Negativity Thread

[monskisprodigy 1,875]

A buddy sent me a screenshot from Inside Our Hell, I mean....Inside The Hall premium forum. Poster asked Bozich if Archie having his hands tied (in respct to discipline, handling of players, removal of players) was a potential story or just an excuse. Bozich responded that it isn't a potential story, implying that is it just that, an excuse.

Thought this was interesting, as it has been a topic of discussion on here. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,293]

UCLA is still a big time job though. They didn't hire Alford to lose and had big time recruits it just didn't work. UCLA I agree is down but they are not your normal ncaa program imo. Name another 3 plus championship team who just accepts mediocrity and is ok with staying there. When glass went to hire a new coach he said all the right things and at the time I felt hired a good coach. It just hasn't panned out but we still got 5 star recruits we just suck. I think it is coaching but who knows

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Alford kicked butt at UCLA compared to what Archie is doing at IU so far.

Cronin replacing Alford at UCLA proved much tougher than anyone expected. Cronin has zero momentum but he is a decent coach. Maybe he can build it up the hard way. They probably should have kept Alford, but the Lavar Ball situation and the fan hate ruined it all.


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[coonhounds 8,899]

Well we just jumped to the only thing more divisive than Archie’s performance. Shut er down mods

You must be speaking of Alford and if we should hire him. U are right

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[mdn82 25,510]

A buddy sent me a screenshot from Inside Our Hell, I mean....Inside The Hall premium forum. Poster asked Bozich if Archie having his hands tied (in respct to discipline, handling of players, removal of players) was a potential story or just an excuse. Bozich responded that it isn't a potential story, implying that is it just that, an excuse.
Thought this was interesting, as it has been a topic of discussion on here. 

I will respond by saying Bozich will not badmouth IU because they won’t let him or his press pass will be revoked on certain subjects. While I have no doubt he said that, I will bet my house he would have responded the same no matter the truth. That includes premium forums too. If you want an honest answer on that one ask Dan Dakich. He was a coach for many years at IU and also has plenty of friends still around campus. He doesn’t have to protect IU like others. Maybe people on here are wrong, but Dan has eluded to that on his show a few times.


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[mbredenk101 525]

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 
We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

You definitely make good points here. However, I would say it would be different if we were having this discussion after making the tournament but not making a deep enough run in the tournament. The problem is that with expectations not all that high, three years should be enough to put a good, consistent product on the floor. The only thing consistent right now is bad basketball. If I was mediocre to poor in my performance evaluations over a three year period, I shouldn't be surprised if my employer is looking to replace me. On the other hand, if I was replacing someone that couldn't meet very mild expectations, I would not be afraid of being treated the same if I were to actually meet or exceed the expectations set forth.

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[NashvilleHoosier 3,703]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I've been saying this forever. No coach who is successful at a Power 5 conference making a couple of million dollars is going to want to uproot his family, leave that money to come to IU knowing he has 3 years to make the tourney or be fired. He could stay at his school for the next 20 years and be fine. I just think as fans we look at Indiana differently than what other people do. 

I still think we check nearly every box as an elite job. Now if there are legs to the administration handcuffing a coach in certain ways that doesn't happen elsewhere, I would guess that's a huge check box against us in a potential coach's mind. I also have tended to agree with what you're saying here in that regardless of why a coach would be fired after 3 years, it will make it less likely another coach would uproot everything from an already well paying job. I've also argued that its pointless to talk about firing Archie this year b/c of the buyout. Needless to say, my thoughts have evolved a bit watching this 4 game stretch (call it a 3 game stretch as I could actually stomach the Maryland game). If the trigger were indeed pulled after this season, it likely only happens b/c we miss the tournament again. Surely a new AD and whoever else that is having conversations with potential candidates can get the message across that this didn't happen simply because we had some sort of requirement to make the tournament by year 3. This happened because by the end of year 3, no improvement was shown. We do have high expectations, we do expect not only tournaments but success in tournaments. We're willing to be patient, you're the guy we want, but as with any high level job, you have to show progress along the way. And I would also hope that high level coaches out there would look at our situation, understand that, and say to themselves....well, yeah, it shouldn't have taken 4 years to make a tournament. I'm up to that challenge. But, I could be very wrong too. 

[monskisprodigy 1,875]

8 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

I will respond by saying Bozich will not badmouth IU because they won’t let him or his press pass will be revoked on certain subjects. While I have no doubt he said that, I will bet my house he would have responded the same no matter the truth. That includes premium forums too. If you want an honest answer on that one ask Dan Dakich. He was a coach for many years at IU and also has plenty of friends still around campus. He doesn’t have to protect IU like others. Maybe people on here are wrong, but Dan has eluded to that on his show a few times.


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I personally am not a big fan of either, but wanted to share. 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

13 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

I personally am not a big fan of either, but wanted to share. 

I like Bozich's content. But good lord, nothing real is ever actually said about the state on Indiana basketball on that site. He controls a lot of peoples opinions with what he puts out and he could easily sway a large section of the fanbase by keeping it real. 

[MikeRoberts 6,998]

I've been saying this forever. No coach who is successful at a Power 5 conference making a couple of million dollars is going to want to uproot his family, leave that money to come to IU knowing he has 3 years to make the tourney or be fired. He could stay at his school for the next 20 years and be fine. I just think as fans we look at Indiana differently than what other people do. 

That’s kind of a selective way of looking at it. In that case, no coach would leave a school they were successful at as they could easily stay there and be safe. Safe isn’t what these guys thrive on.

Coaches have massive egos and want to fulfill that. There is without a doubt, except for a few, that Indiana is still a destination program. There is more evidence to support that then not.

Any coach that thinks that not making the tournament 3 years in a row and getting swept by our rival for 3 years and setting records for blowout losses and showing no signs of being able to build a successful team isn’t a coach we would want.

You’ve been suggesting for a long time that big fish don’t want to be here but recently acknowledged what I and others have said for a while - it’s not IU that they don’t want, a HUGE part of it is that we aren’t willing to pay for them to take the risk.

If you offer a big fish coach K or Calipari type money, we’re a player.




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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

Archie has to change the lineup. It’s his last hope. Go with Phinisee, Franklin, Hunter, TJD and Brunk

Nothing will change if we continue playing TJD and Brunk together.


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[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

32 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Nothing will change if we continue playing TJD and Brunk together.


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Why? TJD and Brunk play well together. The problem is when Smith is in the lineup with those two. That definitely clogs the middle because Smith has no outside game. Hunter primarily plays from 12ft out.

[Jeff_Boy_Ardee 1,311]

Why? TJD and Brunk play well together. The problem is when Smith is in the lineup with those two. That definitely clogs the middle because Smith has no outside game. Hunter primarily plays from 12ft out.

They play well together because we suck at shooting and they hustle and get offensive boards. But as far as trying to run a half court offense they’re not ideal. They’re basically the same player, same skill set, same game, with TJD just being better and more athletic. Brunk should have been a 6th man all year, but unfortunately we aren’t good enough to allow that. I think this goes along with what Chris was saying about Smith. If Smith were all on board with being a slasher/inside guy, I think an ideal lineup would be Rob, Armaan, Hunter, Smith, TJD with Brunk spelling the two bigs when they need it. Unfortunately we just aren’t very good, so I don’t think we can put in ideal lineups because we’re so inconsistent we can’t rely on anyone to score at any given point so we have to play the hot hand, which is more often than not no one.

 

I’ve been an Archie supporter for a long time, but just to let a few people say I told you so I am having my serious doubts. I still am of the belief we shouldn’t fire him until at least the end of next year, solely because I don’t want us to hire the next Archie Miller and then fire him after 3-4 years and then another one and continuing the cycle. I would like to give Archie some time if he can show improvement next year while constantly sending feelers out until we know for a fact we can get a big fish.

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

Why? TJD and Brunk play well together. The problem is when Smith is in the lineup with those two. That definitely clogs the middle because Smith has no outside game. Hunter primarily plays from 12ft out.

It doesn’t matter who is in. Archie’s offense makes it to where someone is always posting up where driving lanes should be. That’s why Rob can’t get to the rim. Because there is always a teammate in the way. Shooters wouldn’t change that. It’s an incredibly easy offense to guard and makes it useless to ever help off anyone. Even if we did have shooters, they’d never be open.


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[Ryno6284 2,644]

4 hours ago, monskisprodigy said:

A buddy sent me a screenshot from Inside Our Hell, I mean....Inside The Hall premium forum. Poster asked Bozich if Archie having his hands tied (in respct to discipline, handling of players, removal of players) was a potential story or just an excuse. Bozich responded that it isn't a potential story, implying that is it just that, an excuse.

Thought this was interesting, as it has been a topic of discussion on here. 

What if he was going the other way and was implying it's not a potential story, but it's absolutely a story?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

What if he was going the other way and was implying it's not a potential story, but it's absolutely a story?

Considering how big of pansies they are at ITH, they’d never care to make it a story. They will blow smoke up their butts because that’s their way into IU. It was the same under Crean.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

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[Hoosierfan2017 21,283]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Considering how big of pansies they are at ITH, they’d never care to make it a story. They will blow smoke up their butts because that’s their way into IU. It was the same under Crean.


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I wouldn't say they're pansies, they just know not to bite the hand that feeds them. They can't afford to rock the boat because they need the access. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Considering how big of pansies they are at ITH, they’d never care to make it a story. They will blow smoke up their butts because that’s their way into IU. It was the same under Crean.


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Do you ever step back to understand why things are the way they are or do you just spout off the first thought that runs through your head?


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[Chris007 43,895]

14 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

That’s kind of a selective way of looking at it. In that case, no coach would leave a school they were successful at as they could easily stay there and be safe. Safe isn’t what these guys thrive on.

Coaches have massive egos and want to fulfill that. There is without a doubt, except for a few, that Indiana is still a destination program. There is more evidence to support that then not.

Any coach that thinks that not making the tournament 3 years in a row and getting swept by our rival for 3 years and setting records for blowout losses and showing no signs of being able to build a successful team isn’t a coach we would want.

You’ve been suggesting for a long time that big fish don’t want to be here but recently acknowledged what I and others have said for a while - it’s not IU that they don’t want, a HUGE part of it is that we aren’t willing to pay for them to take the risk.

If you offer a big fish coach K or Calipari type money, we’re a player.




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Stevens didn't even let IU offer a number before he said no thanks. Donovan was OK at 9 but made the pool of money for his assistants so high that he knew IU didn't have that kind of money.

I've also been saying that the Athletic department doesn't have the money because they are borrowing all over campus. Now I know like most say they can just call a donor and ask for the money. But most donors have given a lot over the last 10 years. Also, you buy out Archie for 12 and then pony up 9 a year to the new coach. That is a lot of money. 

[Josh 12,621]

12 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Stevens didn't even let IU offer a number before he said no thanks. Donovan was OK at 9 but made the pool of money for his assistants so high that he knew IU didn't have that kind of money.

I've also been saying that the Athletic department doesn't have the money because they are borrowing all over campus. Now I know like most say they can just call a donor and ask for the money. But most donors have given a lot over the last 10 years. Also, you buy out Archie for 12 and then pony up 9 a year to the new coach. That is a lot of money. 

You gotta spend money to make money.  The billionaires know that.