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LSU about to go down to Houston. Rough day for the vaunted SEC. Eat s*** Paul.

My wife and I are revisiting our honeymoon spot, Memphis (we’re foodies, not for Elvis lol). We were at Rendezvous for lunch- another guest stopped me. He told me he was a massive Ohio State fan, and was so happy for IU (I had my IU and shirt on), and hoped it was IU vs OSU every year for the title. He found me on his way out, fist bumped me and said “hope IU kicks some @$$”. First time I’ve met a decent OSU guy, and first time I’ve had a positive out of state football conversation lol!!

FWIW

Taking advantage of the system? Do they mean participating in the American free market as our judicial branch of government has decided they are able to? Lol. What legislation would they like to see passed on their own earning potential? They have a skillset worth paying for. It's really that simple.

Go watch Div 3. Plenty of good hard working players there operating on that basic system. In fact many even pay for their own college. I know they would appreciate your support.

I don’t care what anyone says, the Pop Tarts bowl trophy doubling as a functional toaster is cool af

Was in scouting for not quite 12 years when I got out of college a million or so years ago. Got out of it and into normal life late 90’s and strictly a hobby since then. But the tools available are so good and readily accessible now and combined with this little spot to scribble my thoughts that it kind of feeds my addiction because I absolutely love it.

If paying the players wasn't worth it, the schools wouldn't do it. Very simple. The players are a huge part of the equation just like the university brands are important.

I have a Trentyn Flowers story that some of the MOD’s might remember from a few years back: When Woody was recruiting Rakease Passmore I went to see him and Combine Academy his junior year at a showcase event. Trentyn Flowers was a teammate of his that year, something like the 4th high school he’d gone to. By blind luck I ended up sitting next to Flowers’ parents. Figured that out when he came over and gave Mom a hug. They couldn’t have been nicer folks. They talked my ear off the entire game. When I asked about his recruitment, because what the hell, Mom said that if it was purely a basketball decision it would be Creighton because they loved McDermott, they loved the facilities and the offense and Trent felt really comfortable there. But, it wasn’t going to be Creighton because, as Dad flat out told this stranger, “They don’t have nearly enough money.” He made it 100% clear that the biggest check was the only factor. He thought it was gonna be KU but the process was ongoing. They were as transactional as it gets. Then U of L swept in with, presumably, the biggest check and Flowers reclassed to ‘23 and committed. He was on campus for a couple of months before he split for the Australian League. So, I believe he’s 20 and has played for 4 high schools, was on a college campus, played in the Australian League and has been with a couple of NBA orgs. Long way of saying, if you were gonna bet on what 2-way guy would break the barrier and take the college money and run, this is probably your guy. Here’s the thing: he really looks the part and he’s a talented kid but he’s not particularly good. He flashes everything you want but with the exception of a short stretch in the ABL he’s never actually done it anywhere. If DDV is looking at this, ok, I guess, but I really don’t know what you should be expecting.

It absolutely stinks for the college game, but unfortunately IUBB is going to have to play the game. This means considering if these guys are any good and worth the money. I don't know if this player is. As Coach Cig once said: "You tell me what the rules are, and I'll thrive within the rules." Just eyeballing this, two-way players make around ~$650K, and if they have no hope to get called up from the G League to the NBA I can see why they might want to get switch to college and use up any eligibility they have left to get ~$1M+ per season. And the guys who are just on G-League contracts don't make much at all and I'd think all of them would prefer college ball. But yea, I'll say it again, it stinks for the college game.

In the 70's and 80's it was fine. But now with the billions of dollars in television and ad revenue they absolutely were being used to make millions and millions with very little in return. (Yes, a scholarship and an apartment is very little in the grand scheme of things) It's been a whole different game for a while now.

If you did that programs would just spend the same money for the top D2/D3 players. You’re missing that college fans root for good college teams, and to be a good team you need good players, and those good players are rare and worth a lot of $, to the tune of $15-40M for a football roster. We can trot out walk-ons for IUFB and IUBB, we will stink, and no one will go to games despite the name on the front of the jersey.

IU pays about $20 million a year in athletic scholarships (according to TDH). Schools fund those differently (it can get really tricky at lower levels), but I’d imagine most of IU’s comes from our massive TV deals and things like that. Do with that what you will. This debate doesn’t really interest me one way or the other because it isn’t changing and likely will only get crazier. Adapt or die.

Pre-NIL/rev share players were paid much less than they were worth, which is by definition taking advantage of them.

The name on the front of the jersey is what sells not individual players in college

Letting a few hundred kids go to school for free costs the school nothing. Meanwhile the players are bringing in millions and millions of dollars for the schools. While ideally there would be more regulation, players deserve to get paid more than a free scholarship and an apartment and I'm glad they are finally getting it. Feel free to keep that 1980's mindset though.

Seems like a manufactured distinction. It’s been happening for a couple years and people have mostly rolled with it. Most here cheered when Woody loaded up his last season and we all knew what they were paid for. Your last paragraph is what is going to blur the lines beyond all recognition and upset people, including prominent coaches and/or ADs. Can you imagine the press conference someone like Hurley will have if his #1 seeded Huskies get bounced by a team that picks up in February a dominant center who has played in the NBA before?

I’ve been saying it is going to happen for some time. And it will in some manner. I’d previously put the timeline somewhere in the next decade. I might revise that to 1-2 years. If this were happening in football the NCAA would be toast already. But the lines between pro (ie just NFL) and college are much more “bright” there and players already have to stay 3 years.

In whatever landscape there is going forward, I think even some B1G and SEC schools may be in a precarious position. For example, there are a few (but I've got one in mind) bad football programs in the B1G/SEC that are showing little sign of investing more in their FB program. Schools are very competitive for revenue right now, and I've got to think conferences are going to look at schools that aren't investing in football and add very little to the next media rights deal and ask themselves if they want send those schools $100M+ per year in media rights, which of course adds up to $1B+ over ten years. Why not cut their share or boot them? Let the contributing schools keep that money. Right or wrong, it wouldn't be surprising if that happened in my opinion... Thankfully, our guy Scott gets this, he said, "In the Big Ten, you need to be relevant in football to be a relevant member in your conference. We want to pay our fair share and be a valued member in football." Some people get upset with Scott over CDD/IUBB not going great, regardless of it that's true or not, they're missing the big picture. Scott's #1 priority is making IUFB an appealing media property. Not an easy task at all, but he's doing it, and hopefully he keeps it up. If IUFB stinks and no one wants to watch us, all of IU athletics has an uncertain future.

The only solution to the current chaos is finally evolving from the impotent NCAA and forming some new entity that drops the false pretense of amateurism and enforces some sort of collective bargaining agreement with players. IMO. What that looks like exactly, who knows. And where that leaves the NCAA, who knows... but also, who cares? It's time.

The UNC fake class scandal broke the NCAA. They spent 7 years on that one and came up empty. They're not even trying anymore.

IU doesn't have a rich football history because we've had overall bad players for 125 years. 2009 was a good showing by IUBB fans, but that was heavily driven by fans supporting a temporary rebuild process with the expectation of improvement. Attendance was down 15% from the previous year and if we measured people through the turnstiles, it was likely quite a bit more of a decline than that. IU has juiced bball attendance numbers for a long time -- for example this season they have claimed six sellouts which is not even close to true. I don't think college sports is all players, I agree the University plays a big role, but the players matter a lot. They have to be good for people to watch. And does the college sports landscape really suck? I'll agree CBB is struggling. But as for the big sport, the only one that really matters -- CFB interest, attendance, and TV ratings are quite high. CFB teams still retain a large portion of their rosters despite "one year rentals." The NIL/transfer portal era has given more teams and chance to compete if they hire a good coach and invest. Teams cannot hoard talent anymore. The new rules helped IUFB turn things around quickly and go undefeated and win the B1G. And now we've got the best stretch of IU athletics since the 1980's. I'm struggling to see what really sucks right now.

This has Muss written all over it.

An actual minor league for Football would be interesting. But then again I think the NFL and NBA are fine with how things are currently. Unless one of them is willing to try and wrestle away control of the intermediate level of the sport then the power will stay right where it is. That or some billionaire is willing lose millions building out a league NBA arguably could do it fairly easily with the NBDL Players can sign a salary out of high school with the NBDL but then have to enter the draft.

I don't know. If we changed out IU's team to all walk-ons, we'd be 0-12 this season. What do you think attendance and program revenue would be? The team would have Indiana University on their jerseys, but ain't nobody watching that. NIL looks like a good thing overall. It's basically just really rich people paying players who are generally run of the mill middle class people. And in some cases players from tough backgrounds get lifechanging money for themselves and their families (of course they have to use it right, and while some don't, most probably do). This looks good to me.

The revenue is because of the universities. The players, except in very very limited exceptions, are interchangeable. Look at the attendance/viewership for minor league teams. It’s nothing compared to college sports. 15k plus people aren’t packing in Assembly Hall to watch Tucker Devries (no offense to him). They’re coming to watch Indiana University. 100k people wouldn’t go watch the Tuscaloosa Tide play the Athens Bulldogs. I’m not against NIL in theory. If people want to buy a player’s autograph, or if Mother Bears wants to pay Anthony Leal to advertise pizzas, no problem with that. But the current “NIL” landscape is so far removed from that. It’s a complete mess, and it’s only going to get worse.

My kid is at a very good, big state school and is getting free tuition, room and board, and I am thrilled. But my kid brings in zero revenue to that school; he merely contributes to bumping up their entry stats a bit, and has a good chance to be a contributor alumnus. An athletic scholarship kid that brings in tons of revenue who would go there for free under the old system would also be getting a great deal, but comparatively would be getting screwed. So both things can be true; that prior system full ride can be a great thing, but still not be a reasonable model for a free market system.

The double standards are an atrocity. I really hate the NCAA.

Wasn’t sure where to put this…was hoping we didn’t get involved in this mess….but interest shown at least I guess

The value of the players isn’t an opinion. In a free market P4 football rosters are being paid $15-40M on top of scholarships. That’s what they’re worth because programs are willing to pay that. Before NIL and rev share rosters were being shorted by about $15-40M. I’ll stop. This is off topic for the thread.

And nobody is making you watch the current product you are complaining about.

Coach Sitake has a good attitude. I wish I could have seen Marcus Freeman deal with all this Pop Tarts stuff lol. Update: and we have the morbid remains

North Texas/San Diego State is the perfect bowl game. A billion points, every other play has something completely bats**t insane happen, it’s raining in New Mexico for the first time in 2 months according to the broadcast. What a treat.

Brown sugar cinnamon not being a first-ballot choice is an absolute travesty! Cinnamon roll can't carry brown sugar cinnamon's jock strap!

That may do it, a shame cuz Dabo was gonna treat them to some fine NY pizza.

Last game of 2025 brings the Gophers (9-3) to Bloomington. Another important visitor Monday night is IU target '27 Finley Parker from River Ridge HS in Woodstock, GA. It's hinted that a late winter/early spring commitment decision is possible. The Gophers average 79 ppg with a +28 scoring margin. They average 43 rpg with a +10 margin. They protect the ball with just 10 TOs/gm. Our comparable per game stats are 75 / 34 / 14 so unless we bring our A+ game, it might be a long night for the IU women. It's a short turnaround for the women as they host Michigan State on Thursday, New Year's Day at noon and 3 days after that on Jan. 4, they play at Maryland. Radio Live Stats

In their final game at the Jordan Holiday Classic, McNamara defeated St. Xavier (KY) 58-55 but they did nearly their best to give the game away. A series of 4th Q mental lapses and careless mistakes coupled with St. X press had the game tied with 7 sec. left. Moody got the inbounds pass, drove the length and was fouled at the rim with 1.3 left. He missed the first but made the second. On the St. X inbounds, the player launched an overhand throw that had too much arc and hit a roof support so McNamara gets the ball back and Moody throws up a shot at the buzzer that went in for the 3-point win. The coach should make their big center #10 walk back to Maryland. Twice in the 4th Q he felt possessed to run to the 3-point line and foul the shooter. Bad enough to do it today when the team was on the ropes, but he did it twice in yesterday's game against Link Academy.

The whole NIL thing is, at best, a scam. These kids are not getting paid for their name, image or likeness. They're being paid to play and the NCAA is trying to sell is as name, image and likeness. It's all a ruse... if you want to pay the players, fine... but call it that... don't p!$$ on my leg and tell me it's raining. The whole revenue sharing is/was supposed to fix that, but not even close. The worst part is that some of those who cannot make it in the professional ranks are finding ways to stay and play for 6 or 7 years or more and getting paid. Because in the NBA and the NFL there are 30 and 32 teams, respectively vying for the best players to hire and pay, but in college there are over 300 "employers" seeking out players to pay. It's a simple matter of the math.

Amen, very well said. It was supposed to be players being paid for name, image and likeness and not pay for play.

Let's assume a very expensive large football program cuts their $50M spend on staff and players down to $10M. A $40M savings. For a typical state school student population of 40K, that's about $1K per student per year. It's not going to make a dent. And of course to do this, you'd be screwing players and even coaches out of what they're worth. And in reality, today football programs still turn a profit or at worst produce a small, de minimis loss.

Funny thing is if any of these don’t pay the players people were faced with a situation where they were the ones getting paid 10-20% of their value, they would be screaming bloody murder.

Eye roll emoji

The system has taken advantage of the kids for 100 years. I'm fine with them taking back some control.

As always it will depend on the wins they end up. They could 9-11 in the B1G and with the right wins they will get in or the could go 11-9 with the wrong wins and get left out. Way too early to play the if they win this amount of games they are in