They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[AH1971]

4 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

MW might be added to that list, To be continued!

Right, I said that. Calling him an “epic failure three years into his tenure…..isn’t accurate in any realm.

[IUFAN1976]

6 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Right, I said that. Calling him an “epic failure three years into his tenure…..isn’t accurate in any realm.

I for one did not call him that

[Hoosierfan2017]

35 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Disappointing season? Sure. Epic failure” not even close. IU was picked to finish anywhere between 7th-9th in the conference. Behind all those “stars” was a relatively young roster that was extremely flawed. Those “stars” were a true freshman and two sophomores who were bench/role players the year prior. Our stars played fine, it was the lack of talent/depth around them. That issue has been addressed and fixed.

Payne was an epic failure. As was Patrick Ewing at Georgetown and Chris Mullin at St. John’s. Same could be said for Archie Miller. Mike Woodson having a singular disappointing season doesn’t cross that threshold…at least not yet.

Sorry for interrupting your whine fest. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

All three of his seasons have been disappointing. The first ended with a 29 point loss in the round of 64. The second ended with a 16 point loss in the round of 32. The third ended with a 27 point loss in the BTT. How will the fourth end? 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

This is wild behavior here today.

Woodson did B- work year one.
Woodson did B work year two.
Woodson did D+ work year three

By moderate Indiana standards.

Roster building flaws, substitution pattern flaws, scouting flaws, on court offense/defense flaws.

Players seem to like him. He has been given a bag to build a winning roster. He seems to have done a good job at that, so far.

The end season behavior taking a stance against the fans ratchets up the pressure on him. He doesn’t seem intimidated by the pressure but he needs an A- or better season this year considering all the factors involved.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

All three of his seasons have been disappointing. The first ended with a 29 point loss in the round of 64. The second ended with a 16 point loss in the round of 32. The third ended with a 27 point loss in the BTT. How will the fourth end? 

All but one team ends their season with a loss. To characterize his 3 years as an “epic failure” isn’t based in reality. Last year was a disappointment all things considered. Could have stopped there, you wouldn’t have found many disagreements.

[DChoosier]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You’re the one bringing up Mike Woodson scoring 48 points in a game as proof of his almighty greatness. That was the only 40 point game of his nba career. You seem offended by folks thinking Woodson wasn’t a great nba player.

You also repeatedly talk about “3rd highest winning percentage in the past 60 years!” as if it’s supposed to mean literally anything. Great, Mike Woodson snuck by some crappy out of conference teams. He’s 31-29 in the Big 10, which has been very mediocre during his time at IU. That’s worse than Bob Knight, worse than Mike Davis, and worse than Kelvin Sampson. It’s also worse than Tom Crean’s last seven seasons at IU, and far worse than his last six seasons. 

So, Mike Woodson has a better Big 10 record than Archie Miller. Better lock him up with a lifetime contract. 

You make sh!te up and then use that as your argument. NO ONE said that Woodson was a GREAT player in the NBA. The initial post regarding his playing career called Woodson a journeyman, which without question was dismissive of his playing days, which to me implies a 5-6 point a game guy. To my surprise (I didn’t follow the NBA when he played) he averaged 14 points a game and scored nearly 11,000 points which is a far cry from being great but to last that long in the NBA, while scoring 14 a game, is a very solid career and certainly not one to be bashed.

I get calling out his college coaching, roster construction etc but to dismiss/denigrate everything else…..Just brutal (but it’s the fire Woodson thread so carry on ).

[Hoosierfan2017]

12 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

You make sh!te up and then use that as your argument. NO ONE said that Woodson was a GREAT player in the NBA. The initial post regarding his playing career called Woodson a journeyman, which without question was dismissive of his playing days, which to me implies a 5-6 point a game guy. To my surprise (I didn’t follow the NBA when he played) averaged 14 points a game and scored nearly 11,000 points which is a far cry from being great but to last that long in the NBA, while scoring 14 a game, is a very solid career and certainly not one to be bashed.

I get calling out his college coaching, roster construction etc but to dismiss/denigrate everything else…..Just brutal (but it’s the fire Woodson thread so carry on ).

The initial post, which I wrote, said that he was a mediocre NBA player. He averaged 14 ppg on below average efficiency for his career. Wasn’t much of a passer or a rebounder. No accolades of any kind. Won 7.7% of his playoff games as a player. And yes, I also later called him a journeyman. I stand by that. He played for six teams in eleven seasons. Stayed in one place longer than two seasons only once. 

And this whole conversation started in response to a post that speculated that Mike Woodson feels that he has the track record to support his arrogance based off his nba career. As I’ve said multiple times now, nothing in his nba career warrants the arrogance he’s displayed. He was a role player and then a mediocre at best coach. 

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The initial post, which I wrote, said that he was a mediocre NBA player. He averaged 14 ppg on below average efficiency for his career. Wasn’t much of a passer or a rebounder. No accolades of any kind. Won 7.7% of his playoff games as a player. And yes, I also later called him a journeyman. I stand by that. He played for six teams in eleven seasons. Stayed in one place longer than two seasons only once. 

And this whole conversation started in response to a post that speculated that Mike Woodson feels that he has the track record to support his arrogance based off his nba career. As I’ve said multiple times now, nothing in his nba career warrants the arrogance he’s displayed. He was a role player and then a mediocre at best coach. 

Imagine playing a decade plus and scoring over 10,000 points and being labeled mediocre. How on Earth do you come to that conclusion? The average shelf life of the nearly 5,000 players to play in the NBA is a mere 4 seasons. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

16 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Imagine playing a decade plus and scoring over 10,000 points and being labeled mediocre. How on Earth do you come to that conclusion? The average shelf life of the nearly 5,000 players to play in the NBA is a mere 4 seasons. 

How would you describe him then?

Look up Ricky Davis. His career numbers are very similar to Woodson’s. A little worse of a player, but certainly a better comparison than Scottie Pippen lmao. 14/2.3/2.3 on 52.2% TS for Woodson, 13.5/3.5/3.3 on 52.5% TS for Davis. 15.0 PER and -0.3 BPM for Woodson, 14.7 PER and -0.8 for Davis. .083 ws/48 for Woodson, .061 for Davis. Woodson played around 50 more games in his career than Davis. 11 seasons for Woodson, 12 for Davis. Does calling Ricky Davis a mediocre player offend anyone? 

[AH1971]

15 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

How would you describe him then? 

A quality contributor. If you never saw him play, best not to comment. Same goes for his coaching career. Based on your age, there’s a good chance you have little recollection. Took over an aging Hawks team who completely gutted its roster. Improved the teams record every single year and made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons. Hawks hadn’t made the playoffs in any of the five seasons prior to him being hired. Woodson won 54 games with the Knicks during the 2012-2013 season, they haven’t won that many games since. Knicks hired Phil Jackson in the middle of Woodson’s tenure and he wanted a coach familiar with his triangle offense. Enter Derek Fisher who didn’t last two seasons. In fact, NY had 3 different coaches (and two interims) over the course of the next 6 seasons….none sniffed a winning record. 

[Josh]

1 hour ago, Schreckbagger said:

Only if the game was apple pie baking.....just saying.

Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app
 

Or being the best at losing to the worst teams in the Big Ten.  He's the best at that

[AH1971]

20 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Look up Ricky Davis. His career numbers are very similar to Woodson’s. A little worse of a player, but certainly a better comparison than Scottie Pippen lmao. 14/2.3/2.3 on 52.2% TS for Woodson, 13.5/3.5/3.3 on 52.5% TS for Davis. 15.0 PER and -0.3 BPM for Woodson, 14.7 PER and -0.8 for Davis. .083 ws/48 for Woodson, .061 for Davis. Woodson played around 50 more games in his career than Davis. 11 seasons for Woodson, 12 for Davis. Does calling Ricky Davis a mediocre player offend anyone? 

Not offended in the least. Just taken back by such a ridiculous assertion, especially coming from someone who LITERALLY never saw him play. It’s like saying Len Dawson is mediocre because he threw for less yards than Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[RaceToTheTop]

I'm not sure what the argument is on Woodson's NBA career is here.

1.  I'm not sure what is wrong with being a mediocre player.

2.  Personally I would not describe a player with a guy who played 786 games and scored almost 11,000 points in his career as mediocre.  But to each his own.  

I think the Ricky Davis comparison is pretty on point although I would say Davis was a little better.  But I also don't consider Davis to have been a mediocre player.  IMO he was an above average or pretty good player.  Had a five year string in the middle of his career where he averaged 17.5 points/game.  

In terms of his three years coaching at IU so far, I think Wayne was fair in his ratings (see Wayne, we do agree sometimes).  Okay year one and two, not a good year last year.

[AH1971]

6 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I'm not sure what the argument is on Woodson's NBA career is here.

1.  I'm not sure what is wrong with being a mediocre player.

2.  Personally I would not describe a player with a guy who played 786 games and scored almost 11,000 points in his career as mediocre.  But to each his own.  

I think the Ricky Davis comparison is pretty on point although I would say Davis was a little better.  But I also don't consider Davis to have been a mediocre player.  IMO he was an above average or pretty good player.  Had a five year string in the middle of his career where he averaged 17.5 points/game.  

In terms of his three years coaching at IU so far, I think Wayne was fair in his ratings (see Wayne, we do agree sometimes).  Okay year one and two, not a good year last year.

If you’re comparing Woodson to guys like Magic, Bird, and Isaiah, the 3 players who dominated that era, then sure, he was mediocre. You could say that about 98% of the players in that era. But if you’re comparing Woodson to the ~5,000 guys who have donned an NBA jersey over history, there’s 10x as many guys who have enjoyed a cup of coffee compared to a guy who was a full-time starter for 50% of his decade plus tenure, I think you’re simply grasping at straws.

[MikeRoberts]

13 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

Lose by one, or lose by 100. Which columns do they both end up in. Nothing else matters. Just win Baby.

Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app
 

This makes a lot of sense now. For many of us, getting blown the f out so many times is alarming, frustrating and hard to watch but to you, it’s just an L.

We gave up more points last season than we scored. We had an overall negative scoring ratio, that has only been accomplished a few times in the entire Indiana basketball history, Woodson is in elite company

[RaceToTheTop]

15 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

Lose by one, or lose by 100. Which columns do they both end up in. Nothing else matters. Just win Baby.

Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app
 

Unfortunately that's not the case in NCAA tourney selection.  Point spreads make a difference in efficiency ratings.

[Golfman25]

2 hours ago, Schreckbagger said:

Did I say he could? I've given a few documented statistics that everyone has an opinion on, but those are still facts.

Who gives a crap about your opinion. Yell it as loud as you want, who cares. I'm happy you can say what you want, though.

Onward.....


Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app
 

You're clearly implying because of his stats as a player means he can coach.  Like most, he was an ok player.  That's it.  He wasn't a star.  He wasn't a franchise type player.  Get over yourself.   

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, DChoosier said:

You make sh!te up and then use that as your argument. NO ONE said that Woodson was a GREAT player in the NBA. The initial post regarding his playing career called Woodson a journeyman, which without question was dismissive of his playing days, which to me implies a 5-6 point a game guy. To my surprise (I didn’t follow the NBA when he played) he averaged 14 points a game and scored nearly 11,000 points which is a far cry from being great but to last that long in the NBA, while scoring 14 a game, is a very solid career and certainly not one to be bashed.

I get calling out his college coaching, roster construction etc but to dismiss/denigrate everything else…..Just brutal (but it’s the fire Woodson thread so carry on ).

Did you not just define "journeyman?"  Scoring 5-6 pts/gm makes you a bench warmer.  

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

You're clearly implying because of his stats as a player means he can coach.  Like most, he was an ok player.  That's it.  He wasn't a star.  He wasn't a franchise type player.  Get over yourself.   

So if you aren’t a franchise type player you’re simply mediocre/ok? Am I reading that right? And anything basketball related doesn’t carry weight? 

[HoosierAloha]

Third best win % doesn’t seem accurate but it wouldn’t surprise me we have some stoked about that while we’ve been dogshit for the better part of two decades and had one coach for nearly three decades of that. We’re attempting to polish that turd as best we can. Along with that outstanding winning % he’s tied for last in Big Ten regular season championships and national titles.

Had a chance to look it up. Didn’t think it was correct.

.741 - Kelvin Sampson
.735 - Bob Knight
.677 - Branch McCracken
.612 - Mike Woodson
.592 - Mike Davis
.552 - Tom Crean
.536 - Archie Miller
.520 - Lou Watson
.190 - Jerry Oliver

Fourth best win % out of nine coaches without a conference title like the two coaches immediately after him in win % who were fired for not winning enough. Seems like a solid argument from those who quickly forgot he’s not a good coach. He’s been a mediocre coach who is getting mediocre results. He hasn’t met or exceeded expectations as an IU coach. That might be good enough for some but I’d like to see IU have a little higher expectations.