They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[IndyResident16]

22 minutes ago, btownqb said:

How can you possibly know all of that? or know enough to even speculate that? 

If you say you have inside info, I'll believe you, but... holy cow-- do you know Quinn? As a BOT member QB trumps Dolson? Seems like your frustration should be with SD more than QB, to begin with. 

For Dolson's sake it better be true. 

I'd hate to think it was actually Scott Dolson's idea to hire Mike Woodson. That makes it worse lol. 

[Adillac]

I think if IU loses the rest of their games or wins just one more, then he gets canned. I think it's more likely that they win another 3-4 games somehow, and he stays for another year. He gets let go or "retires" after next year unless they make a miraculous run to the FF (which won't happen ofc). 

[AZ Hoosier]

38 minutes ago, btownqb said:

How can you possibly know all of that? or know enough to even speculate that? 

If you say you have inside info, I'll believe you, but... holy cow-- do you know Quinn? As a BOT member QB trumps Dolson? Seems like your frustration should be with SD more than QB, to begin with. 

Buckner and Woodson are buds. If the stories are true, Buckner was the one who forced Dolson to hire Woodson... and as chair of the BOT, Buckner is at the top of the food chain. He can get what he wants from the BOT, and the BOT has the authority to do pretty much whatever it wants, within the confines of state law. If Buckner got a wild hair and decided to fire President Whitten, he could get it done... so as long as Buckner wants Woodson to be the head coach, Woodson will be the head coach.

[Hoosier987]

25 minutes ago, Trish said:

This is Indiana. We don’t do the NIT. - Fred Glass,

Don't disagree...but unfortunately, we've sucked for so long that NIT's aren't going off the rail anymore. I'm basing this off what we've seen the last 20 + year. Hell, we've made only the tournament 50% of the time  and even worse, we've only had 3 real teams that had enough talent to win the Title : 2002, 2008, 2013 teams and 0 teams in the last decade. They're becoming fewer and further between. Tough pill to swallow. 

[CSP]

7 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Buckner and Woodson are buds. If the stories are true, Buckner was the one who forced Dolson to hire Woodson... and as chair of the BOT, Buckner is at the top of the food chain. He can get what he wants from the BOT, and the BOT has the authority to do pretty much whatever it wants, within the confines of state law. If Buckner got a wild hair and decided to fire President Whitten, he could get it done... so as long as Buckner wants Woodson to be the head coach, Woodson will be the head coach.

Doesn't surprise me they are friends... 

what stories? 

Forced Dolson to hire him? I doubt it. 

I don't believe that's how the BOT work. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

Doesn't surprise me they are friends... 

what stories? 

Forced Dolson to hire him? I doubt it. 

I don't believe that's how the BOT work. 

I don’t remember who it originated from, but the word the past week or so on here is that Buckner pushed hard for Woodson after Brad turned IU down, aka forced the hire.

[kottke]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Would be a 100% strong choice. The guy can coach, he can REALLY recruit, and the buyout and salary would be within reason.

And IUProf illustrates an important point: There are most certainly more than a few coaches in their 40's that have the potential to be the next Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl, Scott Drew, Mark Few, etc. 

I understand the Archie PTSD; it's real and it's warranted.

But that doesn't change the fact that when the time comes, rather than pursuing pipe-dreams of already established 58-65 year old elite coaches, we should want to identify the next elite coach and program head.

Well said.

It's kind of like drafting a quarterback in the NFL. Most of top drafted quarterbacks don't end up being generational talents, but you still need to keep taking a swing at getting one of those. If you get the quarterback right, everything else follows. Same here, get the right coach (for the love of God let the next one be the right one) and everything else falls into place. 

[Stuhoo]

9 minutes ago, kottke said:

Well said.

It's kind of like drafting a quarterback in the NFL. Most of top drafted quarterbacks don't end up being generational talents, but you still need to keep taking a swing at getting one of those. If you get the quarterback right, everything else follows. Same here, get the right coach (for the love of God let the next one be the right one) and everything else falls into place. 

Also well said. 

And unlike with an NFL quarterback, if a school with the financial resources of IU gets it right, it is a 20-25 year success, not 5-10.

[GnarlyNormEllenberger]

A few thoughts...

-RE: Shooting. Has Woodson ever really highlighted shooting as a problem? That's an honest question. I know he has repeatedly pushed back against any notion that our lack of perimeter shooting is an issue. What I have heard him say is that guys need to hit the shots we take... which doesn't really address any issue. I say this because I've heard some mention they believe we're only a couple of good shooters away from being a good team. But when has Woodson ever addressed shooting through recruiting? He has with McKneeley, but outside of that... not so much. It appears he has passed on the opportunity to recruit better shooters in favor of chasing NBA-style/blue-chip players. Does he view shooting to be a problem? I'm not so sure. This leads me to my next point...

-RE: Style of Play: Has Woodson shown in three years that he likes running plays for shooters? Not really. He has mentioned it "wasn't his job to run plays for Miller Kopp" despite Kopp being one of the better shooters in the Big Ten. No other player has shown much proficiency scoring from the outside in his tenure. Some guys have hit high percentages but on low attempts. Which begs the question... is this appealing to the prospective perimeter help next year/beyond? What we have seen is a style predicated heavily on running two posts along with a wing that may even be better utilized as a stretch-4 in modern basketball (TJD/Race/Kopp and Ware/Reneau/Mgbako.) It would not appear we are an attractive destination for top-notch shooter... even if we felt the need to prioritize them.

-RE: Injuries/"Next Man Up": We've heard Woodson say "it's next man up" for much of the season. This implies that the standard does not change despite the availability of certain players. It implies "you have to be ready when your name is called." We're not. Our roster construction does not help this... which leads to the next point...

-RE: Roster Construction: I've heard some express concern that firing Woodson would lead to an overhaul of the roster. From my perspective, an overhaul of the roster appears inevitable regardless. X and Walker are gone for sure. Galloway and Leal TBD. Ware is a pretty safe bet to go pro. Mgbako wanted to be one and done and it hasn't worked out like that at IU... will he stay here or try his luck elsewhere (just like Ware did with Oregon.) Gunn, Banks and Sparks are struggling to find the court and Cupps has astoundingly low levels of offensive production. It's not hard to fathom any of those guys leaving. Meanwhile, we're currently bringing in one guy (McNeely) when we're realistically gonna have to have at least another 5-man class coming in next year. Can we reasonably trust this coaching staff to construct a sure-fire NCAA Tournament roster through the portal after seeing what happened this year? Maybe... but it takes a fair amount of faith in the staff.

-RE: "My Goal Is To Win Championships": Woodson said this repeatedly his first couple of years. Right now we're nowhere close. How does he change this?

-RE: The Numbers: The most important statistic at the end of the day is our overall win/loss record. Looking at advanced statistics like AdjO, AdjD, etc. I am quite surprised we're as good as 13-9 (5-6). Can even this meager win percentage be sustained for the remainder of the year? Statistics and predictive measures suggest otherwise. But games aren't played on paper. This is where adjustments play a role. We'll see what happens.

-RE: Fan support: We've seen it time and time again. Once you lose the fans the writing is on the wall. It was with Davis, Crean and Archie. It was with Tom Allen and Bill Lynch and Gerry Dinardo. You have to have hope. A reason for optimism. A realistic belief of good times ahead. Have we reached that point with Woodson. I don't know. As Woody says himself, "Only time will tell." If this season ends with many more losses... I think you'll have the answer.

[maharkn]

Woodson's hand may be forced to make the staff change. At the bare minimum, change needs to be made for optic purposes. 

These guys are supposed to be recruiters and aren't getting it done. Need to lose one of them and bring in an offensive coordinator. Probably ya because I'm not sure what his contribution is, banks maybe and that was a major swing and a miss

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[coonhounds]

Did anyone listen to Woodson first few radio shows after he took this job? He said some things that really scared me. He was use to teaching kids that already knew alot of skills and was surprised how much he had to teach them about the game.
He said after our first couple games he needed to learn the college rules cause he didn't understand alot of the calls. There were several other concerning things he said those are just a couple off the top of my head. Nobody should be surprised this didn't work out imo. You can't hire a guy with zero experience in the field which is exactly what we did

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[AZ Hoosier]

45 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Doesn't surprise me they are friends... 

what stories? 

Forced Dolson to hire him? I doubt it. 

I don't believe that's how the BOT work. 

just sharing what I am hearing... and to answer a question from an earlier post, no, I am not connected any more than any of us here are... just doing my part to be an agent of change...

[IUHoosierJoe]

1 hour ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Buckner and Woodson are buds. If the stories are true, Buckner was the one who forced Dolson to hire Woodson... and as chair of the BOT, Buckner is at the top of the food chain. He can get what he wants from the BOT, and the BOT has the authority to do pretty much whatever it wants, within the confines of state law. If Buckner got a wild hair and decided to fire President Whitten, he could get it done... so as long as Buckner wants Woodson to be the head coach, Woodson will be the head coach.

I’ve heard that “forced” isn’t the right word, “talked him into it” is more accurate.

[AZ Hoosier]

Just now, IUHoosierJoe said:

I’ve heard that “forced” isn’t the right word, “talked him into it” is more accurate.

poTAto - poTAHto... when you're the top of the food chain, is there really a difference? 

[IUHoosierJoe]

1 minute ago, AZ Hoosier said:

poTAto - poTAHto... when you're the top of the food chain, is there really a difference? 

Yeah, I think there’s a difference.

[Hornsby]

But then there's Buckner to deal with... win/lose/draw, Buckner's got Woodson's back... and as solid of a move as it would be to send Woodson packing, I just don't see it happening with Buckner is the saddle.

Buckner coaching record in the nba was .169 so he probably thinks oodson is overachieving

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[str8baller]

1 hour ago, kottke said:

Well said.

It's kind of like drafting a quarterback in the NFL. Most of top drafted quarterbacks don't end up being generational talents, but you still need to keep taking a swing at getting one of those. If you get the quarterback right, everything else follows. Same here, get the right coach (for the love of God let the next one be the right one) and everything else falls into place. 

Not a bad analogy. But if that’s the philosophy, the argument in favor of firing coaches sooner rather than later is strong. It gets you many more bites at the apple, so to speak. 

[Hornsby]

just sharing what I am hearing... and to answer a question from an earlier post, no, I am not connected any more than any of us here are... just doing my part to be an agent of change...

I mean it is also common sense or dolson is really an idiot if the Woodson hire was his idea.

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[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Not a bad analogy. But if that’s the philosophy, the argument in favor of firing coaches sooner rather than later is strong. It gets you many more bites at the apple, so to speak. 

The difference being, if ya fire them too soon and too often, no one worth a crap wants to take on the job , or at least not when they have other good options. Under the fire em sooner rather than later theory, Fred Hoiberg and Chris Collins would've been long gone from the B1G.

[Golfman25]

58 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Did anyone listen to Woodson first few radio shows after he took this job? He said some things that really scared me. He was use to teaching kids that already knew alot of skills and was surprised how much he had to teach them about the game.
He said after our first couple games he needed to learn the college rules cause he didn't understand alot of the calls. There were several other concerning things he said those are just a couple off the top of my head. Nobody should be surprised this didn't work out imo. You can't hire a guy with zero experience in the field which is exactly what we did

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You can if the guy comes in eyes wide open and ready to get to work.  It's freaking basketball.  Lets not overcomplicate it.  Put round ball in round hoop. 

All great coaches have one thing in common -- the ability to adapt.  They all have big egos, but the great one's egos are fueled by winning and they'll adapt to get the win.  Woody could have been successful if he was willing to adapt.  Instead he froze out the experienced college coaches/advisors and brought in some sleeply NBA guys.  It was his way or the highway.  Well, here we are and as far as I'm concerned he can hit the highway. 

I'm sick and fkg tired of losing to ________ -- fill in the blank: Purdue, Wisconsin, ILL, Rutgers, and now Penn State.