They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[Eagle’s Rug]

It’s pretty telling that a long time insider like @KathywithaC made a statement that not all of Buckner’s influence has been bad.  Then when asked for an example, pointed to a lame duck coach firing that the public was clamoring for.  Makes it very clear that Buckner should be nowhere near basketball decisions.  

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

• Any of you that think that Quinn Buckner or Mike Woodson don't deeply care about IU? Good lord, that's an absolutist take that is just not true.
• If any of you think that Quinn Buckner, Mike Woodson, Curt Cignetti, or Scott Dolson are flawless? Good lord, that's an absolutist take that is just not true.

What is true? People are flawed and some are better or less suited for particular roles. Or they succeed at certain aspects of roles but when they fail it is very visible.

That's true for Buckner, Woodson, Cignetti, Dolson, or anyone outside of IU's universe. There are very few absolutist Bin Ladens that are without exception evil and misguided.                                                                                                        

If those two, Mike and Quinn, actually cared about IU basketball, they would do some self reflection and realize Woodson is in over his head, beyond is energy level at his age, and retire to great fanfare.  Instead we have another year of probable chit.  That is what real leaders do -- step aside when it's time.  

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, KathywithaC said:

The notion that they don’t know basketball or don’t care deeply about IU is really beyond reason. I understand everyone’s disappointment with the results, but these aren’t people who are devious or in it for ulterior purposes. 

There is a fundamental difference between "knowing basketball" and being able to coach it as a coach and manage it as a GM/Team President.  And I'll guarantee you there are a bunch of guys in the conference who know multiple times more basketball than QB and MW put together.  

[Golfman25]

59 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

Not sure that’s an apt analogy, but nobody likes the results so far. As to Woodson‘s work ethic, no one worked harder than Tom Crean, but that didn’t create enough success to keep him around.

He had more success, starting with much less, than the last two put together.  

[OKHOOSIER]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

I am indeed a clown. 

[LamarCheeks]

56 minutes ago, KathywithaC said:

Not sure that’s an apt analogy, but nobody likes the results so far. As to Woodson‘s work ethic, no one worked harder than Tom Crean, but that didn’t create enough success to keep him around.

How apt of an analogy is this? Crean was a workaholic and didn't get us the results we ultimately wanted. Since Woody hasn't delivered any results, either -- that makes it OK for him to be lazy? Crean at least reached two Sweet 16s. He definitely created more success than Woody -- and he inherited a complete garbage roster. Woody at least had something to work with when he came on board. 

[JSHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

There is a fundamental difference between "knowing basketball" and being able to coach it as a coach and manage it as a GM/Team President.  And I'll guarantee you there are a bunch of guys in the conference who know multiple times more basketball than QB and MW put together.  

This. They know the game as players, and they were good players. That doesn't mean they are or can choose good coaches. Not at all uncommon for good players to be bad on the other side of things.

[JSHoosier]

1 minute ago, LamarCheeks said:

How apt of an analogy is this? Crean was a workaholic and didn't get us the results we ultimately wanted. Since Woody hasn't delivered any results, either -- that makes it OK for him to be lazy? Crean at least reached two Sweet 16s. He definitely created more success than Woody -- and he inherited a complete garbage roster. Woody at least had something to work with when he came on board. 

And without the roster he inherited Woodson has struggled to even be mediocre.

[Tasmanian Devil]

19 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Conner Essegian (shooting 42%+ from 3) joins the chat.  :)   

I’ll bet right now you give him 6 wide open shots from the arc, he isn’t shooting 18.2% on them.

[Hornsby]

If those two, Mike and Quinn, actually cared about IU basketball, they would do some self reflection and realize Woodson is in over his head, beyond is energy level at his age, and retire to great fanfare.  Instead we have another year of probable chit.  That is what real leaders do -- step aside when it's time.  

Bingo!!

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[Hornsby]

And without the roster he inherited Woodson has struggled to even be mediocre.

Image his roster without nil.

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[tyappleg]

13 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

Image his roster without nil.

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Crean certainly has his faults, but Crean had to bust his @$$ to get some of the great rosters he got.  Woodson spends 3 weeks in the portal using his friend's money and then calls it a year.  

Woodson has the biggest head start of any previous IU basketball coach with NIL and has completely squandered it.  You can't even really compare him to previous coaches because of his enormous advantage of NIL. 

[Home Jersey]

5 minutes ago, tyappleg said:

Crean certainly has his faults, but Crean had to bust his @$$ to get some of the great rosters he got.  Woodson spends 3 weeks in the portal using his friend's money and then calls it a year.  

Woodson has the biggest head start of any previous IU basketball coach with NIL and has completely squandered it.  You can't even really compare him to previous coaches because of his enormous advantage of NIL. 

Left to his own devices without NIL, I’m not sure Mike Woodson would be able to recruit effectively enough to even field a team. 

[Hornsby]

Crean certainly has his faults, but Crean had to bust his @$$ to get some of the great rosters he got.  Woodson spends 3 weeks in the portal using his friend's money and then calls it a year.  
Woodson has the biggest head start of any previous IU basketball coach with NIL and has completely squandered it.  You can't even really compare him to previous coaches because of his enormous advantage of NIL. 

Just look how his fall recruiting goes. He would be bottom three or four in the big ten without nil and buddies like the cooks and Scott's

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[tyappleg]

4 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

Just look how his fall recruiting goes. He would be bottom three or four in the big ten without nil and buddies like the cooks and Scott's

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Hell; he'd be bottom 3 or 4 even with NIL without short term portal recruits.  He can barely land 1 high school recruit a class even with NIL funds. 

[Kentuckysucks]

26 minutes ago, tyappleg said:

Crean certainly has his faults, but Crean had to bust his @$$ to get some of the great rosters he got.  Woodson spends 3 weeks in the portal using his friend's money and then calls it a year.  

Woodson has the biggest head start of any previous IU basketball coach with NIL and has completely squandered it.  You can't even really compare him to previous coaches because of his enormous advantage of NIL. 

Don’t forget that he inherited one of the top players in college basketball.

[AZ Hoosier]

3 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

The notion that they don’t know basketball or don’t care deeply about IU is really beyond reason. I understand everyone’s disappointment with the results, but these aren’t people who are devious or in it for ulterior purposes. 

Gonna call BS on that one.

If William Quinn Buckner was the basketball savant that some claim he is, and only in it for the good of the university and the men's basketball program, why would he insist on hiring a below .500 career NBA coach, with zero college experience to coach a former blue blood basketball program? Further, why would Buckner allow said coach to cast off the safeguards and helps that he has been given (Matta, Fife) without objection, and to surround himself with a cadre of "yes" men that refuse to acknowledge that the emperor (said coach) is buck naked? And why would Buckner, after having seen the lack of success and the brutish "in your face" towards the large, knowledgeable and loyal fanbase have given said coach a fourth year simply "because Archie Miller got four years"?

Clearly there's another objective...

 

[steubenhoosier]

17 minutes ago, Kentuckysucks said:

Don’t forget that he inherited one of the top players in college basketball.

Not going to get drawn into this too deeply, too busy.

But don't forget that both TJD and Race were headed out the door when Archie was fired. Woodson and staff convinced them to come back. Both improved their games afterwards.

[AZ Hoosier]

2 hours ago, OKHOOSIER said:

It is also critically important we are not left behind in the next shuffle of conferences. The writing is on the wall even with the commentary surrounding the current 12-team playoff. It was somewhat openly being discussed on ESPN after the release about the top programs (30-40ish) breaking away. IU cannot be left behind due to the financial implications of being an afterthought that does not invest in the football program. This is IMO why you have seen the commitment, not simply just Cig winning big year 1. This HAD to happen (major resources to football), and I am fairly certain the powers that be knew this. The entire university cannot afford for football to be bad. 

But it appears that, at least on some levels, they've settled for trading the long-term death spiral of the basketball program for some (yet to be determined) level of success with football.

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, steubenhoosier said:

Not going to get drawn into this too deeply, too busy.

But don't forget that both TJD and Race were headed out the door when Archie was fired. Woodson and staff convinced them to come back. Both improved their games afterwards.

We stopped crediting Crean with the individual work ethic of certain players.  No reason Woodson should get to take credit.