They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[IUFAN1976]

4 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

They are already super cocky. But this is the easiest part of the schedule by far and they were picked to finish 2nd, so beating 4 teams that are all probably going to finish in the bottom half of the conference isn't really some overachievement. But I do think the chances of him being back are high.

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I would think Penn St could finish in the top half because of their guard play

[Hoosier987]

11 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

They are already super cocky. But this is the easiest part of the schedule by far and they were picked to finish 2nd, so beating 4 teams that are all probably going to finish in the bottom half of the conference isn't really some overachievement. But I do think the chances of him being back are high.

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Fair point. To further your point of finishing 2nd in the Big Ten, it was widely considered among everyone (fans and analysts) that a top 4 seed and 2nd weekend trip to the NCAA's was and is the goal for this team...anything less is a failure with the talent. 

If Woodson' sneaks into the tournament...Will people soon forget our preseason goals and claim Woodson did an amazing job getting this team into the tournament despite the preseason predictions and goals of being a top 4 seed / 2nd weekend team?

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

When was the last time a high-major coach kept coaching in the last 2 years of his contract? I don't recall any but I don't follow other schools' coaching situations that closely. I highly doubt it's very often as they'll get extended before that.

So those that think he'll be back should ask themselves whether he's done enough to get an extension.

I'd think that barely getting into the tournament when the preseason expectations were competing for a B1G title and S16+ wouldn't warrant one. Or will IU be one of the few schools that lets its coach get close to the end of his contract, knowing that it hurts recruiting - it would hurt portal recruiting as well as HS.

It's a fair point, but the changing portal times have changed that dynamic some:

Used to be that a coach without an extension could not recruit because no high schooler would commit to a likely staff change. 

Now? with the portal and transfers, high school recruiting, while still important, has been greatly de-emphasized and there is another obvious path to building a roster, especially for schools with a healthy NIL budget.

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I would think Penn St could finish in the top half because of their guard play

100% agree, but not just because of their guard play.

Konan at the 5 has really been good, though one might not know that after seeing Ballo dominate yesterday. Hicks is a very good 3/4 combo, and Rhodes is a very good coach. As Hornsby said, USC (especially) and Iowa follow, and those are both low-tier B1G teams, but Penn State? Seems like a 12-8-ish B1G team to me.

[Hornsby]

I would think Penn St could finish in the top half because of their guard play

They might but are currently 1-2. Probably need 10 wins to finish in the top half

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[Hornsby]

Fair point. To further your point of finishing 2nd in the Big Ten, it was widely considered among everyone (fans and analysts) that a top 4 seed and 2nd weekend trip to the NCAA's was and is the goal for this team...anything less is a failure with the talent. 
If Woodson' sneaks into the tournament...Will people soon forget our preseason goals and claim Woodson did an amazing job getting this team into the tournament despite the preseason predictions and goals of being a top 4 seed / 2nd weekend team?

Seems some are already forgetting what the expectations were.Most expected a top three finish and a sweet sixeteen as the bare minimum. But I still have a hard time seeing woodson string together two wins in the ncaa no matter how much talent he has.

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[Pagoda]

14 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Fair point. To further your point of finishing 2nd in the Big Ten, it was widely considered among everyone (fans and analysts) that a top 4 seed and 2nd weekend trip to the NCAA's was and is the goal for this team...anything less is a failure with the talent. 

If Woodson' sneaks into the tournament...Will people soon forget our preseason goals and claim Woodson did an amazing job getting this team into the tournament despite the preseason predictions and goals of being a top 4 seed / 2nd weekend team?

I look at last season when we won our last four regular season games and one more in the BTT.  If we had lost all those games, would that have forced a coaching change?  I don't know, but I suspect it might have, that would have been a mega meltdown.

Instead, we won those game and fans were generally happy, and that's fine I get it.  But those wins didn't get us anything except perhaps another year of Woody. 

So this year, I worry if we get 11 or 12 B1G wins it's sort of repeat of last year -- we don't accomplish anything but we get more Woody.  I get the desire to have a good season and assume Scott will make a change end of year, but I'm not sure that's a given.

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Come the end of March/early April it will be interesting to see who eats the crow.  Those that are positive he'll be back for 25-26 and those of us that are equally positive he's gone regardless.  Less than 90 days we'll know the winner or the loser depending how you  look at it.

 

  Bon appetit.

Imo I don’t know that crow would be the proper dish in this situation. We basically all want him gone after this season. Some of us just don’t have faith in the administration doing the best thing. We’ll all be losers if he’s back. 

[Pagoda]

23 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

When was the last time a high-major coach kept coaching in the last 2 years of his contract? I don't recall any but I don't follow other schools' coaching situations that closely. I highly doubt it's very often as they'll get extended before that.

So those that think he'll be back should ask themselves whether he's done enough to get an extension.

I'd think that barely getting into the tournament when the preseason expectations were competing for a B1G title and S16+ wouldn't warrant one. Or will IU be one of the few schools that lets its coach get close to the end of his contract, knowing that it hurts recruiting - it would hurt portal recruiting as well as HS.

I think you're spot on -- it's either fire or extend.

Even in the portal era, only two years left on a deal is a serious recruiting issue.  Every recruit will wonder why IU hasn't given him more years (it's a terrible signal) and if Woody will be around to be their coach.  It just doesn't work.  And Woody doesn't need any headwinds with HS recruiting, he is terrible at that to begin with.

I'd say the fire or extend dynamic, plus the endless bad stories of how he operates, give me some hope of a change end of this year even if we get to 11 or 12 wins the B1G.

[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

I think you're spot on -- it's either fire or extend.

Even in the portal era, only two years left on a deal is a serious recruiting issue.  Every recruit will wonder why IU hasn't given him more years (it's a terrible signal) and if Woody will be around to be their coach.  It just doesn't work.  And Woody doesn't need any headwinds with HS recruiting, he is terrible at that to begin with.

I'd say the fire or extend dynamic, plus the endless bad stories of how he operates, give me some hope of a change end of this year even if we get to 11 or 12 wins the B1G.

I strongly suspect that he needs:

• A conference top 3 finish (and in an 18 team conference that would be at least 14 wins) and a Sweet 16, or
• Any tourney berth and a Final Four

... to be the coach next year.

If he fills those accomplishments he adjusted a ton of things and earned the right to be back next year. But that's a very, very tall order.

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I strongly suspect that he needs:

• A conference top 3 finish (and in an 18 team conference that would be at least 14 wins) and a Sweet 16, or
• Any tourney berth and a Final Four

... to be the coach next year.

If he fills those accomplishments he adjusted a ton of things and earned the right to be back next year. But that's a very, very tall order.

You could definitely be right and I'm worrying too much -- I hope so. 

[Trish]

Today is a great day to Fire Mike Woodson!

 

Wins over Rutgers and Penn State do not move the needle whatsoever. Looking at the schedule, it looks like they only play 5 ranked teams in the conference? Jeez, another down year for the B1G.

[Uspshoosier]

[Hornsby]

You could definitely be right and I'm worrying too much -- I hope so. 

None of us really know what expectation woodson was given after he was handed the six million. And maybe there wasn't even a meeting. Only dolson really knows what the expectations are. That assumes it's dolsons decision to make.

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[HoosierMoore]

1 hour ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Come the end of March/early April it will be interesting to see who eats the crow.  Those that are positive he'll be back for 25-26 and those of us that are equally positive he's gone regardless.  Less than 90 days we'll know the winner or the loser depending how you  look at it.

 

  Bon appetit.

If he stays and we have to eat crow, perhaps I can smoke it for us so we can choke it down!  

[IUrocker]

As someone who definitely wants him gone, the optimist in me says that maybe he was given the $6 million because he knows it’s his last year, so it was everyone’s way of saying “here you go Mike, try and get yourself the best roster money can buy that you can try and use to go out with a bang your last season as coach. If you succeed with it, great, go out in style…and if not, oh well at least we tried to set you up for success, and you’re still gone.” 

[Hornsby]

As someone who definitely wants him gone, the optimist in me says that maybe he was given the $6 million because he knows it’s his last year, so it was everyone’s way of saying “here you go Mike, try and get yourself the best roster money can buy that you can try and use to go out with a bang your last season as coach. If you succeed with it, great, go out in style…and if not, oh well at least we tried to set you up for success, and you’re still gone.” 

Even if that's true and he has a good year he hasn't really built up the program or the culture. Has he created pipelines with indiana he coaches? Is he put attending hs games. The new coach will be starting at ground zero with all of that as all Woodson did was buy players in the spring. I doubt most coaches want to have to rely on putting 2/3rds of their team together in the spring. And I'm guessing is Woodson is back he will be looking to fill another 7 spots this spring.

 

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[Hoosierfan2017]

28 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

As someone who definitely wants him gone, the optimist in me says that maybe he was given the $6 million because he knows it’s his last year, so it was everyone’s way of saying “here you go Mike, try and get yourself the best roster money can buy that you can try and use to go out with a bang your last season as coach. If you succeed with it, great, go out in style…and if not, oh well at least we tried to set you up for success, and you’re still gone.” 

If that was the case then the administration should’ve come out and said it. Ordinarily you wouldn’t because you don’t want to hurt recruiting, but Woodson doesn’t do any recruiting so that worry isn’t there. Instead we’re in a position where wins aren’t enjoyable because each one increases the perceived likelihood of going through another year of the crappy Mike Woodson experience. 

[HoosierHoopster]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I strongly suspect that he needs:

• A conference top 3 finish (and in an 18 team conference that would be at least 14 wins) and a Sweet 16, or
• Any tourney berth and a Final Four

... to be the coach next year.

If he fills those accomplishments he adjusted a ton of things and earned the right to be back next year. But that's a very, very tall order.

I hope you're right Stu. I was thinking it's more like top 4 finish and a SW 16.  That it's time for a change seems very clear, I hope the bar is high for any chance at staying.

[MikeRoberts]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Come the end of March/early April it will be interesting to see who eats the crow.  Those that are positive he'll be back for 25-26 and those of us that are equally positive he's gone regardless.  Less than 90 days we'll know the winner or the loser depending how you  look at it.

 

  Bon appetit.

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone that is bullish on him being retained no matter what, but there are people that are overly confident he is gone no matter what, stating absolutes.

to me, that is an important point of clarification. I as well as others have stated that him making the tournament COULD be enough to bring him back.