Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[schoosier 3,472]

1 hour ago, IU Prof said:

I'm not sure how you can claim to both be a long-time IU Insider and also an expert on the interworkings of other major universities. IU is an unusually insular and incompetently run institution, based on my experience at a variety of universities, in ways that most IU lifers fail to appreciate or understand. So if you have the longitudinal perspective of IU decision-making processes that you've suggested, then I don't think you are in a particularly strong position to discuss how similar or dissimilar IU's processes are to other, more competently run institutions.

Thanks for your insight. I would love to hear more about how IU is an incompetently run university from your experience. How does this affect men’s basketball? If Woody does not indeed report to Dolson, this may be an example of this.

[iu eyedoc 1,897]

Is it gone? Is it safe to come out?

[AKHoosier 6,803]

50 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Don’t know if it was already covered but also on the podcast they all said that it’s confirmed Woody does not report to Scott Dolson. Apparently Dolson has said as much to Evans. Evans felt it was important that everyone know this is “not Scott’s guy” and the HH dweebs said fans should all back up Scott if they want a change, which they then sort of softened on/backed off on because they probably realized they were setting things up to go full nuclear.

Screw Woodrow

Maybe this is why Scott Dolson never made a public show of support last year on behalf of Mike Woodson when there was so much noise toward the end of the season.

[SlammySammy 67]

Kathy, My recommendation is to go to another thread. We all know you are a plant from the Woody team or the administration. We see through the bs. This is a thread for those of us who want Woody gone. Maybe you start a thread and call it "101 Ways to Build a Program with Mike Woodson"....we will all wait for the laughter.

[Dave from Dayton 3,150]

[HoosierX 1,542]

2 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

Not sure exactly what position K with C holds at IU, but I actually thought she shared some interesting insights. 

What I took exception with was she seemed to imply that this calling for Woody to be ousted was born from the crap show in the Bahamas -- that it were some sort of impulsive reaction from a bunch of whiny know-nothing fusspots over two early season losses.

That clearly is not the case. This recent upheaval goes much deeper. Obviously, there are myriad reasons (outdated style of play, a half-dozen or so blowouts last year, recruiting misses, and on and on and on) -- but she continually seem to insinuate that we're just silly, impatient fan boys and fan girls on a fan board who hadn't thought this through. 

I don't know that anybody said they wanted Woody ousted right this minute -- though maybe some have. I don't see what purpose it would serve, particularly when it doesn't seem as if there's anybody capable of running the team in the interim. But I do want him gone after the season -- even though we've played only seven games. I wanted him gone after last season. I've seen enough to know that the program is not on a good trajectory, and won't be as long as Woody's at the helm. 

She referred to Crean and Miller being misses and bad hires. That did turn out to be the case, but I look at it this way. When Crean was hired away from Marquette, he had been considered for bigger, better jobs. When Archie was hired away from Dayton, he had been considered for bigger, better jobs. When we hired Woody -- there was NOT one other school or program that would've hired him as a HC. To me -- that's pretty much all you need to know. 

And I doubt there is a single other division 1 school that would even give him an interview if he were available right now. He's not a good coach for division 1 level, pure and simple. We are mediocre instead of just plain terrible because we have the talent to overcome his coaching a lot of the itme.

[IUFAN1976 2,985]

2 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

And I doubt there is a single other division 1 school that would even give him an interview if he were available right now. He's not a good coach for division 1 level, pure and simple. We are mediocre instead of just plain terrible because we have the talent to overcome his coaching a lot of the itme.

Except when he faces a team with equal or better talent and a better coach, then the outcome is what we experienced in the Bahamas.  Heck, the talent doesn’t have to be as good as IU’s, like Nebraska last year and Louisville this year, he will always be out coached.  He’s proven to me that they really don’t coach in the NBA, they just buy the best talent available and let them play.  He coaches like he’s in the NBA, not at all!

[Brass Cannon 24,620]

3 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Except when he faces a team with equal or better talent and a better coach, then the outcome is what we experienced in the Bahamas.  Heck, the talent doesn’t have to be as good as IU’s, like Nebraska last year and Louisville this year, he will always be out coached.  He’s proven to me that they really don’t coach in the NBA, they just buy the best talent available and let them play.  He coaches like he’s in the NBA, not at all!

Not fair to lump NBA coaches in with him. He sucked at that too 

[go iu bb 5,798]

10 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

You think most of those people know more about basketball than Quinn?  Uh, no. Not even close. Most of them hadn’t even been ADs before we hired them.

You say that Buckner knows a lot about basketball. I believe that, he should as a former player and (a very bad) coach. Yet you also claim that the nepotism on his part and the half-a$$ed "coaching" on Woodson's part is due to their love of IU basketball and not because of ego or money.

Somehow they don't recognize the terrible product on the floor? They don't see the win/loss record and all the blowouts? How can these two do this to the program they supposedly love if not for ego and money since they know so much about basketball? 

No effort has been made on either's part to make the changes necessary to actually produce a winning team. That means they either don't understand or they just don't care. Since everyone agrees that it isn't the former, it must be the latter. Why? The obvious answers are money and/or ego.

They're ruining their legacies because of it. Fans under 50 don't remember them as players, just what they're seeing now. What is being shown now isn't a good look.

[DChoosier 8,312]

8 hours ago, HoosierTrav said:

I just finished listening to the latest Hoosier Hysterics podcast, and I have to say—it was pretty scathing.  I’ve never been a huge fan of their style. To me, it always felt a bit corny and over-the-top, so I never paid them much attention. But this episode was a complete departure from what I expected. It wasn’t just speculation; it was a detailed, scathing breakdown of rumors and allegations that have been floating around the state for years.

 

Here’s what really struck me: the immediate pushback from certain people trying to dismiss everything as conspiracy or conjecture. It reeks of damage control. How many times have we seen smoke only to find fire later? These aren’t new allegations, and the podcast gave them a clarity that’s hard to ignore.

 

Let’s talk about the elephant in the room—Mike Woodson. From Cathy’s own admission, Scott Dolson didn’t even want to hire him. Instead, Quinn Buckner, who happens to be the Chair of the Board of Trustees and one of Woodson’s closest friend’s, allegedly forced the hire. Are there legs to the rumor that Buckner is preventing Woodson’s removal despite his poor performance? Particularly last season. 

 

Doesn’t this scream conflict of interest? This is a state university—taxpayer-funded and bound by ethical guidelines. How is cronyism like this allowed? IU has specific policies about conflicts of interest and personal relationships interfering with objective decision-making. If true, this situation violates the spirit of those rules at the very least.

 

I’m genuinely curious—what are our options as fans, alumni, and taxpayers? Could this be investigated by the Indiana Attorney General or the State Board of Accounts? After all, these decisions involve public revenue, and the implications of cronyism at the top of a state-funded institution go beyond just bad optics.

 

At the very least, shouldn’t we be pushing for:

    1.    An independent investigation into these allegations, either internally or by an external body like the Attorney General?

    2.    More transparency in decision-making for IU leadership, especially in hires that impact the program’s future.

    3.    A governance overhaul to ensure that personal friendships don’t dictate the program’s direction.

 

I’d love to hear what others think about this. The Hoosier Hysterics podcast has clearly hit a nerve, and the timing of this damage control campaign only makes me more skeptical. Are we being gaslit into thinking this is just baseless speculation? Or is there a possibility for real accountability?

 

It doesn’t make it right but cronyism using tax dollars has happened since….forever.

[DChoosier 8,312]

1 hour ago, SlammySammy said:

Kathy, My recommendation is to go to another thread. We all know you are a plant from the Woody team or the administration. We see through the bs. This is a thread for those of us who want Woody gone. Maybe you start a thread and call it "101 Ways to Build a Program with Mike Woodson"....we will all wait for the laughter.

I guess I’m virtually a lone voice here but I don’t see where she is saying “build a program with Mike Woodson”. Nor does she say Woodson is doing a good job.

Her reporting that the powers that be are not ready to pull the trigger on Woodson, after the Bahamas, isn’t her saying he should stay. Some of the posts seem to imply that.
I find some of the info interesting/depressing (they knew Allen couldn’t coach for several years, they didn’t freak out about the Bahamas (which is depressing to hear as I would have hoped they were freaking out over the Bahamas,) cognitive issues might be in play, etc etc).

In any case I think he will be gone at the end of April either being forced out (by far the most likely) or taking a victory lap retirement after a good season which is highly doubtful based on the Bahamas and previous years. Against Louisville and Gonzaga we literally looked like a team that had never practiced. I think Goode was almost freaking out because he couldn’t believe how poor the effort/play was (he seems to “care” even though  he can’t hit anything).  
 

The positive thing about the portal is that hiring a new coach doesn’t mean four years are needed for a turnaround. A broken clock is right twice a day so maybe the Administration will actually hire the right person this time. Maybe?Hopefully?

[JSHoosier 20,084]

10 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

You think most of those people know more about basketball than Quinn?  Uh, no. Not even close. Most of them hadn’t even been ADs before we hired them.

Being good players doesn’t mean they're good coaches or can choose good coaches. Buckner was a terrible coach. Isiah Thomas was a great player and horrible coach and executive. Woodson is a lousy coach. That's not uncommon either, they weren't the first good players to be awful on the other side of things and certainly won't be the last. 

[bird4par 263]

17 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

We locked in on Miller, to the exclusion of anyone else and to the whispers that he wasn’t ready for a big time job. Quite a few people knew he was a long shot. Woodson was as ready as Miller, if not more so.

If IU hadn't hired AM, tO$U would have.

[8bucks 6,429]

9 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I guess I’m virtually a lone voice here but I don’t see where she is saying “build a program with Mike Woodson”. Nor does she say Woodson is doing a good job.

Her reporting that the powers that be are not ready to pull the trigger on Woodson, after the Bahamas, isn’t her saying he should stay. Some of the posts seem to imply that.
I find some of the info interesting/depressing (they knew Allen couldn’t coach for several years, they didn’t freak out about the Bahamas (which is depressing to hear as I would have hoped they were freaking out over the Bahamas,) cognitive issues might be in play, etc etc).

In any case I think he will be gone at the end of April either being forced out (by far the most likely) or taking a victory lap retirement after a good season which is highly doubtful based on the Bahamas and previous years. Against Louisville and Gonzaga we literally looked like a team that had never practiced. I think Goode was almost freaking out because he couldn’t believe how poor the effort/play was (he seems to “care” even though  he can’t hit anything).  
 

The positive thing about the portal is that hiring a new coach doesn’t mean four years are needed for a turnaround. A broken clock is right twice a day do maybe the Administration will actually hire the right person this time. Maybe?Hopefully?

Yeah, it seems more of a tap the brakes, it is a process, we don't have good decision makers in the process ....

She/he does seem a little more supportive of Dolson than when they posted before.  I could be wrong, but I thought they indicated he should not be trusted yet to make decisions whereas now they admit that Dolson has a bit more momentum/leverage.

Overall, I think it likely that the ADs office got word of the hysterics podcast or anger from the Bahama's play and sent someone out to try and temper the angst.  Not to support Woody but calm the torch bearers for a bit.  

[DChoosier 8,312]

1 minute ago, bird4par said:

If IU hadn't hired AM, tO$U would have.

Agree.

Miller was a horrible coach but he was one of the hottest young coaches in the country and had success at Dayton. Although he was a terrible “swing and a miss” it was not a mystifying hire.

However when it came to Woodsons hire, as many have noted, literally no other program in the country (college or pro) would have considered him for a head coach job. That alone says it all.

[Chris007 43,886]

17 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

Absolutely none of this do you know to be a fact. I get the rumor and innuendo and your reliance on it as fact, but it’s still not anything you know to be true.

I was going to try to sit this one out but some of us actually know a few of these things to be fact. I have heard a few of these stories straight from people who were in the room. Maybe Scott, the athletic office or B of T want to ride this season out but I spoke to some people who write major checks over the weekend and are tired of getting blown out in every major nonconference games. I'll leave it at that. I know Kathie comes from a good place and she is correct in how things will work out but there is a lot more going on then she is leading on. 

[Hoosier DaDa 2,383]

22 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Has AD Dolson seen the way we defend the perimeter? lol

[bird4par 263]

11 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I don’t think Kathy is wrong.

AD’s don’t make these hire/fire decisions in a vacuum or on their own.

Do you think the A&M AD came to the conclusion to fire Jimbo on his own even though Jimbo was owed 75 million?

Kudos to SD for firing Allen but there is no way in hell he fired him, with a 17mm buyout, without consulting the “stakeholders”.

Good or bad it’s reality.

Someone should be fired for giving a high school coach a 17 mil buyout.

[Pagoda 199]

No Cathy so far today.  She/he must be staffed on game day activities, no time to defend Woody on the message boards.

Edited December 3 by Pagoda

[AZ Hoosier 6,909]

I was going to try to sit this one out but some of us actually know a few of these things to be fact. I have heard a few of these stories straight from people who were in the room. Maybe Scott, the athletic office or B of T want to ride this season out but I spoke to some people who write major checks over the weekend and are tired of getting blown out in every major nonconference games. I'll leave it at that. I know Kathie comes from a good place and she is correct in how things will work out but there is a lot more going on then she is leading on. 

Wondered where you were hiding :)

As always, appreciate you weighing in, albeit ever so briefly.