Fire Darian DeVries? Lol

[Muskie plays the four]

31 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

Who is on your candidate list as of today? Realistically. Because who are you going to replace him with that's immediately available, that's GOOD and immediately available, and that's good, immediately available, and not going to use the majority of available coin in doing so? That's a narrow mark to hit.

 

Josh Shertz 

[newcastle12]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Lol this team is a disaster, my bad.  I picked a terrible roster I guess.  I didn't prepare this team correctly for the games I suppose.  My gameplan that I had the team perform was clearly underwhelming.  Maybe I should do better with them at practice.

This is hysterical 

This was a team full of portal scraps since the admin wanted everyone on last years team flushed out of the program.  A complete reset was wildly reported.  Hell they even fired athletic training staff.

Most of it was put together without our recruiting coaches hired.   2 guys who were thought to be rotation guys haven't sniffed the floor because of injury.  

The program is likely spending somewhere between 25-30 in the country in resources.  

So yes not understanding those things and immediately putting pressure on a coach is dumb, and it's indicative of a bad fan base that doesn't understand modern basketball.

Good teams are spending more than twice what we are.  That's likely to go down as long as Cig is here.

It has to be built into a regular tournament team consistently . There wasn't any short cut on the amount of money spent.   It's needed to be rebuilt since Crean was fired and it's never been done.   

So having Indiana, the school who's been barely relevant in a quarter century a place where your coach gets 18 games isn't going to help anything.  

 

[newcastle12]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Wish we would have landed 1 of the 5 star fresh.  But I think we don’t appeal in any way right now. 
 

Money, and probably overseas money is the only hope of an immediate turnaround. But who is our scout to be trusted?  Because we don’t have one. We brought over 2 unplayable ones already.  

Rod Clark wasn't even on staff when these guys were signed.  Kenny wasn't here right away either.  

[Josh]

11 minutes ago, newcastle12 said:

This was a team full of portal scraps since the admin wanted everyone on last years team flushed out of the program.  A complete reset was wildly reported.  Hell they even fired athletic training staff.

Most of it was put together without our recruiting coaches hired.   2 guys who were thought to be rotation guys haven't sniffed the floor because of injury.  

The program is likely spending somewhere between 25-30 in the country in resources.  

So yes not understanding those things and immediately putting pressure on a coach is dumb, and it's indicative of a bad fan base that doesn't understand modern basketball.

Good teams are spending more than twice what we are.  That's likely to go down as long as Cig is here.

It has to be built into a regular tournament team consistently . There wasn't any short cut on the amount of money spent.   It's needed to be rebuilt since Crean was fired and it's never been done.   

So having Indiana, the school who's been barely relevant in a quarter century a place where your coach gets 18 games isn't going to help anything.  

 

Poor Devries.  He's such a victim of the administration and fans.

You and I do have something similar here.  You think I'm dumb for holding the coach accountable to the results on the court.  I think you're dumb for not holding the coach accountable and blaming the fans for poor results. 

Fan blaming is so Mike Davis.

[BGleas]

21 minutes ago, newcastle12 said:

This was a team full of portal scraps since the admin wanted everyone on last years team flushed out of the program.  A complete reset was wildly reported.  Hell they even fired athletic training staff.

Most of it was put together without our recruiting coaches hired.   2 guys who were thought to be rotation guys haven't sniffed the floor because of injury.  

The program is likely spending somewhere between 25-30 in the country in resources.  

So yes not understanding those things and immediately putting pressure on a coach is dumb, and it's indicative of a bad fan base that doesn't understand modern basketball.

Good teams are spending more than twice what we are.  That's likely to go down as long as Cig is here.

It has to be built into a regular tournament team consistently . There wasn't any short cut on the amount of money spent.   It's needed to be rebuilt since Crean was fired and it's never been done.   

So having Indiana, the school who's been barely relevant in a quarter century a place where your coach gets 18 games isn't going to help anything.  

 

I think it's so early to even have this thread and to be talking about firing DeVries at this point, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. 

With that said and knowing DeVries has to essentially recruit an entire new team for next season, do you expect him to have the resources, staff and momentum in place to be able to recruit a high level Big Ten team? 

That's my thing, I don't see how this gets markedly better next season. He's going to have to hit an absolute grand slam in the portal. 

[Stuhoo]

Is it into season three yet?

No? Oh.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I think it's so early to even have this thread and to be talking about firing DeVries at this point, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. 

With that said and knowing DeVries has to essentially recruit an entire new team for next season, do you expect him to have the resources, staff and momentum in place to be able to recruit a high level Big Ten team. 

That's my thing, I don't see how this gets markedly better next season. He's going to have to hit an absolute grand slam in the portal. 

I’m not on board with anything he says. 
 

it sucks to lose.  Fans hate it, players hate it, and coaches hate it even more. 
 

but no one wants to take accountability.  It makes them feel better to blame the fans. The pressure is real.  But it’s certainly not the fans fault for how this team was put together or the fact that we are 12-6 and trending to miss the tournament.  The fanbase has been incredibly ambivalent. Enrights brother, Malik, SDBurner(Race Thompson) are blaming the fans. 
 

The fans have barely given a crap this season, the results aren’t on the fans for this season and that’s a fact.  The heat is turned up now, but a competive person works their butts off to win.  A good coaching staff keeps them focused.  
 

Woodson, his staff, and his players hated the fans.  And constantly saw things through a racial lens, which is no way to live.  
 

it all comes down to winning and exceeding expectations or not. Always.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’m not on board with anything he says. 
 

it sucks to lose.  Fans hate it, players hate it, and coaches hate it even more. 
 

but no one wants to take accountability.  It makes them feel better to blame the fans. The pressure is real.  But it’s certainly not the fans fault for how this team was put together or the fact that we are 12-6 and trending to miss the tournament.  The fanbase has been incredibly ambivalent. Enrights brother, Malik, SDBurner(Race Thompson) are blaming the fans. 
 

The fans have barely given a crap this season, the results aren’t on the fans for this season and that’s a fact.  The heat is turned up now, but a competive person works their butts off to win.  A good coaching staff keeps them focused.  
 

Woodson, his staff, and his players hated the fans.  And constantly saw things through a racial lens, which is no way to live.  
 

it all comes down to winning and exceeding expectations or not. Always.

Yeah, I'm with you on all of that. I might have misread the post I quoted. 

I absolutely don't think it's the fans fault. I was more agreeing with the idea that some circumstances made the portal season tougher than it should have been last season. 

A lot of that is on DeVries for sure. 

I'm with you though, apathy has absolutely set in. I'd usually be screaming at the TV during a 2nd half like today. This year? I just expected it and frankly other than being frustrated with the state of the program, it didn't even really bother me. 

I think we're in a mess right now. The only real way out I see if is a huge investment in the program from someone so we can buy a team next year. 

[HinnyHoosier]

42 minutes ago, Muskie plays the four said:

Josh Shertz 

And what happens when he looks at the guillotine that is the IU head cosching job while he's just begun building something at St. Louis after 2 years and says, "Gross. I'm good where I'm at, thanks." ??

20+ wins and a tournament bid in year one of stepping into a program that was skin and bones for the guy that just got fired in one season, that will be even more barren (if that's possible) for the next guy....it's borderline unreasonable and poor management. I know we're spoiled by a freak turnaround on the football field and the basketball community is sick of waiting for the last 3 decades, but things take time and people are acting like that's a choice. This is not me saying give him umpteen years, because that's also a reason why we're here. But at least give a minimum of more than a year.

[8bucks]

35 minutes ago, newcastle12 said:

This was a team full of portal scraps since the admin wanted everyone on last years team flushed out of the program.  A complete reset was wildly reported.  Hell they even fired athletic training staff.

Most of it was put together without our recruiting coaches hired.   2 guys who were thought to be rotation guys haven't sniffed the floor because of injury.  

The program is likely spending somewhere between 25-30 in the country in resources.  

So yes not understanding those things and immediately putting pressure on a coach is dumb, and it's indicative of a bad fan base that doesn't understand modern basketball.

Good teams are spending more than twice what we are.  That's likely to go down as long as Cig is here.

It has to be built into a regular tournament team consistently . There wasn't any short cut on the amount of money spent.   It's needed to be rebuilt since Crean was fired and it's never been done.   

So having Indiana, the school who's been barely relevant in a quarter century a place where your coach gets 18 games isn't going to help anything.  

 

Big red flag for me was that none of his WVU players or recruits wanted to follow him. The staff was very active in HS recruiting this cycle. Snow mentioned this a few times and noted that other schools seemed to be focusing on the portal vs HS and yet we did not have great results even when we gave more effort than other schools. 
 

No idea on who I would put as my top candidate but Bruce Pearl is available lol 

Recruiting is about selling a vision and momentum or a lot of cash. The first 2 are dying on the vine and the 3rd did not work for Woody. 

[Josh]

8 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

And what happens when he looks at the guillotine that is the IU head cosching job while he's just begun building something at St. Louis after 2 years and says, "Gross. I'm good where I'm at, thanks." ??

20+ wins and a tournament bid in year one of stepping into a program that was skin and bones for the guy that just got fired in one season, that will be even more barren (if that's possible) for the next guy....it's borderline unreasonable and poor management. I know we're spoiled by a freak turnaround on the football field and the basketball community is sick of waiting for the last 3 decades, but things take time and people are acting like that's a choice. This is not me saying give him umpteen years, because that's also a reason why we're here. But at least give a minimum of more than a year.

It's not just the win loss record that matters.  I understand that builds take time in spite of Cignatty's freak success.  But I need to see things in the losses to make me feel like there's a bright future.

I need to see hustle in losses.  I need to see smart basketball in losses.  I need to see a cohesive team and promise in losses.

Seeing what we've seen under Devries includes none of these things.  It's sloppy basketball, little hustle, bad plays.  Where's the optimism?  Is it true that we should accept bad basketball without potential simply because a calendar says so?  I can't get behind that.

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, newcastle12 said:

And this is EXACTLY the reason Indiana basketball is in the shape it is in.  No nuance from the fan base.  No understanding at all.  

Are there problems, yes.  But holy hell these guys haven't even had a full portal season with their staff.  I kinda wish a whole lot of Indiana fans would go root for someone else.  

Dude we just got pantsed by a crap Iowa team at home.   

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, newcastle12 said:

Because the problem isn't the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy and Joes, and this staff hasn't even been able to recruit anyone yet.  They got portal scraps without their full staff in place.  

Why didn’t he bring a few WVA players, like most coaches do?

[AZ Hoosier]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

Dude we just got pantsed by a crap Iowa team at home.   

Unfortunately, I don't see this being the last time that happens. I'd love to be wrong.

[Pagoda]

The other angle is this is financially not possible right now.

CDD's buyout is $18-19M after this season, add $1-2M for staff buyouts, and that's ~$20M to get rid of this staff.  Then add $2-10M more to buyout whatever coach gets picked next, and we're talking $22-30M to flip the MBB staff.  Mind you we just spent $12.7M for forcibly "retire" Woody ($6.5M) and pay WVU's buyout for CDD ($6.2M).

IU is not paying $22-30M for a new bball staff right now.  We don't have that money and it would be a huge waste vs. spending it on football.  Or even MBB players.  Or whatever else.

If you look at the numbers, IUBB (and CBB in general) doesn't make a whole lot of money.  Even if, and it's one heck of a giant IF, the next coach got IUBB going, that's only going to increase revenue ~$2-3M/yr.  Maybe $4M at best.  That's a crap return for spending $22-30M on a new staff, and there are no guarantees they'll be better.

The IU athletic dept doesn't financially need IUBB to be good.  IUFB is driving revenue increases, university exposure, and our influence in college sports.  Our fans/donors have not been this fired up in 40 years.

I agree CDD is off to a bad start.  I'm disappointed and have serious doubts.  But I can't see anything happening until year three, because that's how long coaches get and we can't afford to move right now anyways. 

So, the only options are to hope for the best or tune out.  I guess another option is to post your displeasures on BTB.

[HinnyHoosier]

11 minutes ago, Josh said:

It's not just the win loss record that matters.  I understand that builds take time in spite of Cignatty's freak success.  But I need to see things in the losses to make me feel like there's a bright future.

I need to see hustle in losses.  I need to see smart basketball in losses.  I need to see a cohesive team and promise in losses.

Seeing what we've seen under Devries includes none of these things.  It's sloppy basketball, little hustle, bad plays.  Where's the optimism?  Is it true that we should accept bad basketball without potential simply because a calendar says so?  I can't get behind that.

No one says we have to accept bad product based on a timeline, but we do need to be strategic with it and also can't analyze it in a vacuum. External factors abound (most of them iterated in previous posts so I won't re-hash) and aside from when Crean inherited us after a death penalty, no one else has come into as barren a situation as Devries. Add to it that, and yes it sounds like a cop out, I have no doubt believing Mike Woodson left him an uphill climb when recruiting the portal. He and his staff  bottomed out the perception of the culture of IU basketball and I wouldn't put it past the old coot to spread misinformation on his way out. We are in a crap situation but can also do our part in making it even worse. 

[str8baller]

15 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

And what happens when he looks at the guillotine that is the IU head cosching job while he's just begun building something at St. Louis after 2 years and says, "Gross. I'm good where I'm at, thanks." ??

Then he can keep his chubby little face at St Louis making 1/10th the salary with 1/10th the NIL budget. And he’ll never win a title and nobody will ever care. 

 

The thing all the weak kneed fans don’t understand is it is a self sorting mechanism. Coaches afraid of a big time job will never have a big time job.  
 

Also the thought of IU as a “guillotine” is so hilariously misinformed that I don’t even know what to say. No major program has kept crappy coaches around longer than IU. It’s actually the opposite. No good coaches come to IU because we don’t fire bad coaches fast enough. We’re seen as unserious losers. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

The other angle is this is financially not possible right now.

CDD's buyout is $18-19M after this season, add $1-2M for staff buyouts, and that's ~$20M to get ride of this staff.  Then add $2-10M more to buyout whatever coach gets picked next, and we're talking $22-30M to flip the MBB staff.  Mind you we just spent $12.7M for forcibly "retire" Woody ($6.5M) and pay WVU's buyout for CDD ($6.2M).

IU is not paying $22-30M for a new bball staff right now.  We don't have that money and it would be a huge waste vs. spending it on football.  Or even MBB players.  Or whatever else.

If you look at the numbers, IUBB (and CBB in general) doesn't make a whole lot of money.  Even if, and it's one heck of a giant IF, the next coach got IUBB going, that's only going to increase revenue ~$2-3M/yr.  Maybe $4M at best.  That's a crap return for spending $22-30M on a new staff, and there are no guarantees they'll be better.

The IU athletic dept doesn't financially need IUBB to be good.  IUFB is driving revenue increases, university exposure, and our influence in college sports.  Our fans/donors have not been this fired up in 40 years.

I agree CDD is off to a bad start.  I'm disappointed and have serious doubts.  But I can't see anything happening until year three, because that's how long coaches get and we can't afford to move right now anyways. 

So, the only options are to hope for the best or tune out.  I guess another option is to post your displeasures on BTB.

Yep.  It’s a 3 year haul.  I’m not giving up my IUBB addiction but I’ll fast forward more basketball than I’d like.  And hope for a Great Reset in the offseason with an increased budget and a cohesive plan.  
And if it continues to be bad I’ll enjoy the next coaches search in a few years,  God willing.

[JSHoosier]

17 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Big red flag for me was that none of his WVU players or recruits wanted to follow him. The staff was very active in HS recruiting this cycle. Snow mentioned this a few times and noted that other schools seemed to be focusing on the portal vs HS and yet we did not have great results even when we gave more effort than other schools. 
 

No idea on who I would put as my top candidate but Bruce Pearl is available lol 

Recruiting is about selling a vision and momentum or a lot of cash. The first 2 are dying on the vine and the 3rd did not work for Woody. 

It was Woodson, that money would've been better used if it was burned for heat. His coaching could've screwed up the 92 Dream Team.

[HinnyHoosier]

14 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Then he can keep his chubby little face at St Louis making 1/10th the salary with 1/10th the NIL budget. And he’ll never win a title and nobody will ever care. 

 

The thing all the weak kneed fans don’t understand is it is a self sorting mechanism. Coaches afraid of a big time job will never have a big time job.  
 

Also the thought of IU as a “guillotine” is so hilariously misinformed that I don’t even know what to say. No major program has kept crappy coaches around longer than IU. It’s actually the opposite. No good coaches come to IU because we don’t fire bad coaches fast enough. We’re seen as unserious losers. 

What all the knee-jerking fans need to realize is not all the weak-kneed fans actually have weak knees. They just use more of their brains.

Face it: Indiana ain't it. Shertz can afford to wait until a more stable, more resourceful program comes calling. 

 

If you don't see a toxic work environment as a guillotine, as in getting fired in less than a full year cycle after starting with the cobwebs of lesser programs, I don't know how to fix your level of blindness.