(2016) SG Grant Gelon commits to IU

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,284]

I think plenty of people questioned why we weren't more of a player for Cline, and I don't understand why we weren't.    I've questioned Crean's recruiting practices to the point of whipping a dead horse.  Not recruiting Cline was a mistake, because he's the kind of player who can succeed in Crean's system.

 

Grant is a similar player who's playing in different circumstances, in a different system, with a different coach, and very much out of the limelight compared to Carmel.  Whether we would laugh at Purdue 12 months before a kid hits campus or not, this has to play out before anything can be reasonably questioned.

 

I've been very hard on Crean because I think he has no idea how to build a team.  I think he knows how to get a few kids to say yes, and I think he uses a very "shotgun" approach to recruiting; but building a consistently successful roster seems beyond his capability.   I also don't think he's a very good game coach, and I hate his half court offense because I think it lacks movement and is very inefficient.  And I've been saying those things for 5 years, so we agree that he's not the right fit.  I don't like that he hasn't seemed to focus his primary recruiting effort locally.    Michigan State does, and they spent 1/3rd what Indiana did on recruiting last year.   Wisconsin does, and they spent 10% what Indiana did (according to the Indianapolis Star).  Culture is important everywhere, but especially at a program like Indiana.  Understanding that culture along with the expectations that come with it are important.   More important than many credit or realize.   Crean's not done a good job in that area, but this kid sends a message that maybe he's starting to get the picture.

 

In Grant, whether he's highly ranked or not....and I have no idea on what basis he's not; we have a 6'5" kid who can shoot it (43% from the 3-point line is stout, and I don't care who he's playing or where.   That's terrific in game conditions.), who understands angles, spacing, and how to use screens (you can see that in his youtube video), and has a knack for being around the ball defensively.

 

Kids like that don't necessarily need to be spectacular athletes, and I'll use the Brian Evans example again.  He was an unknown beanpole from Terre Haute who was seen at the time as not much more than a 6'7" shooter who shot the ball from his waist.   He turned out to be the Big Ten POY as a senior,   Certainly not going to make that prediction for this kid, but the point is the precedent, not the achievement.  Smart basketball players who can shoot?  Sounds like the Indiana culture to me.   Now, he may end up nothing more than a HPER all star.  Or, he may end up a very solid player at Indiana. We won't know for at least 2 1/2 years, so I don't care if Purdue laughs or not, and it doesn't matter to me if he signs first or last.  You see this as a sign of poor judgement by our coach and I see it as a sign he may be changing the way he recruits in a way which will benefit the program in the long term.   As long as this kid has the ability to succeed in the Big Ten, we can't have enough kids like this.  We need athletes, size, speed, and ball handlers too....but 6'5" shooters who understand the game pretty well?   Sign me up.

 

I can pretty much agree with everything you said except for your one sentence "...I see it as a sign he may be changing the way he recruits..."  I see it as just more of his haphazard recruiting style and I in no way mean that as a knock against 2G.  CTC reminds me of a little kid at Christmas who every time they see a toy ad on TV, says "Mommy, I want that, I want that!"

[Old Friend 8,389]

I can pretty much agree with everything you said except for your one sentence "...I see it as a sign he may be changing the way he recruits..."  I see it as just more of his haphazard recruiting style and I in no way mean that as a knock against 2G.  CTC reminds me of a little kid at Christmas who every time they see a toy ad on TV, says "Mommy, I want that, I want that!"

I don't disagree with you one bit.  And maybe I'm giving him too much credit.   But I reserve hope that he's finally getting the picture that he doesn't have to spend $630,000 on recruiting every year in order to build a team - especially when Wisconsin spends $65,000 and Michigan State spends $200,000.  I absolutely agree that he's been hap-hazard and "shotgun" so far.  Heck, he has - with the exception of one group - always had a collection of varying levels of talent, not a consistent roster.   Completely agree there.  Maybe I should have said "I hope it's a sign."  

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Was that a highlight video...?

It very much matters whether he is shooting 43% against good vs. okay competition. If he shoots 43% in the B1G then we can talk.

I wish nothing but the best for this kid. I hope he gets to IU and sets the B1G on fire. However, I'm not sure he'll even be around for his junior year to see if someone is right or wrong.

You really hit the nail on the head about my uncertainty here. Crean treats his team like it was full of 5-stars who will only be there one year. So, how can I get excited about a player who might be really good as a junior if I can't reasonably expect any player to see their junior year?

[swatford 1,235]

Just read an interview Bozich had with GG on ITH. Seems like a kid who has a good head on his shoulders, who's die hard IU, and is looking forward to working hard and competing. We've missed out on some of that the past couple years so it's refreshing to see that again.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,147]

I just read the interview too.  I wish this kid nothing but the best.  Seems like a great kid.  If he can be anywhere near Jon Scheyer or Nick Stauskus I will eat crow and be happy to do so. 

 

Remain fixed that I don't agree with the timing but this kid is easy to root for.

[FKfootball 1,046]

The problem is, that this kid grew up a Duke Basketball fan. That should tell us all we need to know. I have a ton of respect for the kid admitting that too. But we have a problem with the lack of youths in our fanbase. Down here in the deep southern Indiana, if u walk around in a high school like Floyd Central, New Albany, Jeff, or Silver Creek, you won't find anything but kids who are UK or UofL fans. IU just doesn't attract fans anymore unless it's a family legacy thing like my family. It's no wonder that we have a hard time recruiting the state. Half of the kids are UK fans. I don't blame Crean for any of this. 1 problem is we have had a bunch of ADs (Glass included) that still think it's 1980. IU needed a brand new Arena, Nike Apparell, and a big name coach. We are 0-3 there and that's why were only an above average program.

[Alford Bailey 12,373]

The problem is, that this kid grew up a Duke Basketball fan. That should tell us all we need to know. I have a ton of respect for the kid admitting that too. But we have a problem with the lack of youths in our fanbase. Down here in the deep southern Indiana, if u walk around in a high school like Floyd Central, New Albany, Jeff, or Silver Creek, you won't find anything but kids who are UK or UofL fans. IU just doesn't attract fans anymore unless it's a family legacy thing like my family. It's no wonder that we have a hard time recruiting the state. Half of the kids are UK fans. I don't blame Crean for any of this. 1 problem is we have had a bunch of ADs (Glass included) that still think it's 1980. IU needed a brand new Arena, Nike Apparell, and a big name coach. We are 0-3 there and that's why were only an above average program.

Cant argue with any of this. I've said for a long time IU needs a major rebranding. I'm afraid in 8 years Adidas will be such a has been that it seriously affects recruiting.

[TheStillman 991]

The problem is, that this kid grew up a Duke Basketball fan. That should tell us all we need to know. I have a ton of respect for the kid admitting that too. But we have a problem with the lack of youths in our fanbase. Down here in the deep southern Indiana, if u walk around in a high school like Floyd Central, New Albany, Jeff, or Silver Creek, you won't find anything but kids who are UK or UofL fans. IU just doesn't attract fans anymore unless it's a family legacy thing like my family. It's no wonder that we have a hard time recruiting the state. Half of the kids are UK fans. I don't blame Crean for any of this. 1 problem is we have had a bunch of ADs (Glass included) that still think it's 1980. IU needed a brand new Arena, Nike Apparell, and a big name coach. We are 0-3 there and that's why were only an above average program.

 

To your point in bold.  It is not about branding (the IU brand is strong, distinct and recognizable), arena (you can have a strong fanbase with a classic arena/stadium, look at the Cubs or Red Sox) or shoe brand (you mentioned Louisville as some we should strive to be like, they wear Adidas).  It is about winning because most people are bandwagoners, especially kids under 18.  If a team is good they will wear their products.  I would guess from 2011-13 there were a lot of kids wearing IU gear.  I know in NYC I couldn't go to a bar when IU was playing and not see a few IU fans and that has continued each of the past 2 years as well.  If the team is winning people will become fans.  

 

The IU brand as a university is as strong as it has ever been.  

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,147]

To your point in bold. It is not about branding (the IU brand is strong, distinct and recognizable), arena (you can have a strong fanbase with a classic arena/stadium, look at the Cubs or Red Sox) or shoe brand (you mentioned Louisville as some we should strive to be like, they wear Adidas). It is about winning because most people are bandwagoners, especially kids under 18. If a team is good they will wear their products. I would guess from 2011-13 there were a lot of kids wearing IU gear. I know in NYC I couldn't go to a bar when IU was playing and not see a few IU fans and that has continued each of the past 2 years as well. If the team is winning people will become fans.

The IU brand as a university is as strong as it has ever been.

i agree. Bandwagon fans explain it perfectly. Kids are especially bandwagoners.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

i agree. Bandwagon fans explain it perfectly. Kids are especially bandwagoners.

And can seriously commit due to their bandwagon. I'm a down and dirty 49ers fan (even 03-10) because they were the awesome team when I was a kid. They've received thousands of my dollars over the years now because they won at the right time.

Heck, even Indiana lost the Maryland at just the right time for me to stick it to my family (all UMD alums) by choosing IU over UMD (my final two school choices).

It's all about timing and right now, our time was 13 years ago at best, 30 at worst.

[FKfootball 1,046]

I agree with everything u guys just said. A lot of fans are bandwaggoners. I'm an IU football fan of course and an Oakland Raiders fan. That explains the loyaly I have. Have I been negative? Of course. But have never strayed from any of my teams especially Indiana basketball.

[HoosierTrav 7,786]

[quote name="Flash3" post="186010" timestamp="1439606710"]yes. It college sports is now a business. If kids choose to graduate then they graduate. I don't want "Wisconsin" success. I want "Kentucky" or "Duke" or "Kansas" success. I want to win. I want to see kids put in the NBA.

I definitely appreciate that. My honest opinion is not far from your own. I too want to produce a ton of lotto picks and be consistently elite like UK, Duke, & KU. I would hope that while they are in school they would honor the student athlete label that they took on. I'm not cool with the UNC approach. That's absolutely ridiculous. It shows a lack of integrity and makes a mockery of the sport. We should always strive for keeping the integrity of the game intact. I don't think kids leaving after one season compromises that integrity as long as these players put forth a solid effort to be students while they are there. Kudos for reaching your goals ahead of schedule kiddos!

Wisky had one good group that took them to that big stage twice but it was uncharted territory for Wisconsin and Bo Ryan up until that point. It's never been their expectation or something that they will sustain. So I agree with you there also, although I'd take what they have now over what we have now in a heart beat.

I would add that UK doesn't have a zero graduation rate. He produces a crap load of 1st round draft picks. I think the reasoning behind many peoples argument that these kids need to have something to fall back on is an absolute joke. When you've positioned yourself to guarantee yourself a multi million dollar salary, you take that opportunity. It can go away so fast. College can always be an option after that. The college experience won't be there per se but the college experience is not worth jeopardizing/risking your financial future. See Cody Zeller. He would have been taking an enormous risk coming back for another season. It really comes down to the fans putting our own selfish desires above what's best for the kid and their family.

[Alford Bailey 12,373]

[quote name="Flash3" post="186010" timestamp="1439606710"]yes. It college sports is now a business. If kids choose to graduate then they graduate. I don't want "Wisconsin" success. I want "Kentucky" or "Duke" or "Kansas" success. I want to win. I want to see kids put in the NBA.

I definitely appreciate that. My honest opinion is not far from your own. I too want to produce a ton of lotto picks and be consistently elite like UK, Duke, & KU. I would hope that while they are in school they would honor the student athlete label that they took on. I'm not cool with the UNC approach. That's absolutely ridiculous. It shows a lack of integrity and makes a mockery of the sport. We should always strive for keeping the integrity of the game intact. I don't think kids leaving after one season compromises that integrity as long as these players put forth a solid effort to be students while they are there. Kudos for reaching your goals ahead of schedule kiddos!

Wisky had one good group that took them to that big stage twice but it was uncharted territory for Wisconsin and Bo Ryan up until that point. It's never been their expectation or something that they will sustain. So I agree with you there also, although I'd take what they have now over what we have now in a heart beat.

I would add that UK doesn't have a zero graduation rate. He produces a crap load of 1st round draft picks. I think the reasoning behind many peoples argument that these kids need to have something to fall back on is an absolute joke. When you've positioned yourself to guarantee yourself a multi million dollar salary, you take that opportunity. It can go away so fast. College can always be an option after that. The college experience won't be there per se but the college experience is not worth jeopardizing/risking your financial future. See Cody Zeller. He would have been taking an enormous risk coming back for another season. It really comes down to the fans putting our own selfish desires above what's best for the kid and their family.

I comes down to jealousy and looking down on anybody who isn't part of the herd. Those kids have no need for a 4 year degree. What they need is a Dave Ramsey or Suzie Orman money management course.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I comes down to jealousy and looking down on anybody who isn't part of the herd. Those kids have no need for a 4 year degree. What they need is a Dave Ramsey or Suzie Orman money management course.

I would love to see student athletes generally be forced to take a class like that in school. Sure, 99% won't need it as bad, but it's great for everyone to know and could save some of them.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Actually a class on personal finance/benefits etc should be required for all college grads.

No argument here. Just don't know who could enforce that. The ncaa could do it for student athletes.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,284]

The universities could enforce that by requiring them....

Won't happen.  Too many players wouldn't pass and hurt the school's APR.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

The universities could enforce that by requiring them....

I know, but that's the difference of hundreds of governing bodies making a decision and one governing body doing it.

[Dalton26 16,892]

Honestly I think personal finance is something that should be taught in high school.

[Beowulf50 816]

ame="Beowulf50" post="186177" timestamp="1439685200"]no, you are stating your opinion and stirring the pot

I'm stirring the pot?? Errrr!!!! Ok don't let me interrupt your negativity. Carry on.

I remember being at a game and Mike Roberts getting booed for laying the ball up instead of dunking it on a fast break.

[MikeRoberts 6,963]

I'm stirring the pot?? Errrr!!!! Ok don't let me interrupt your negativity. Carry on.

I remember being at a game and Mike Roberts getting booed for laying the ball up instead of dunking it on a fast break.

you can be hopeful for Crean and IU without making backhanded comments towards posters that are not so excited about where we are headed.