide open, no one even in the 812 area code around him and airball. Never seen so many shots not touch the rim at all. Last game Al, Leal, Lander, Hunter, Thompson, Galloway, and Rob all had a 3 that didn't touch the rim or hit it so hard it came ricocheting back at them. 

[tortex28]

I somewhat agree that he doesn't value the 3 enough but my goodness the offense gets open 3's, we just suck at shooting. In the last two games, Al has been wide open, no one even in the 812 area code around him and airball. Never seen so many shots not touch the rim at all. Last game Al, Leal, Lander, Hunter, Thompson, Galloway, and Rob all had a 3 that didn't touch the rim or hit it so hard it came ricocheting back at them. 

Either recruit shooters or instill confidence in the players you have. It's the coach's job either way.

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[Chris007]

1 minute ago, tortex28 said:

Either recruit shooters or instill confidence in the players you have. It's the coach's job either way.

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Not disagreeing with that at all. I blame the recruiting. Been saying for 3 years to grab a pure shooter and our woes will be cured. A pure shooter would make everyone else shoot better. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Not disagreeing with that at all. I blame the recruiting. Been saying for 3 years to grab a pure shooter and our woes will be cured. A pure shooter would make everyone else shoot better. 

That doesn't actually help. Teams now really just don't care if we shoot 3s. Why would they? Even if we had shooters, our offense doesn't have the movement to get guys open. They're open because the defenses allow it. 

[tortex28]

That doesn't actually help. Teams now really just don't care if we shoot 3s. Why would they? Even if we had shooters, our offense doesn't have the movement to get guys open. They're open because the defenses allow it. 

Interesting point

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[Honkyman]

Shooters would obviously had made a big difference. Archie's recruiting approach has been to grab a star (Romeo and TJD) and surround him with some decent role players. He needed more than what he landed to improve--one very good player on a team isn't enough. More fundamentally, Archie's offensive scheme is stagnant.  And, for whatever reason the pack line defense isn't working--IU is ranked 12th in the conference in defense. Archie's coaching style lacks creativity and flexibility. In fairness, he has been hit by injuries. IU would have won a few more games with Brunk and Franklin healthy.

[pumpfake]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

Not disagreeing with that at all. I blame the recruiting. Been saying for 3 years to grab a pure shooter and our woes will be cured. A pure shooter would make everyone else shoot better. 

An argument could be made that Archie's biggest shortcoming has been recruiting.  Beyond one-year rental of RL and TJD, he's attracted no highly rated difference-makers, nor built the roster with badly needed skills (shooting, PG to name a couple).  His recruitment of non-Indiana prospects has been quite poor, IMO.

[Capt. Crimson]

23 minutes ago, pumpfake said:

An argument could be made that Archie's biggest shortcoming has been recruiting.  Beyond one-year rental of RL and TJD, he's attracted no highly rated difference-makers, nor built the roster with badly needed skills (shooting, PG to name a couple).  His recruitment of non-Indiana prospects has been quite poor, IMO.

I do think the promise of 'inside out' recruiting did hurt him in the long run. He's not from Indiana, and I think it's somewhat ignorant to believe focusing on one state is the right move in 2021. 

[Golfman25]

5 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I somewhat agree that he doesn't value the 3 enough but my goodness the offense gets open 3's, we just suck at shooting. In the last two games, Al has been wide open, no one even in the 812 area code around him and airball. Never seen so many shots not touch the rim at all. Last game Al, Leal, Lander, Hunter, Thompson, Galloway, and Rob all had a 3 that didn't touch the rim or hit it so hard it came ricocheting back at them. 

Do they practice shooting at all?  Granted the college game is different, but the only way a decent shooter in HS becomes a bad shooter in college is they don't practice and develop it.