(2019) SG Lester Quinones to Memphis

[Hornsby 1,856]

If IU misses both Watford and Quinones, that wouldn’t be good

I think we should of spent our time going after grad transfers. I dont think we were ever super serious players with either of these guys

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[BGleas 7,903]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Disagree.

While both are good basketball players, we need to get the right players and those who truly want to be at IU. If that's either of them? Great. If it's not either of them? That's fine too.

Now ... if IU misses on both Leal and Galloway, then I'd be concerned; but I doubt we will.

 

Completely agree with your point. The problem is who did IU miss out on that could have helped and might have wanted IU, while the staff was chasing Harris, Watford and Quinones? It's more about wasted time and opportunities.

There were numerous grad transfers out there at the guard/wing spots that were experienced, shot over 40% from 3 and averaged double figures. Some guys that really could have helped. Or even the Wyndam kid. He most likely would have jumped all over the chance to play at IU, but now he's gone. 

[8bucks 6,438]

Completely agree with your point. The problem is who did IU miss out on that could have helped and might have wanted IU, while the staff was chasing Harris, Watford and Quinones? It's more about wasted time and opportunities.
There were numerous grad transfers out there at the guard/wing spots that were experienced, shot over 40% from 3 and averaged double figures. Some guys that really could have helped. Or even the Wyndam kid. He most likely would have jumped all over the chance to play at IU, but now he's gone. 

See you hit on the point. If we miss on guys it does matter because the staff thought they would fit and invested time with them that they could not invest otherwise.

So for those who say it is no big deal to miss on these guys is crazy to me. Yes we got Brunk and he fits s big need but we have missed on a lot of first and second choices recently.

We were in a great spot early in the year. Winning and we got a 5* commit and we were in a good spot with another. Then we lose a ton of games and now it seems we are struggling to get recruits.

Sure we want guys that fit but that is the coaches job to find them and bring them in. They have recently struggled to do just that. It is fine to be pro IU or even pro Archie and still question our results.




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[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

3 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Honestly, I lost interest in Watford some time back and I just don't see Quinones as being a make or break player.  Would he help?  Probably, but IMO he's simply not that big of a difference maker.

Damezi SHOULD be the 6-6 shooter we are missing if he can figure things out this summer. Hopefully he's putting in the work.

[Bigred3588 1,535]

On 5/2/2019 at 1:07 PM, Free Jurkin! said:

 

They may not have watched him play, but he was a superstar, and he can sell that he knows how to navigate the path to the NBA in a way that almost no other college coach can. He also has NBA connections like no other coach. These guys may not remember him, but the current crop of NBA players revere Penny and will say good things about him. Having a coach in Mike Miller who recently won NBA titles with Lebron helps too.

The appeal completely makes sense to me. The question is whether he can deliver on what he's selling, and we'll figure that out this year.


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I'd say superstar is a bit of a stretch... He made the all-star game 4 times which puts him in the company of Shawn Marion, Paul Millsap, Latrell Sprewell, Rasheed Wallace, and about 20 players that these kids have never heard of. 

As far as navigating the path to the NBA in a way that almost no other college coach can... he was the national high school player of the year. It's not like he was struggling to get there and found a way. I'm pretty sure any coach can say, "oh, you want to get to the NBA? Just be the best player in the nation."

[Stuhoo 80,638]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree with your point. The problem is who did IU miss out on that could have helped and might have wanted IU, while the staff was chasing Harris, Watford and Quinones? It's more about wasted time and opportunities.

There were numerous grad transfers out there at the guard/wing spots that were experienced, shot over 40% from 3 and averaged double figures. Some guys that really could have helped. Or even the Wyndam kid. He most likely would have jumped all over the chance to play at IU, but now he's gone. 

 

Well ... that's the question, but let's identify what the staff's mindset seems to be:

• They worked hard on one grad transfer, and got him (Joey Brunk). Seems relevant that he is a two year player and from Indiana.
• They watched and met Wyndham, and didn't offer him. Doesn't seem like they thought he was worth a four year ride.
• For a few weeks they pushed hard for Harris, and for a few weeks they have been pushing hard for Quinones; seems that they think both are well worth a four year ride.
• They seem to have put a little time and effort into Watford, but not much.
• They seem to have put all but no effort into any one year grad transfers.

My takeaway? When Archie was hired he clearly stated that

1. He didn't think having all 13 scholarships in use was the optimum way to keep team chemistry. 
2. He would concentrate on Indiana and the Midwest
3. He wanted to be an old team, and one that was experienced in his system - program continuity as a key.

Sooo, With three Indiana kids in the fold we tried to add a fourth from wherever, but only if it was a player who would be around for awhile and develop within the program. What he's done so far this off-season is well in line with the three criteria listed above, and I'm guessing he thinks he already has Wyndam's skill set in Damezi. 

 

[BGleas 7,903]

2 minutes ago, Bigred3588 said:

I'd say superstar is a bit of a stretch... He made the all-star game 4 times which puts him in the company of Shawn Marion, Paul Millsap, Latrell Sprewell, Rasheed Wallace, and about 20 players that these kids have never heard of. 

As far as navigating the path to the NBA in a way that almost no other college coach can... he was the national high school player of the year. It's not like he was struggling to get there and found a way. I'm pretty sure any coach can say, "oh, you want to get to the NBA? Just be the best player in the nation."

That's factually accurate, but also a little misleading. He made the all-star team 4 out of his first 5 seasons and was well on his way to being around a 10-time all-star before injuries derailed his career. He was a superstar in the NBA before the injuries. 

[Bigred3588 1,535]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:02 AM, Aeggie said:

This is just ignorant. Penny was one of the biggest stars of his era just like Grant Hill and injuries shortened his career just like Grant Hill. Before that, he had a great NBA career which included a trip to the Finals. It just sounds stupid to say he never exceeded expectations like he was expected to be drafted 3rd overall out of high school. He wasn't. 

And Archie hasn't won a championship at the collegiate or NBA level either btw.

Never mind all that anyway because it could just as easily be Penny's personality that draws kids or something else. Who cares? I hope Lester chooses us, if he goes to Memphis or elsewhere I hope he does well but I don't care why and none of us will ever really know why anyway 

Lets be real. He went to the finals because Jordan left for two years. And Hardaway was considered the best high school player in the nation. Teams didn't pick high school players very often back then, and definitely not that high in the draft. If one-and-done didn't exist and Penny had the same accolades playing in this era, he would be top 3 and probably first overall.

[Bigred3588 1,535]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That's factually accurate, but also a little misleading. He made the all-star team 4 out of his first 5 seasons and was well on his way to being around a 10-time all-star before injuries derailed his career. He was a superstar in the NBA before the injuries. 

Yes, he had 4 good years and may very well have ended up being a star. But all 4 of those years occurred almost a decade before these kids were born. If you asked 10 random prospects to name 20 NBA players throughout history that they would consider to have been superstars, i'd be pretty surprised if a single one of them named Hardaway. If he hadn't been an AAU coach, most of them would probably respond with "who?"

[Old Friend 8,389]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Well ... that's the question, but let's identify what the staff's mindset seems to be:

• They worked hard on one grad transfer, and got him (Joey Brunk). Seems relevant that he is a two year player and from Indiana.
• They watched and met Wyndham, and didn't offer him. Doesn't seem like they thought he was worth a four year ride.
• For a few weeks they pushed hard for Harris, and for a few weeks they have been pushing hard for Quinones; seems that they think both are well worth a four year ride.
• They seem to have put a little time and effort into Watford, but not much.
• They seem to have put all but no effort into any one year grad transfers.

My takeaway? When Archie was hired he clearly stated that

1. He didn't think having all 13 scholarships in use was the optimum way to keep team chemistry. 
2. He would concentrate on Indiana and the Midwest
3. He wanted to be an old team, and one that was experienced in his system - program continuity as a key.

Sooo, With three Indiana kids in the fold we tried to add a fourth from wherever, but only if it was a player who would be around for awhile and develop within the program. What he's done so far this off-season is well in line with the three criteria listed above, and I'm guessing he thinks he already has Wyndam's skill set in Damezi. 

 

I'd say this is accurate.  My question (and this may sound odd) is whether or not Archie has moved on from what will be successful at Dayton to what will be successful at Indiana.  The kids he recruits cannot be cut from the same cloth at both schools.  I love the Brunk signing.  I do not love Damezi Anderson.  I love Franklin and Jackson-Davis.   I do not love Quinones, and I really don't know what I don't know about Watford.  But...at this point, I refuse to believe that ANY player is a make or break kid because we DO need to get old...and stay old.    With the right kids.    That's the trick in my mind, and I just don't feel it with Quinones.  Hopefully, I'm dead wrong if he decides to come here; and I wouldn't fault a kid one bit for going to play with Penny.   What concerns me?    Memphis is a lot more like Dayton than it is like Indiana, which is in part why I made the comment above.

[Bigred3588 1,535]

On 5/2/2019 at 1:08 PM, 8bucks said:

True but when we drive recruits around campus and town do we choose the best areas or the worst?

When Archie talks about his playing experience does he focus on what he did not do or what he did accomplish.

When a kid hears about Penny they find out he was good enough to have been to the NBA finals and have commercials with little penny character developed as well.

There are enough reasons to want to learn from a former NBA star, AAU coach and likable guy. I have been to Memphis and found the area i visited to be great.


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You really can't compare Memphis to Bloomington. It's one of the most dangerous cities in the US and the university is surrounded by 3 of the worst neighborhoods. I didn't know this when I typed my initial post, but Penny almost lost his career because he was hit by a stray bullet in Memphis.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,344]

13 minutes ago, Bigred3588 said:

Lets be real. He went to the finals because Jordan left for two years. And Hardaway was considered the best high school player in the nation. Teams didn't pick high school players very often back then, and definitely not that high in the draft. If one-and-done didn't exist and Penny had the same accolades playing in this era, he would be top 3 and probably first overall.

His team beat Michael Jordan the year they went to the finals. 

[BGleas 7,903]

8 minutes ago, Bigred3588 said:

Yes, he had 4 good years and may very well have ended up being a star. But all 4 of those years occurred almost a decade before these kids were born. If you asked 10 random prospects to name 20 NBA players throughout history that they would consider to have been superstars, i'd be pretty surprised if a single one of them named Hardaway. If he hadn't been an AAU coach, most of them would probably respond with "who?"

It's a package though, it's not one or the other. Yes, he got to know these kids personally because he was an AAU coach. But, there are hundreds of AAU coaches around the country, very few would have the pull that Hardaway has and he has that pull because he was an All-American college player and superstar in the NBA. 

 

[mdn82 25,510]

It's a package though, it's not one or the other. Yes, he got to know these kids personally because he was an AAU coach. But, there are hundreds of AAU coaches around the country, very few would have the pull that Hardaway has and he has that pull because he was an All-American college player and superstar in the NBA. 
 

And a big part of that is these kids parents. When they see Penny Hardaway they act different. So the kids in turn look more into it and realize what he was. He also has a 30 for 30 with Shaq. Those things add up.


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[RaceToTheTop 25,635]

3 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

If IU misses both Watford and Quinones, that wouldn’t be good

 

3 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

If IU misses both Watford and Quinones, that wouldn’t be good

?

We aren't the leader for either.  With Watford, we might be third or fourth,

[DChoosier 8,348]

28 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

 

?

We aren't the leader for either.  With Watford, we might be third or fourth,

Yep, Wat reached out when everything was blowing up (Bama fired Johnson, Wade cheating comes out, Duke shuffling around but they were also going after Hurt, etc) and we probably looked like a good back-up/emergency/insurance plan.

 The fact that he has not found the time for an official visit tells you all you need to know.  I have no idea but would bet he ends up at Bama as he seems to like the new coach and the PG stayed. Memphis is on the verge of getting a ton of talent but I would bet that he does not want to share the ball/limelight with 4 other guys.

[DChoosier 8,348]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Well ... that's the question, but let's identify what the staff's mindset seems to be:

My takeaway? When Archie was hired he clearly stated that

1. He didn't think having all 13 scholarships in use was the optimum way to keep team chemistry. 
2. He would concentrate on Indiana and the Midwest
3. He wanted to be an old team, and one that was experienced in his system - program continuity as a key.

Sooo, With three Indiana kids in the fold we tried to add a fourth from wherever, but only if it was a player who would be around for awhile and develop within the program. What he's done so far this off-season is well in line with the three criteria listed above, and I'm guessing he thinks he already has Wyndam's skill set in Damezi. 

 

Many good points but to me he does not seem to be intentionally following point 1 as he has offered a dozen guards (landing Franklin) and seemed pretty intent on using the scholarships.

Even though his”win-rate” for guards has been poor this year I’m glad he hasn’t gotten so desperate to fill the vacancies “no matter what” by going the Galon etc route.

[8bucks 6,438]

And a big part of that is these kids parents. When they see Penny Hardaway they act different. So the kids in turn look more into it and realize what he was. He also has a 30 for 30 with Shaq. Those things add up.

 

 

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This and it adds to his credibility. When we hired Archie many of us were glad we hired a former player because we think he can relate better to kids than a coach like Crean who did not play. Then when you add that he made the NBA it adds credibility. Then you add that he was an all star player, lottery pick etc and kids will take notice.

 

Eventually he will be measured by his coaching but for now this is an edge

 

 

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[Uspshoosier 45,674]

This and it adds to his credibility. When we hired Archie many of us were glad we hired a former player because we think he can relate better to kids than a coach like Crean who did not play. Then when you add that he made the NBA it adds credibility. Then you add that he was an all star player, lottery pick etc and kids will take notice.
 
Eventually he will be measured by his coaching but for now this is an edge
 
 
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It would be tough for 17-18 year olds like Lester to ignore Penny’s approach. It’s an approach that is new and fresh and honestly like no coach I have seen before. To me he comes off as an older brother figure instead of a father figure. I’m not saying that’s the wrong approach just different. If you are Lester or other recruits how many other coaches are riding around recruiting kids in this kind of van?

https://929espn.radio.com/articles/penny-hardaway-swag-van-appears-penny-mike-miller-rolling-high-style-penny-1-cent-van-now
At the end of they day his staying power will come down to his ability to coach and win in the tournament just like every other coach in the country


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[Uspshoosier 45,674]

It would be tough for 17-18 year olds like Lester to ignore Penny’s approach. It’s an approach that is new and fresh and honestly like no coach I have seen before. To me he comes off as an older brother figure instead of a father figure. I’m not saying that’s the wrong approach just different. If you are Lester or other recruits how many other coaches are riding around recruiting kids in this kind of van?

https://929espn.radio.com/articles/penny-hardaway-swag-van-appears-penny-mike-miller-rolling-high-style-penny-1-cent-van-now
At the end of they day his staying power will come down to his ability to coach and win in the tournament just like every other coach in the country


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Lets all try to bring the focus back to Quinones please me included


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