IU basketball becoming irrelevant

[HoosierSadaseci]

SIAP, looks like others are realizing IU basketball is becoming irrelevant.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2822411-indiana-hoosiers-fall-to-cbb-irrelevancy-continues-during-another-lost-season?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

[Stromboli]

Thanks.  I hate it.  

[LamarCheeks]

I still can't help but wonder how or if our fortunes would've changed if after the 2000-01 season, the AD (Doninger at the time?) would've gone up to Mike Davis and said, "Mike, we really appreciate what you did for us after we had to make the change with Bob, but we've decided to go in a different direction. ..." 

I think Davis is a decent coach and a really good man, but for him to be given the keys to the program at that point was IMO, a monumental mistake. He just wasn't ready. Hell, he interviewed at Delaware after Mike Brey left for Notre Dame and didn't get the job. So he wasn't good enough for Delaware and we're gonna let him run one of the top 5 programs in the history of college basketball? 

I remember at some point late in that interim season, hearing Dick Vitale squawk on ESPN: "C'mon Indiana -- do the right thing, baby, and remove the interim from Mike Davis' title. He's done enough to earn the job  permanently." ... I screamed at my TV: "STFU, Vitale and let us figure out who our coach will be!"

It was a case of getting caught up in the moment. Yes, Davis did a nice job in navigating us through that season, but you have to stop and look at the bigger picture: He was in no way, shape or form ready to run a program like ours. And although we did catch lightning in a bottle with next season's NCAA run, the subsequent years proved this. 

Of course, with our administration's propensity for botching things back then, we probably wouldn't even have made the right hire anyway. 

 

[Magnanimous]

Since Knight left:

- one coach who was out of his league here, couldn’t recruit, and couldn’t coach

- one coach who broke NCAA rules, recruited bad seeds, and left the program rebuilding from scratch within two years of arriving in Bloomington

- one coach who could barely coach, couldn’t manage a roster, and played off what he inherited into sticking around longer than he should have.

In summary, we’ve had three consecutive busts as coaches. Not complicated to see why we’re where currently are.

[JSHoosier]

The side effect of bad coaching hires made by an administration that doesn't care enough to get it right in the first place.

[SlamaJamaSisley]

#InArchWeTrust  

[bigrod]

In times like these, the saying comes to me: It's always darkest before the dawn.

The problem is that I keep thinking it can't get any darker and it just keeps on going.

I do think we will eventually look back on this year as an anomaly. We were in much worse shape than most of us wanted to believe when CAM took over and his system is 180 degrees from what Crean had. This off-season is critical to the future though.

[Magnanimous]

30 minutes ago, bigrod said:

In times like these, the saying comes to me: It's always darkest before the dawn.

The problem is that I keep thinking it can't get any darker and it just keeps on going.

I do think we will eventually look back on this year as an anomaly. We were in much worse shape than most of us wanted to believe when CAM took over and his system is 180 degrees from what Crean had. This off-season is critical to the future though.

Setting a foundation is the hardest part of a rebuild. We’ve also come up on the short end of games a lot this year, but there have been very few we’ve been completely uncompetitive in, especially against average teams. This team has lost four games by 3 points or less and another one in overtime. Granted, we’ve had a lot of close wins as well, but if two or three of those losses go the other way, we’re feeling a lot more confident about the state of the program.

If we beat Maryland by one instead of losing by three, or beat Purdue last week, or if the tip-in against Arkansas goes our way, are we really that much better of a team than we are today? Not really, but people wouldn’t be pitching a fit in the middle of a rebuild. It’s the long game we should be focusing on. Yes, winning every game possible is nice, but just missing the tournament this year vs. sneaking in and then getting bounced early is going to make little difference for year four of Archie’s tenure.

[Naturalhoosier]

1 hour ago, bigrod said:

In times like these, the saying comes to me: It's always darkest before the dawn.

 

We must be in the northernmost part of Alaska in the dead of winter. 

[pumpfake]

That is a good example of using a lot of hyperbole in the headline for a reasonably balanced article (and perhaps why bleacher report is often given little credibility).

I don't have any major quibbles with what was written, but it didn't read like it was written by someone with much first hand knowledge or experience about a lot of it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Can't argue with the article too much other than the "veteran leadership" of Green and Smith next year.

What else is different about that list of blue bloods? Consistent, high level coaching in the time frame they use:

Duke: Coach K

UNC: Roy

Kansas: Self 

Kentucky: Cal for most of it

UCLA: Howland for most of it. I bet UCLA fans are wondering why they ran Howland off after the recent circus. 

If Archie is the guy we all think/hope he is, those stats will look very different in the next 10-15 year period.

 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

I still can't help but wonder how or if our fortunes would've changed if after the 2000-01 season, the AD (Doninger at the time?) would've gone up to Mike Davis and said, "Mike, we really appreciate what you did for us after we had to make the change with Bob, but we've decided to go in a different direction. ..." 

I think Davis is a decent coach and a really good man, but for him to be given the keys to the program at that point was IMO, a monumental mistake. He just wasn't ready. Hell, he interviewed at Delaware after Mike Brey left for Notre Dame and didn't get the job. So he wasn't good enough for Delaware and we're gonna let him run one of the top 5 programs in the history of college basketball? 

I remember at some point late in that interim season, hearing Dick Vitale squawk on ESPN: "C'mon Indiana -- do the right thing, baby, and remove the interim from Mike Davis' title. He's done enough to earn the job  permanently." ... I screamed at my TV: "STFU, Vitale and let us figure out who our coach will be!"

It was a case of getting caught up in the moment. Yes, Davis did a nice job in navigating us through that season, but you have to stop and look at the bigger picture: He was in no way, shape or form ready to run a program like ours. And although we did catch lightning in a bottle with next season's NCAA run, the subsequent years proved this. 

Of course, with our administration's propensity for botching things back then, we probably wouldn't even have made the right hire anyway. 

 

Nice post and I completely agree.  It all started with the Davis hire.  

[ap2345]

I still can't help but wonder how or if our fortunes would've changed if after the 2000-01 season, the AD (Doninger at the time?) would've gone up to Mike Davis and said, "Mike, we really appreciate what you did for us after we had to make the change with Bob, but we've decided to go in a different direction. ..." 
I think Davis is a decent coach and a really good man, but for him to be given the keys to the program at that point was IMO, a monumental mistake. He just wasn't ready. Hell, he interviewed at Delaware after Mike Brey left for Notre Dame and didn't get the job. So he wasn't good enough for Delaware and we're gonna let him run one of the top 5 programs in the history of college basketball? 
I remember at some point late in that interim season, hearing Dick Vitale squawk on ESPN: "C'mon Indiana -- do the right thing, baby, and remove the interim from Mike Davis' title. He's done enough to earn the job  permanently." ... I screamed at my TV: "STFU, Vitale and let us figure out who our coach will be!"
It was a case of getting caught up in the moment. Yes, Davis did a nice job in navigating us through that season, but you have to stop and look at the bigger picture: He was in no way, shape or form ready to run a program like ours. And although we did catch lightning in a bottle with next season's NCAA run, the subsequent years proved this. 
Of course, with our administration's propensity for botching things back then, we probably wouldn't even have made the right hire anyway. 
 

That’s why you don’t let players make the hire for you as an AD. If Fife and the other players didn’t threaten to transfer then Davis probably wouldn’t have gotten the job full time.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[TXHoosierDaddy]

27 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Can't argue with the article too much other than the "veteran leadership" of Green and Smith next year.

What else is different about that list of blue bloods? Consistent, high level coaching in the time frame they use:

Duke: Coach K

UNC: Roy

Kansas: Self 

Kentucky: Cal for most of it

UCLA: Howland for most of it. I bet UCLA fans are wondering why they ran Howland off after the recent circus. 

If Archie is the guy we all think/hope he is, those stats will look very different in the next 10-15 year period.

 

A few of these programs made bad hires before only to realize it and make sure the next one was a home run. We have had a chance at hiring four coaches since Knight and not one was ever going to be that home run hire. Sad. 

UNC - Dougherty was a disaster. Hired Roy

Kentucky - Gillespie was a mess. Hired Cal

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Just now, TXHoosierDaddy said:

A few of these programs made bad hires before only to realize it and make sure the next one was a home run. We have had a chance at hiring four coaches since Knight and not one was ever going to be that home run hire. Sad. 

UNC - Dougherty was a disaster. Hired Roy

Kentucky - Gillespie was a mess. Hired Cal

True - some other programs were much better about cutting bait early when they knew a guy wasn't right. The IU administration has been dysfunctional in their hiring/firing decisions.

[Stromboli]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

What else is different about that list of blue bloods?

 

Rampant cheating?

 

It is weird that we have this conversation, and it's taboo to mention the sustained success gained through cheating.  If I recall, the text messages by Sampson would have been legal were he not already on probation from his previous job, and the bigger issue was that he was not forthcoming during the investigation.  Indiana did nothing to cheat, pay recruits, anything.  The phone calls/texts were impermissible only as to Sampson.  As we've seen, the self-sanctions meted out by IU were worse than anything that has happened to those other schools, despite their transgressions being several orders of magnitude worse.  Why can an article like that be written without specifically referencing what we know of how Self builds a roster?  Or the academic sham that UNC had going?  (Gonna whine here...)  It's not fair.  

 

And seriously, I get that it's been 30 years since our last championship.  Do you know what you get if you earn a banner every 30 years?  Blueblood status.  Kansas is at 3 in what, 80 years?  I can do averages.  They won in 52, 88, and 08.  Separated by 36 years and 20 years.  UCLA has a record 11, but 10 of those came from that window when we lumped coaching praise on Wooden for the team that Sam Dilbert (Edit:  err... Gilbert.  Leaving it.)  purchased.  Why isn't that mentioned?  UCLA has one otherwise, in 95.  Duke is the hotness right now, but it was done under one coach.  Kentucky, an impressive program, besmirched their name when they hired Calipari.  

 

Anyway, we might be the worst blue blood you've ever heard of... but you have heard of us.  Meaning at least we still get mentioned.  Our program is still insanely valuable.  This year has really been a kick in the nuts.  Everybody is ready to let us back in the conversation.  Then we go on a little 7 week siesta.  

 

Proper respect to everyone else holding their tongues on this.  "But we don't cheat like all the others" is definitely an excuse.  But sometimes the excuse is the reason, or part of it.  I've read many times that we'd have won big with Sampson.  Maybe/probably.  But the same athletic department everyone seems to revile also made the call that Indiana will run a clean program.  At the end of the day, I'm okay with that.  Things might be changing.  One-and-dones are ending.  FBI stepped in where the NCAA wouldn't, and might clean it up a little (it will never be perfect).  We might have one of the great young coaches (TBD), at a time when Duke/UNC/KU/UK are likely closer to a transition.  We even got rid of some drop ceilings.  Maybe we're set up nicely for the future, and can enter a new era with our integrity--and blueblood status--intact.  

 

 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

 

We even got rid of some drop ceilings.  

 

You buried the lede!

[MoyeNeeded]

9 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

A few of these programs made bad hires before only to realize it and make sure the next one was a home run. We have had a chance at hiring four coaches since Knight and not one was ever going to be that home run hire. Sad. 

UNC - Dougherty was a disaster. Hired Roy

Kentucky - Gillespie was a mess. Hired Cal

Giving up on CAM a little early. Patience is not a virtue held by most of our fans.

[mark1981]

Was listening to some sports talk radio at lunch in Louisville. They sound exactly like we do.  Fan base is starting to unravel due to the streak.

[Josh]

Since 1940, we've been to the Final Four every decade except the 60's.  Unless we make it there this year (lol) we can add another missed decade to that list.  IU basketball has been destroyed.