IUBB @ Nebraska - Wednesday, 01.03.24 @ 9:00 ET on BTN

[Hornsby]

MD resigned during the year our team was a 7th seed and finished 4th in conference. Imagine if DJ never got hurt that year... My, times have changed.

Yep dj getting hurt was a huge blow that team could probably been top two big ten with him.

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[Hornsby]

Davis never should've gotten a 2nd year anyways. Not with Pitino coming back around.

At yet we are told you can't fire archie or Woodson after three years what kind of message would that send. Good lord no wonder we stink.

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[Hoosier DaDa]

3 hours ago, Josh said:

Why stop there?  We don't know how to find a man to box out on rebounds either

If we are listing our kryptonite 68% from the foul line pitiful.  Our shooting guard is 52%.  If little Trey knocked on my door for a free-throw-a-thon I would be very generous knowing I wouldn't have to pay much. 

[Uspshoosier]

2 hours ago, Hornsby said:

At yet we are told you can't fire archie or Woodson after three years

Who told you?  Random people on a free message board?  I was told you don’t always have to take what random people on a free message board say as fact 

[AZ Hoosier]

Just now, Uspshoosier said:

Who told you?  Random people on a free message board?  I was told you don’t always have to take what random people on a free message board as say as fact 

I read somewhere that Woody's buyout after this season is $12.5M. I have to wonder of the boosters and donors who fund such things ever get tired of shelling out big bucks to make coaches go away, only to see Glass, Dolson, et al rinse and repeat over and over and over?

I'd be like "I bailed your butt out once, you're on your one this time, Scotty boy".

[Hoosier987]

3 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

I read somewhere that Woody's buyout after this season is $12.5M. I have to wonder of the boosters and donors who fund such things ever get tired of shelling out big bucks to make coaches go away, only to see Glass, Dolson, et al rinse and repeat over and over and over?

I'd be like "I bailed your butt out once, you're on your one this time, Scotty boy".

There's a lot of factors involved regarding buying out Woodson, especially since he's a former player. It's not going to happen. It would need to be some sort of nudge or agreement. We're in a bad spot but I'm not sure this program can afford another coaching change. If Woodson doesn't get it together, this program may be toast. 

[Chris007]

24 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

At yet we are told you can't fire archie or Woodson after three years what kind of message would that send. Good lord no wonder we stink.

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Who said Pitino really came back around? LCS 

[Chris007]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

There's a lot of factors involved regarding buying out Woodson, especially since he's a former player. It's not going to happen. It would need to be some sort of nudge or agreement. We're in a bad spot but I'm not sure this program can afford another coaching change. If Woodson doesn't get it together, this program may be toast. 

No booster is going to pay that buyout this year when you can wait till April of next year and the buyout is practically nothing. 

[Kentuckysucks]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

No booster is going to pay that buyout this year when you can wait till April of next year and the buyout is practically nothing. 

They did to buyout Archie.  I think his buyout was set to drop to a little over $3M a year later.

[Chris007]

Just now, Kentuckysucks said:

They did to buyout Archie.  I think his buyout was set to drop to a little over $3M a year later.

And they bought out Allen too.  So in the last 4 years, we've paid 25 million in buyouts. Why spend another 12 million when you can save that for the next coach? 

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

And they bought out Allen too.  So in the last 4 years, we've paid 25 million in buyouts. Why spend another 12 million when you can save that for the next coach? 

One reason? As an actuarial exercise it can be a financially astute decision. The buyout can be offset by increased booster donations, merch sales, and ticket/concession sales with a new coach.

I’m quite sure it has not gotten anywhere near the time to consider that equation with Woody, but with Tom Allen the increased revenue will more than offset the large buyout amount.

[coonhounds]

The program is in trouble when the Baby Boomers are gone and Gen X starts to pass.  I am the tail end of Gen X. I was a senior when Knight was fired.  I was 21 at the time and we made the NCAA tournament all but 1 year of my life up to that point.  We have made it 12 times since and 6 of those 12 occurred within 8 years of him being let go.  I had my oldest son in 2008.  We have only made the tournament 6 times in his 15 years.  He isn't really interested much at all and I don't think he is an outlier for his age group.
This program has a really big problem if it doesn't change things quick.  Those who remember what it was are not getting any younger and those behind us haven't had a whole lot to want to throw time and money behind.  We are well on our way to being Iowa in a generation.

I somehow got my 12 year old daughter to follow and love iu basketball. Tjd helped lol. I am sure other diehard iu fans have similar results in growing diehard iu fans for the future. If iu administration could quit putting a trash product out it would definitely help. I used to never turn off games but auburn and nebraska was to much. Not because of how bad we were losing but because the product is so bad. Archie and Woodson basketball when we're playing bad is almost unbearable imo. Not fun to watch

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[realTomCrean]

2 hours ago, Home Jersey said:

I don't have a problem with calling out your players in the press. I just think he didn't also adequately acknowledge the role the staff had in this loss (awful game plan). I know he doesn't enjoy dealing with the press and you're unlikely to ever get real insight from press conferences anyway, but it does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. The locker room must be (should be) pretty tense right now. 

I agree with you. The Allick guy on Nebraska is the offensive equivalent to Zack McRoberts (no joke)… Mgbako closed out leaping at him and he just passed it off to Wilcher for a wide open 3, we guarded Allick 10 ft past the 3pt line in the 2H - at what point does the staff make an adjustment? Ware guarded their C 5ft past the 3 line, why?  Does the coaching staff scout, and if they do, do they make a comprehensive plan? If so, maybe it’s just me not seeing any plan or direction for the players. We guard non-shooters, collapse to triple team in the post, don’t box out, don’t get many 50/50 balls, and aside from Reneau Gallo and maybe Cupps we do not get on the ground. The offense is equally disappointing as IU seemingly has the laziest offensive game plan of my fandom life: first play of half we run to get PG or SF a clean look and then after that IU simply dumps to post and stands around perimeter w/ limited cutters. Walker and Gallo cut decently, but when teams have 3-4 defenders touching the paint it ruins the effectiveness of any cutter. I’m just touching on effort intangibles, not mentioning lack of shooting prowess, FT ineffectiveness, speed disparity, and lack of a true playmaker. 
 

I’m not a coach, nor do I pretend to be, hell I scored 8 points in my entire basketball career - but I’ve watched every single IU game sans maybe(!) 10 games since 2010 + thousands of other CBB games and the things mentioned above our all easily apparent, even to guys like me.
 

Isn’t IU supposed to have players that have unrelenting effort and basketball IQ, that’s the MO historically that is associated with IU. Isn’t IU supposed to have one of the best X&O coaching staffs? I’m all for 5* 1&Done but if we can’t get some player development out of our 6 year PG and Sr SG what kind of program is being ran in Btown? We have two Sophomore players w/ ++ athletic ability but their basketball skills/IQ make them both unplayable. Some of that is on the player, sure, but more so it screams that there is lack of development by the staff. Woody said he understands IUBB and I’m sure he does, he’s seemingly a great guy and I want him to win but the product that’s been displayed for the most part in the last 2.5 years screams that it is lazy coaching/preparation. It’s like they (players and coaches) have the cool guy mentality - as a HS FB coach the cool guy mentality is something I wanted to break in players asap - it is the antithesis of winning. If you stuck around to read this you’re a trooper. Thanks for letting me vent
 

**Edit: I’m adding more. If Woodson was 10-20 years younger a bad season is tolerable, but with his age and his own set standards (national/B1G championship) is it even possible to get past all of these deficiencies in the next 2 years? My guess is it is not.

Style of play will limit IU from getting the best guards out of the portal, we are a forward oriented team. We may be a tourney team this year and next, but being a tourney team and having an actual chance at winning it all are worlds apart. I love Woodson but if I’m a stakeholder in IUBB in any capacity and want to see another banner, the writing is on the wall. I’d love for Woodson to play Armond Hill’s role and be an advisor/ambassador for the program as long as he’d like. In fact I think that’s important for the future, but if IU is serious about hanging a banner there has to be a change.  

[Trish]

25 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

And they bought out Allen too.  So in the last 4 years, we've paid 25 million in buyouts. Why spend another 12 million when you can save that for the next coach? 

All that money to get access to the suite in Assembly Hall and Memorial Stadium, the life of a booster! 

[coonhounds]

I agree with you. The Allick guy on Nebraska is the offensive equivalent to Zack McRoberts (no joke)… Mgbako closed out leaping at him and he just passed it off to Wilcher for a wide open 3, we guarded Allick 10 ft past the 3pt line in the 2H - at what point does the staff make an adjustment? Ware guarded their C 5ft past the 3 line, why?  Does the coaching staff scout, and if they do, do they make a comprehensive plan? If so, maybe it’s just me not seeing any plan or direction for the players. We guard non-shooters, collapse to triple team in the post, don’t box out, don’t get many 50/50 balls, and aside from Reneau Gallo and maybe Cupps we do not get on the ground. The offense is equally disappointing as IU seemingly has the laziest offensive game plan of my fandom life: first play of half we run to get PG or SF a clean look and then after that IU simply dumps to post and stands around perimeter w/ limited cutters. Walker and Gallo cut decently, but when teams have 3-4 defenders touching the paint it ruins the effectiveness of any cutter. I’m just touching on effort intangibles, not mentioning lack of shooting prowess, FT ineffectiveness, speed disparity, and lack of a true playmaker. 
 
I’m not a coach, nor do I pretend to be, hell I scored 8 points in my entire basketball career - but I’ve watched every single IU game sans maybe(!) 10 games since 2010 + thousands of other CBB games and the things mentioned above our all easily apparent, even to guys like me.
 
Isn’t IU supposed to have players that have unrelenting effort and basketball IQ, that’s the MO historically that is associated with IU. Isn’t IU supposed to have one of the best X&O coaching staffs? I’m all for 5* 1&Done but if we can’t get some player development out of our 6 year PG and Sr SG what kind of program is being ran in Btown? We have two Sophomore players w/ ++ athletic ability but their basketball skills/IQ make them both unplayable. Some of that is on the player, sure, but more so it screams that there is lack of development by the staff. Woody said he understands IUBB and I’m sure he does, he’s seemingly a great guy and I want him to win but the product that’s been displayed for the most part in the last 2.5 years screams that it is lazy coaching/preparation. It’s like they (players and coaches) have the cool guy mentality - as a HS FB coach the cool guy mentality is something I wanted to break in players asap - it is the antithesis of winning. If you stuck around to read this you’re a trooper. Thanks for letting me vent 

Oh I read the entire thing and I agree with everything you said except that you never coached! Realtomcrean! You had us rolling and I thought you were going to be the guy! Then when you had to start coaching it got sketchy. Still a more entertaining product by far than I have seen since you left! Your last year was crap though definitely

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[Hornsby]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Who told you?  Random people on a free message board?  I was told you don’t always have to take what random people on a free message board say  as fact 

Yes that is who. They simply cannot believe you would fire a guy until he gets 5 years minimum. They love to use coach k as an example over and over.

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[Hornsby]

I read somewhere that Woody's buyout after this season is $12.5M. I have to wonder of the boosters and donors who fund such things ever get tired of shelling out big bucks to make coaches go away, only to see Glass, Dolson, et al rinse and repeat over and over and over?
I'd be like "I bailed your butt out once, you're on your one this time, Scotty boy".

Whoever bailed him out to fire archie I don't think was expecting the hire to be Woodson. So yes I think they are probably done now.

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[realTomCrean]

2 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Oh I read the entire thing and I agree with everything you said except that you never coached! Realtomcrean! You had us rolling and I thought you were going to be the guy! Then when you had to start coaching it got sketchy. Still a more entertaining product by far than I have seen since you left! Your last year was crap though definitely

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People hate Crean pretty unanimously and I loved ribbing him so much on Twitter the dude blocked me. I wasn’t mean or rude, just clowned him too much. Little did he know I was one of his biggest supporters - Yogi, Hulls, Sheehey, Zeller, Watford, JBJ, R Johnson, OG, Morgan, Ziesloft, Williams, Bielfedt, Hartmann, Bryant, Williams man Crean made it fun to watch IU. They could beat anyone at any given time (or lose to anyone) but the talent was top tier, the effort was top tier, his players had pride in Indiana and it was visible. I loved it. And there was player development!!  Crean was a Def. Coordinator away from becoming a powerhouse. Again if IU is serious, they ask Woodson to step down and they have a short list (Beard, May, Stevens, + more) with the biggest checkbook they can muster and say “we want a championship and it doesn’t matter how much we pay to get it” .. In the NIL era, if Cigs has taught us anything we can compete in year 1, look at Beard at Ole Miss. Sucks the realization is here again for a new coach but it is what it is. I’m so damn tired of Purdue, UK, and Sampson being good while IU is run of the mill. 

[Home Jersey]

5 minutes ago, realTomCrean said:

I agree with you. The Allick guy on Nebraska is the offensive equivalent to Zack McRoberts (no joke)… Mgbako closed out leaping at him and he just passed it off to Wilcher for a wide open 3, we guarded Allick 10 ft past the 3pt line in the 2H - at what point does the staff make an adjustment? Ware guarded their C 5ft past the 3 line, why?  Does the coaching staff scout, and if they do, do they make a comprehensive plan? If so, maybe it’s just me not seeing any plan or direction for the players. We guard non-shooters, collapse to triple team in the post, don’t box out, don’t get many 50/50 balls, and aside from Reneau Gallo and maybe Cupps we do not get on the ground. The offense is equally disappointing as IU seemingly has the laziest offensive game plan of my fandom life: first play of half we run to get PG or SF a clean look and then after that IU simply dumps to post and stands around perimeter w/ limited cutters. Walker and Gallo cut decently, but when teams have 3-4 defenders touching the paint it ruins the effectiveness of any cutter. I’m just touching on effort intangibles, not mentioning lack of shooting prowess, FT ineffectiveness, speed disparity, and lack of a true playmaker. 

I’m not a coach, nor do I pretend to be, hell I scored 8 points in my entire basketball career - but I’ve watched every single IU game sans maybe(!) 10 games since 2010 + thousands of other CBB games and the things mentioned above our all easily apparent, even to guys like me.

Isn’t IU supposed to have players that have unrelenting effort and basketball IQ, that’s the MO historically that is associated with IU. Isn’t IU supposed to have one of the best X&O coaching staffs? I’m all for 5* 1&Done but if we can’t get some player development out of our 6 year PG and Sr SG what kind of program is being ran in Btown? We have two Sophomore players w/ ++ athletic ability but their basketball skills/IQ make them both unplayable. Some of that is on the player, sure, but more so it screams that there is lack of development by the staff. Woody said he understands IUBB and I’m sure he does, he’s seemingly a great guy and I want him to win but the product that’s been displayed for the most part in the last 2.5 years screams that it is lazy coaching/preparation. It’s like they (players and coaches) have the cool guy mentality - as a HS FB coach the cool guy mentality is something I wanted to break in players asap - it is the antithesis of winning. If you stuck around to read this you’re a trooper. Thanks for letting me vent 

Great post! You made a ton of great points. Someone said it the other day... we look like an AAU team out there sometimes. 

• No boxing out when a shot goes up (as fundamental as it gets!)
• Not taking advantage of 2 for 1 opportunities/generally not smart basketball (turnovers, bad fouls.. sometimes bad body language)
• Bad communication on defense 
• Play style that basically is dependent on having better/more dominant player(s)

Like you said, sometimes it looks like they don't study a scouting report at all. Or if they do, most (not all) are only interested in the part that tells them about how the staff thinks they can score. We're gonna get double/triple teamed in the post all year... adjust already. We just had a relatively a long break and weren't prepared for that? That does not bode well for the rest of the year. Personnel limits us.*

Of course, this team also beat Michigan on the road. The above is my hyper critical POV as of today. It's a long season. In all likelihood we will win a few games we shouldn't. But right now it looks like that win was more of an outlier in terms of our play than we can expect to see the rest of the way. I'm hoping to see the better version at Jersey Mike's Arena... it will be loud. It's a long year, who knows!

Some individual aspects of individual play have improved... as a team, improvement has been anywhere from marginal to decent at best IMO depending on how you view things. And this team started from a really bad position. Just been ugly most of the year. 

*When I say personnel limits us, I'm specifically talking about the backcourt. But that sparked a thought - many people feel Mack should be playing 4 instead of a 3. Mack may have wanted to be a 3 as a condition of his recruitment. It's been widely publicized that Mgbako's mother directly reached out to Woody (essentially a top 10-15 ranked player falling in your lap). How much of that recruitment can we attribute as an earned win for the staff? How much worse off would we be if we didn't add him, our best shooting threat? What was the plan if we didn't add him? Yes Woody has landed a bunch of five star recruits... their ranking hasn't mattered on the court yet. 

Mods feel free to move to the rant thread. 

[Hornsby]

People hate Crean pretty unanimously and I loved ribbing him so much on Twitter the dude blocked me. I wasn’t mean or rude, just clowned him too much. Little did he know I was one of his biggest supporters - Yogi, Hulls, Sheehey, Zeller, Watford, JBJ, R Johnson, OG, Morgan, Ziesloft, Williams, Bielfedt, Hartmann, Bryant, Williams man Crean made it fun to watch IU. They could beat anyone at any given time (or lose to anyone) but the talent was top tier, the effort was top tier, his players had pride in Indiana and it was visible. I loved it. And there was player development!!  Crean was a Def. Coordinator away from becoming a powerhouse. Again if IU is serious, they ask Woodson to step down and they have a short list (Beard, May, Stevens, + more) with the biggest checkbook they can muster and say “we want a championship and it doesn’t matter how much we pay to get it” .. In the NIL era, if Cigs has taught us anything we can compete in year 1, look at Beard at Ole Miss. Sucks the realization is here again for a new coach but it is what it is. I’m so damn tired of Purdue, UK, and Sampson being good while IU is run of the mill. 

I wanted crean gone but I fully expected us to hire up not down. Imo the last two hires are worse than crean. Crean at least had momentum in year three and four and was lining up some pretty good recruits. Had OG not gotten hurt my guess is crean would never have been fired at least not that year. Archie was such horrible pick and it was like starting all over again with his ridiculous defense that takes a decade to learn. I never saw Woodson as much of a step up from archie honestly.

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