IUBB @ Duke- 11/27 @ 9:30

[biteoftheapple]

He needs a confidence boost.....somehow. Sitting him will completely deflate him.

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, biteoftheapple said:

He needs a confidence boost.....somehow. Sitting him will completely deflate him.

You do not let a guy playing that badly and with that little effort keep playing because his feelings will be hurt if you bench him. 

[Stuhoo]

44 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

I have a feeling since McRoberts made his way back last night, he will start against Northwestern and Al will stay in the starting lineup, leaving Justin on the bench to start. I could see Rob, Al, Romeo, Zach, and Juwan. 

 

It's interesting because right now six of our top seven players are wings or smaller. The players you listed are currently our most effective five IMO. Maybe DeRon gets back into the starting lineup conversation?

[Alford Bailey]

18 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

I made a big deal about this after UC Davis. My observation was that the last few games IU's EFFORT seems lack-luster and then last night they looked scared. Like Jr High playing the Varsity, scared.

I am not crushed by losing this game. Duke was coming off a loss, were at home and are simply better than IU. That is a recipe for an "L". I am crushed that IU didn't compete at all. I don't claim to know the cause or solution for this, but I think any objectivity at all leads you see that, so far, they are waaaayy under-performing talent level. 

Agree

[Bowhunter]

1 hour ago, Stromboli said:

This is a technicality, but whatever.

 

I'm guessing Justin is still going to start, because he's our jump ball guy.  Whether or not he sees a reduction in minutes is something else.  

I don’t think Jump ball means much

[cthomas]

I would expect that a deeper bench as the team gets healthy will mean a shorter leash for unproductive play. We have yet to see a fully healthy Thompson and Hunter figured to be a rotation player as well. You play with who you have, but it is unreasonable in my opinion to completely discount the toll the injuries have taken on this team. All that said, I'm still pissed with last night's outcome.

[Alford Bailey]

6 minutes ago, cthomas said:

I would expect that a deeper bench as the team gets healthy will mean a shorter leash for unproductive play. We have yet to see a fully healthy Thompson and Hunter figured to be a rotation player as well. You play with who you have, but it is unreasonable in my opinion to completely discount the toll the injuries have taken on this team. All that said, I'm still pissed with last night's outcome.

Injuries have been huge. Hunter should be getting Durhams minutes. Several guys arent 100% yet.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I don’t think Jump ball means much

He’s been losing the majority of those too. Lol

Now let’s have pure comedy and put “Phone book” Davis on the jump.

I kid guys. Don’t all come at me at once now.


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[Southside]

On 11/28/2018 at 1:27 AM, Brass Cannon said:

Lol yeah because the **** poor play just started tonight. 

Duke is the favorite for the NC. They have 5 star talent at every position, and the best coach in the league. 

IU is not ranked, has one 5 star, and have huge injury issues. 

We competed with Marquette just fine, but Duke is on a whole other level.

It's just funny to see all the folks expect that we're all of sudden going to be a top 5 team this early in the season with the addition of one 5 star.

On 11/28/2018 at 1:50 AM, Bailey7878 said:

We may lose the next four games. Yeah lets just relax.

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It's not like being a chicken little sky is falling guy is going to help anything. Getting thumped sucks, but at least it was early, on the road, and to arguably the best team in the nation. We'll improve a lot throughout this season, but to expect us to go on the road and beat a top team with the injuries we have, is just silly. 

 

[Brass Cannon]

19 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Duke is the favorite for the NC. They have 5 star talent at every position, and the best coach in the league. 

IU is not ranked, has one 5 star, and have huge injury issues. 

We competed with Marquette just fine, but Duke is on a whole other level.

It's just funny to see all the folks expect that we're all of sudden going to be a top 5 team this early in the season with the addition of one 5 star.

It's not like being a chicken little sky is falling guy is going to help anything. Getting thumped sucks, but at least it was early, on the road, and to arguably the best team in the nation. We'll improve a lot throughout this season, but to expect us to go on the road and beat a top team with the injuries we have, is just silly. 

 

Conveniently forgetting we struggled against 2 cupcakes I see

[Southside]

21 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Conveniently forgetting we struggled against 2 cupcakes I see

when you run a 3 guard line up, and you have no guards to sub because of injury, you're going to struggle.

take a look at the minutes played in those two games. Morgan didn't come of the floor at all vs UCD, and Durham (38 min), Phinesee (36), and Langford (39) barely got a rest. 

UTA wasn't that much different, but at least Durham was subbed for Fitzner (who went 0-3).

Until we get guys back, guys are going to get worn out, and this team is going to struggle. It's not rocket science.

[HinnyHoosier]

Hey Irish, what's with all the logic?!


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[HoosierX]

5 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

when you run a 3 guard line up, and you have no guards to sub because of injury, you're going to struggle.

take a look at the minutes played in those two games. Morgan didn't come of the floor at all vs UCD, and Durham (38 min), Phinesee (36), and Langford (39) barely got a rest. 

UTA wasn't that much different, but at least Durham was subbed for Fitzner (who went 0-3).

Until we get guys back, guys are going to get worn out, and this team is going to struggle. It's not rocket science.

Look I really like Archie and think he is the guy for the next 20 years.  However, it drove me nuts when Crean apologists constantly grabbed onto anything they could to try to defend the guy.

Fatigue is a poor excuse for us playing terrible in the first half against UC Davis or Duke.  Plus you have plenty of coaches that have been pretty successful running 7-8 man rotations.

I don't think "fatigue" explains away many of our current issues.

[ray]

18 hours ago, moyemayhem said:

Here's a nice and optimistic article on IU basketball and its fans from a Duke writer.  This thread needs a little positivity...

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/11/28/18115815/a-word-for-our-indiana-friends-duke-basketball

That was a wonderful article.  

At least one fan of Duke, which is prominently at the pinnacle of college basketball and has been for a long while, realizes two things: how important Indiana University is to college basketball AND how important college basketball is to the state of Indiana.  

The writer understands the value of Indiana University returning to relevance in college basketball.  While some of Indiana's own fans are (rightfully) tired of waiting for that to come to fruition, it is important to continue to be patient with any new coach.  As this Duke fan surely can recall, it took Coach K a few seasons to bring Duke to where it is today and has been for some time.  Coach K in his first two season at Duke suffered 30 losses compared to the 27 victories.  In Coach K's third year, he improved his record at Duke to 38-47.  It wasn't until Coach K's fourth year at Duke when he finally broke the above-500 mark (62 wins to 57 losses).  It usually takes time, unless you walk into a program like Brad Stevens did where he took over a very stable Butler team that reached the NCAA semi-final game the season before his arrival...and, if I may add, where the transition from Lickliter's coaching style to Steven's coaching style may have been easier for returning players (due to the fact Stevens and Lickliter spent a number of years in the same locker room...even roomed together as assistant coaches at Butler).

I'm not saying Coach Miller will bring Indiana to where it once was in college basketball, but I'm willing to give ANY coach a chance to prove he is.  In the early part of any coach's second season, especially sitting at 5-2, isn't the time to start demanding drastic changes to the staff.

[Brass Cannon]

6 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

when you run a 3 guard line up, and you have no guards to sub because of injury, you're going to struggle.

take a look at the minutes played in those two games. Morgan didn't come of the floor at all vs UCD, and Durham (38 min), Phinesee (36), and Langford (39) barely got a rest. 

UTA wasn't that much different, but at least Durham was subbed for Fitzner (who went 0-3).

Until we get guys back, guys are going to get worn out, and this team is going to struggle. It's not rocket science.

So playing big minutes in the UCD game is why we got humiliated for the first 35 minutes. But the las 5 minutes when they should have been their most exhausted they blew them out like 17-3. 

Doesnt really make sense

[Southside]

11 hours ago, HoosierX said:

Look I really like Archie and think he is the guy for the next 20 years.  However, it drove me nuts when Crean apologists constantly grabbed onto anything they could to try to defend the guy.

Fatigue is a poor excuse for us playing terrible in the first half against UC Davis or Duke.  Plus you have plenty of coaches that have been pretty successful running 7-8 man rotations.

I don't think "fatigue" explains away many of our current issues.

Injury is the main issue right now. Fatigue is just one of the products. We all knew we would rely on RL, but to have RP be thrust into this many minutes is tough. I'm not an Archie apologist at all. I just have lower, and realistic expectations because of the injuries. Most teams that run a small (#s, not height) line up, have at least subs that can pop in and let just about every player get a breather. At guard, running 3, we do not. I expect Morgan to be in shape, and be able to hold his own if forced into big minutes, but you're playing with fire when you have that situation with 4-5 starters. Especially 2 true freshmen. 

10 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

So playing big minutes in the UCD game is why we got humiliated for the first 35 minutes. But the las 5 minutes when they should have been their most exhausted they blew them out like 17-3. 

Doesnt really make sense

Honestly, we lucked out late in the 2H. UCD used 11 kids, and were fresh and accurate early. Our crowd finally came alive in the second when we got some stops. We had three 3pt shots in a row, or close to being in a row IIRC, which turned the game. The rest were free throws for the most part (which we made thank god). 

In short, we played a team that over achieved big time in the first half. Talent and a bit of luck overcame a team that was playing beyond themselves.

If you can't look at the logged minutes of each player, and understand the impact of 3 games in 6 days, and 4 in 9 days, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a simple fact of B-Ball., and actually a much simpler fact of playing any sport.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Rofl. Thanks it’s been a while.


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[Maedhros]

11 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Honestly, we lucked out late in the 2H. UCD used 11 kids, and were fresh and accurate early. Our crowd finally came alive in the second when we got some stops. We had three 3pt shots in a row, or close to being in a row IIRC, which turned the game. The rest were free throws for the most part (which we made thank god). 

In short, we played a team that over achieved big time in the first half. Talent and a bit of luck overcame a team that was playing beyond themselves.

If you can't look at the logged minutes of each player, and understand the impact of 3 games in 6 days, and 4 in 9 days, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a simple fact of B-Ball., and actually a much simpler fact of playing any sport.

UC Davis played four games in just six days. They played an overtime game in Arlington against TAMCC on the 17th, then had to get right back on the court the very next day for UT Arlington. They had just one day off to travel from Texas back to California for a home game on the 20th, then had to fly to Indiana for a road game on the 23rd.

Sure, our rotation is shorter than theirs due to injuries, but that's a marginal difference of a few minutes per game. At best I'll look at that schedule and let you call it a wash. It certainly doesn't make me think one team being fresh and well rested is the reason why UC Davis was able to hold onto a lead for over 30 minutes of a game in Assembly Hall.

[Bobman1]

It’s UC-Davis and UT-Arlington. Yes it’s important to treat every game with the same importance but the team’s not gonna come out with the same intensity in those games as they do against the Marquette’s and Duke, they’re just not going to. While it would’ve been much more pleasing to see the Hoosiers come out and win by 30, it didn’t happen but a double digit win still happened. We were undermanned and had a looming matchup vs Duke; the team turned it on at the end and won. I for one, have moved on from those games and have looked at Arkansas, Duke, and Marquette as a sample size to grade this team.

Archie’s got as much talent as anyone in the Big Ten this year and we can all say that we were at least satisfied with his coaching job last season. Relax and let’s take it to Northwestern on Saturday. I have a feeling a lot of us will have a much better attitude towards this team after we blow the doors off the Wildcats in Assembly Hall.


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[Southside]

13 hours ago, Maedhros said:

UC Davis played four games in just six days. They played an overtime game in Arlington against TAMCC on the 17th, then had to get right back on the court the very next day for UT Arlington. They had just one day off to travel from Texas back to California for a home game on the 20th, then had to fly to Indiana for a road game on the 23rd.

Sure, our rotation is shorter than theirs due to injuries, but that's a marginal difference of a few minutes per game. At best I'll look at that schedule and let you call it a wash. It certainly doesn't make me think one team being fresh and well rested is the reason why UC Davis was able to hold onto a lead for over 30 minutes of a game in Assembly Hall.

UCD played 11 guys. Their bench accounted for 27% of minutes vs IU. IU played 8, and our bench 11.5%. 

UCD played at least 10 guys in each of those games. IU played 7-8 in the 3 leading up to Duke.