Negativity Thread

[LamarCheeks]

5 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Again, my biggest gripe with Archie. Doesn't make sense to me. 

I don't get it, either ... My only thinking on that is that Justin has an influence over the rest of the guys and Archie worries about losing the team. Although I've heard/read that Devonte and Justin have had issues in the past, so who knows? ... Maybe Archie's just hoping that the dude will transfer and he won't have to deal with him anymore next year. ... But all that said, I'm not sure he's one of our five best players anyway, so why continue starting him? 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

For an easier look.



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[MikeRoberts]

I think when locked in, Justin Smith is a great defender in this league. Last year he didn't let Lamar Stevens do anything at Penn State. He was a HUGE reason we won the Michigan State game on the road because of his defense and effort. Last week he shut down Joe Wieskamp and it was great. 

I don't think he should play nearly as much as he does because of his offensive issues, but if he has a great matchup where he can shut down someone on defense then he should play 30ish minutes. But again, that would require 2 things. First, Archie would have to be willing to make that change. Second, Justin would have to be willing to accept that role. Those are BIG ifs. 

As for production, I would actually argue that his production shows he has NO reason to be frustrated with this offense. It allows him to be the second most productive player DESPITE his flaws. 

But your arguing based on gut/what you think you see vs real numbers.

 

His most productivity comes when he is at the 4 and there aren’t two other bigs clogging the lane. Our most productive lineup is with TJD at the 5 and Smith at the 4, but that lineup minutes are dwarfed by other inexplicable lineups.

 

So, despite what you feel, he is productive offensively despite the crappy lineups and situations he is put in

 

 

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[IUc2016]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

But your arguing based on gut/what you think you see vs real numbers.

His most productivity comes when he is at the 4 and there aren’t two other bigs clogging the lane. Our most productive lineup is with TJD at the 5 and Smith at the 4, but that lineup minutes are dwarfed by other much less lineups.

So, despite what you feel, he is productive offensively despite the crappy lineups and situations he is put in


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I think we will have to agree to disagree. I see a player who struggles with any real offensive skill and the lineups/situations don't make a difference. I see that his role this year is completely different than last year but it's the same struggles.

That isn't what you see and that is okay. 

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

But your arguing based on gut/what you think you see vs real numbers.

 

His most productivity comes when he is at the 4 and there aren’t two other bigs clogging the lane. Our most productive lineup is with TJD at the 5 and Smith at the 4, but that lineup minutes are dwarfed by other inexplicable lineups.

 

So, despite what you feel, he is productive offensively despite the crappy lineups and situations he is put in

 

 

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This. I'm not a huge Smith fan and I've been really hard on him, but the guy has been playing out of position all season offensively, and defensively while yes he's not always locked in, at least he has a "locked in" and when it's there he's one of the top defenders in the conference. That's more than most guys on this team can say defensively. 

Smith doesn't need to be benched, though I wouldn't mind him playing a few less minutes, but he needs to play the correct position. I've been saying it since last offseason, but Smith is a not wing, he's just not. He can't dribble, pass or shoot reliably, but he is a good slashing 4 and he can thrive there, especially when also locked in defensively. 

I'd love to see a Phinisee, pick your poison at the 2, Hunter, Smith, TJD lineup get extended run. 

[IUc2016]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

This. I'm not a huge Smith fan and I've been really hard on him, but the guy has been playing out of position all season offensively, and defensively while yes he's not always locked in, at least he has a "locked in" and when it's there he's one of the top defenders in the conference. That's more than most guys on this team can say defensively. 

Smith doesn't need to be benched, though I wouldn't mind him playing a few less minutes, but he needs to play the correct position. I've been saying it since last offseason, but Smith is a not wing, he's just not. He can't dribble, pass or shoot reliably, but he is a good slashing 4 and he can thrive there, especially when also locked in defensively. 

I'd love to see a Phinisee, pick your poison at the 2, Hunter, Smith, TJD lineup get extended run. 

I think you may want to try and convince Justin of this........

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I think you may want to try and convince Justin of this........

I think he knows it. He may not like it, but I think he knows it. If he didn't know it he would be bombing shots all those times he's wide open on the perimeter. But at the end of the day, it's not my job, it's Archie's job to put him in the right position. 

[TheWatShot]

So are we abandoning the narrative that Green and Davis are causing all these problems, and now assigning it to Smith because he was a Crean recruit? 

 

Seriously, I've never seen a scenario where a departed coach's players were made out to be such villains. Archie Miller is either the unluckiest guy in the world to be saddled with a bunch of divas, or he's just a complete douchebag to these guys behind the scenes. 

 

There are programs all over the country with players who don't buy in or aren't good teammates, yet nobody seems to have all the annual problems we do. I'm convinced now more than ever that the true cancer in that locker room is the one who's in charge (or supposed to be, anyway). 

[Chris007]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This. I'm not a huge Smith fan and I've been really hard on him, but the guy has been playing out of position all season offensively, and defensively while yes he's not always locked in, at least he has a "locked in" and when it's there he's one of the top defenders in the conference. That's more than most guys on this team can say defensively. 

Smith doesn't need to be benched, though I wouldn't mind him playing a few less minutes, but he needs to play the correct position. I've been saying it since last offseason, but Smith is a not wing, he's just not. He can't dribble, pass or shoot reliably, but he is a good slashing 4 and he can thrive there, especially when also locked in defensively. 

I'd love to see a Phinisee, pick your poison at the 2, Hunter, Smith, TJD lineup get extended run. 

Just so you know Smith is playing the position he wants the 3, he would like to play the 2 some. This was the compromise the staff made with him this summer as he was unhappy and difficult last season because he had to play the 4. Now after getting what he wants, he's still causing problems on the court, in the locker room.

[Chris007]

Just now, TheWatShot said:

So are we abandoning the narrative that Green and Davis are causing all these problems, and now assigning it to Smith because he was a Crean recruit? 

 

Seriously, I've never seen a scenario where a departed coach's players were made out to be such villains. Archie Miller is either the unluckiest guy in the world to be saddled with a bunch of divas, or he's just a complete douchebag to these guys behind the scenes. 

 

There are programs all over the country with players who don't buy in or aren't good teammates, yet nobody seems to have all the annual problems we do. I'm convinced now more than ever that the true cancer in that locker room is the one who's in charge (or supposed to be, anyway). 

I guess you skipped many pages and just started with these posts. 

[hoosierdaddy_72]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

Just so you know Smith is playing the position he wants the 3, he would like to play the 2 some. This was the compromise the staff made with him this summer as he was unhappy and difficult last season because he had to play the 4. Now after getting what he wants, he's still causing problems on the court, in the locker room.

If the staff is compromising with him then they deserve the trouble he is causing.  They are enablers.

[LamarCheeks]

3 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Just so you know Smith is playing the position he wants the 3, he would like to play the 2 some. This was the compromise the staff made with him this summer as he was unhappy and difficult last season because he had to play the 4. Now after getting what he wants, he's still causing problems on the court, in the locker room.

Good grief -- this gets more ridiculous all the time. He wants to play some shooting guard? I always thought one of the prerequisites for playing shooting guard is that you can shoot. HE CAN'T SHOOT! ... Holy cow. Man, I sure hope that by next year, he's someone else's problem. And by someone else, I mean a different coach at a different school. Not a different coach here. 

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Just so you know Smith is playing the position he wants the 3, he would like to play the 2 some. This was the compromise the staff made with him this summer as he was unhappy and difficult last season because he had to play the 4. Now after getting what he wants, he's still causing problems on the court, in the locker room.

I guess what I don't understand is, what leverage did Justin Smith have to demand these things? He's not draftable. He's not good enough to demand what position he should play. What was his leverage? "Play me on the wing and at the 2 or I'll sabotage your team?"

If this is all true, then Archie has set a horrible, horrible precedent that I'm not sure how he recovers from it. 

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I guess what I don't understand is, what leverage did Justin Smith have to demand these things? He's not draftable. He's not good enough to demand what position he should play. What was his leverage? "Play me on the wing and at the 2 or I'll sabotage your team?"

If this is all true, then Archie has set a horrible, horrible precedent that I'm not sure how he recovers from it. 

I think at the time there were questions whether Hunter would be able to play this season, Hunter still wasn't very good and no one knew anything about Franklin. Thompson had injury problems so I think the staff felt like they needed him to stick around this season, let him show what he can do to appeal to other schools as a grad transfer. 

[IUc2016]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think at the time there were questions whether Hunter would be able to play this season, Hunter still wasn't very good and no one knew anything about Franklin. Thompson had injury problems so I think the staff felt like they needed him to stick around this season, let him show what he can do to appeal to other schools as a grad transfer. 

Do you think there is a good chance he does leave this year? 

[HoosierDYT]

5 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think at the time there were questions whether Hunter would be able to play this season, Hunter still wasn't very good and no one knew anything about Franklin. Thompson had injury problems so I think the staff felt like they needed him to stick around this season, let him show what he can do to appeal to other schools as a grad transfer. 

Yep. This makes total sense

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think at the time there were questions whether Hunter would be able to play this season, Hunter still wasn't very good and no one knew anything about Franklin. Thompson had injury problems so I think the staff felt like they needed him to stick around this season, let him show what he can do to appeal to other schools as a grad transfer. 

To be clear, I'm not questioning you whatsoever and I really appreciate what you bring to the board. 

Just, none of this makes any sense to me. It's like two groups that don't like each other and are both negotiating for things that actively make themselves look worse. 

If Smith wants to be showcased, then the best way to do that is to be put in a position where he can succeed, play well, and impact winning. Playing out of position, and looking bad doing it, is not in his best interest whatsoever. 

For Archie, agreeing to play Smith out of position to appease him not only sets a horrible precedent for the rest of the team and the program and makes him look extremely weak, but it gives him a greater chance for another season that goes poorly, and not adjusting at all to move Smith back to where he could thrive just makes Archie look bad. 

They both end up looking terrible. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, HoosierDYT said:

Yep. This makes total sense

I mean, it makes sense to want to keep him. I get that. But none of the rest of it makes any sense. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Smith is quickly becoming one of my least favorite IU players in recent years. He sounds like a terrible player to have to coach and a terrible influence in the locker room. Archie should've gotten rid of him the second he tried 'compromising' on what position he plays like he's LeBron James. 

[Chris007]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

Do you think there is a good chance he does leave this year? 

I think after the Northwestern game Archie was heard yelling in the locker room that if you want to transfer then freaking transfer. I will sign your papers to whatever school you want. I'm guessing he was talking to Justin. Still doesn't make sense why he has played or started every game since.