*RANT HERE*

[Hoosier987 1,474]

7 minutes ago, recker222000 said:

Given he whiffed last year on guards I am not sure why this spring will be and different. Many say results dont matter and players will come anywat  but I beg to differ. I am sure guards look at his style of play and say no thanks. What is going to be his selling point this spring to guards other than we have playing time? I mean sure they can give him another year but that is not going to change what will need to happen. Its a matter of when not if at this point. 

Woodson didn't make going after guards a priority last year nor did portal guards want to come in and split time with X and Galloway. He decided to go after length in spite of shooting (and we still can't rebound). Woodson should've told X they were moving in a different direction...instead he put all his eggs in the X basket. 

Woodson knows he has to hit home runs in the portal regarding guard play. That will be his primary focus. It has to be.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,959]

Point differential in losses over the years...

Creans 1st 3 year were obviously the worst. Lost by double digits 42 times. 13 times we lost by 10-14, 13 times by 15-19, 13 by 20-29 and 3 times by 30+.

Creans last 6 years...

10-14: 16 times

15-19: 9 times

20-29: 3 times

30+: 1 time

 

Archies 4 years...

10-14: 9

15-19: 7

20-29: 9

30+: 0

Woody so far...

10-14: 3

15-19: 8

20-29: 6

30+: 0

[coonhounds 9,844]

After thinking since the game it really is this simple. Woodson had zero business coaching iu basketball. This is purely from a coaching standpoint. He just wasn't qualified. If crean was head coach last season we would have been calling for his head especially at the end of the season. We were ok with a second round exit because of how bad the bar was lowered before Woodson. We hired a guy with zero college experience! Only way to justify that would be if he was winning rings in the NBA! That also didn't happen. Imo since Woodson got here the roster has had potential but the coaching has not been good enough. This may trigger some but I think coaching could be worse than Archie. Archie couldn't have brought in the guys Woodson did last year so we will never know. I am sorry but we absolutely have to move on after this season.

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[Hoosier DaDa 3,334]

14 hours ago, IU_FanClub said:

https://x.com/itsantwright/status/1747436016447762835?s=46
 

this is what IU basketball has been for years now under multiple coaches 

I watched Edey flying across the floor or one would say traveling.  The refs never calls anything on that giant especially 3 seconds.

[coonhounds 9,844]

Question! How much in hind sight did finding a way to keep x for this season hurt us? Did the staff not go hard enough after a guard because we had him? Was NIL lower for a guard because we had him? Did good guards not look at us because we had him? The staff only knows what went on and what the thought process was. I like x and feel his injuries have messed him up. That being sad even the very best x we have seen wasn't going to lead us to a final four imo. Wondering why they did that

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[8bucks 6,831]

12 hours ago, Bankshot said:

I agree with where you’re coming from. And I think the answer is “it can be very hard to be good at basketball when your approach is wrong”.

You can drive a nail with a crescent wrench, but not nearly as well as you can with a hammer.

In my opinion, as a program, Indiana abandoned the philosophies and approaches that made us great in basketball. And until we return to those, it may not change.

Coach Knight had a sound, winning philosophy and approach to the game, and inserted capable players into that system, and it was very effective and successful (plus he was a genius, or near genius).

I think we strayed from that, and really have never fully gotten back to it since.

I am not sure RMKs approach would translate to today to the extent that it did when he was here.  However, we have strayed from the idea of having a coach that is somewhat controversial.  RMK was controversial and then we hooked up with Sampson and when he quickly went rogue, we quicky regretted it. It seems now we have decided to stay firmly in the squeaky-clean camp.  That i think is what has kept us free of NCAA sanctions but also NCAA success.

Beard, Pearl, Drew are a few guys that have the background to show they would have consistent success here.  Izzo and Self have their share of controversy.  Roy Williams and even Coach K had some question their recruiting purity. 

As long as we are insistent on staying in the squeaky clean camp we are hoping to get lucky with an up and comer.  If this season turn sour I would prefer to move on to Beard, Pearl or Drew as my first options.  

[IUCrazy2 2,589]

30 minutes ago, Rico said:

I really don't know what Woodson wants to do.  The question is what does the school want to do?  But speaking for myself I have seen enough of the Woody regime.

I think I am there with you.  I just don't think anyone is going to have the appetite to pull the trigger.  Woody will want a chance to not go out on a sour note and his backers in the administration will want to allow for that.

We have to hope we pull some guards out of the portal (again) and I would like to see some staff changes.

[IU_FanClub 1,744]

If this season goes the way it is looking, and at the end we look up and have one commit for next year. Why would a 65 year old with millions in the bank even want to deal with a rebuild? Realistically if he is around next year and we suck again, which given what we currently have coming in is pretty likely, he would probably be fired so why not just hang it up and move on before things get worse?

[8bucks 6,831]

2 hours ago, BleedCubbieBlue said:

Let's not forget that we also brought Thad Matta in to help Woody adjust to the college game and also brought in Fife as the heir apparent.

Well, Thad may have been brought in for more than just to help Woody.  I think it was Goodman who said That would have had the job had he not failed a physical.  No hard facts on that one but I know someone very close to Woody (sits behind the bench for all home games and some road games).  It seemed like things were moving for Woody after Brad then this Thad thing pops up so I texted my friend to ask if he knew anything.  It was clear from his response that Woody was not happy about "this" and it seemed that the "this" was that Thad was being considered for the HC position.  Not sure if this helps, hurts anything but if they went after Brad, then Thad it seemed he was swinging for guys we would have liked first.

[TheWatShot 14,702]

1 minute ago, IU_FanClub said:

If this season goes the way it is looking, and at the end we look up and have one commit for next year. Why would a 65 year old with millions in the bank even want to deal with a rebuild? Realistically if he is around next year and we suck again, which given what we currently have coming in is pretty likely, he would probably be fired so why not just hang it up and move on before things get worse?

I don't know Woodson personally, so it's probably not fair to label him like this, but his generation had it drilled into their heads at a young age that quitting is a sign of weakness. There's a reason you see coaches hanging around into their 70's and other Boomers continuing to work well beyond that age. Their job is their passion and they'll keep doing it until they either literally can't (they die, or become incapacitated), or someone removes them from their position (fired, laid off, etc.). 

 

They're just wired differently. I can't imagine being 65 and having to deal with this team, this fanbase and the media on a daily basis...but he does. And he'll likely continue to do it because he believes it's his duty to perform his job until fate no longer allows him to. 

[Home Jersey 11,183]

1 hour ago, coonhounds said:

Question! How much in hind sight did finding a way to keep x for this season hurt us? Did the staff not go hard enough after a guard because we had him? Was NIL lower for a guard because we had him? Did good guards not look at us because we had him? The staff only knows what went on and what the thought process was. I like x and feel his injuries have messed him up. That being sad even the very best x we have seen wasn't going to lead us to a final four imo. Wondering why they did that

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Yeah, the biggest concern/issue I have with the staff at this point is relying on XJ (coming off injury), Trey, Gunn, Cupps, Newton (coming off injury), Leal. There was no world in which that backcourt would get you past the S16 in the absolute best case scenario. Now we see that it likely won't even take us to the tournament at all. Many people here suspected that from the start, I was a bit more optimistic than others. Yes they tried and failed to bring in another guard, so it wasn't for lack of effort. But given all their access/intel/insight, it certainly looks like the better move would have been to mutually part ways with X (not convince him to take a 6th year and scare off starting quality guards). I won't beat up on X, others are already happy to do that, but this team just lacks true leadership and it's brutal to watch. How could the staff be SO wrong in their assessments? 

The fact they made such an egregious miscalculation, over such a prolonged period where they could have done something to address it, is what makes me feel like something needs to be figured out this offseason, not next. If it's not, recruiting will be super hard and we will be a dumpster fire when the next search is here. Unless this season miraculously turns around (nobody is holding their breath for that), then we're likely going into next year in really bad shape unless a change is made and someone can build momentum. 

If the season ends poorly and Woody insists on a 4th year, a lot of the love and "good will" from fans will be fully eroded. Subjecting the fan base to more of this basketball will not be good for anyone, Woody included. Taking the payout and leaving while you can still claim "Mission Accomplished" in terms of bridging the gap between the Knight era, recruiting at a high-level, and producing one of our GOAT big men is not a bad legacy for Woody to leave at all. If he makes the call himself and decides to enjoy his family, golfing, etc. then pop over to help the new guy every once in a blue moon... he would rightfully be beloved in Bloomington, I'm sure. 

As a fan trying to find reason for optimism... our obvious best case scenario would be Woody turning this season around, returning key guys and landing a great portal class then having a great year next year. Absent that happening, the best we can likely hope for is a mutual agreement that Woody retires and gets a cushy role in the admin. If neither of those things happen... it's going to be a very long next two years for IU basketball. 

[recker222000 1,010]

23 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Yeah, the biggest concern/issue I have with the staff at this point is relying on XJ (coming off injury), Trey, Gunn, Cupps, Newton (coming off injury), Leal. There was no world in which that backcourt would get you past the S16 in the absolute best case scenario. Now we see that it likely won't even take us to the tournament at all. Many people here suspected that from the start, I was a bit more optimistic than others. Yes they tried and failed to bring in another guard, so it wasn't for lack of effort. But given all their access/intel/insight, it certainly looks like the better move would have been to mutually part ways with X (not convince him to take a 6th year and scare off starting quality guards). I won't beat up on X, others are already happy to do that, but this team just lacks true leadership and it's brutal to watch. How could the staff be SO wrong in their assessments? 

The fact they made such an egregious miscalculation, over such a prolonged period where they could have done something to address it, is what makes me feel like something needs to be figured out this offseason, not next. If it's not, recruiting will be super hard and we will be a dumpster fire when the next search is here. Unless this season miraculously turns around (nobody is holding their breath for that), then we're likely going into next year in really bad shape unless a change is made and someone can build momentum. 

If the season ends poorly and Woody insists on a 4th year, a lot of the love and "good will" from fans will be fully eroded. Subjecting the fan base to more of this basketball will not be good for anyone, Woody included. Taking the payout and leaving while you can still claim "Mission Accomplished" in terms of bridging the gap between the Knight era, recruiting at a high-level, and producing one of our GOAT big men is not a bad legacy for Woody to leave at all. If he makes the call himself and decides to enjoy his family, golfing, etc. then pop over to help the new guy every once in a blue moon... he would rightfully be beloved in Bloomington, I'm sure. 

As a fan trying to find reason for optimism... our obvious best case scenario would be Woody turning this season around, returning key guys and landing a great portal class then having a great year next year. Absent that happening, the best we can likely hope for is a mutual agreement that Woody retires and gets a cushy role in the admin. If neither of those things happen... it's going to be a very long next two years for IU basketball. 

Woodson would be smart to leave after this season but these coaches are very arrogant and very stubborn. I could see him coming back  next year and it  being a dumpster fire. At that point he will no longer be loved like he wants to be.  Like I said before they will not fire him because he is one of the old guard but things would get very ugly and very toxic which at some point Woodson would have to notice.  Woodson will never be fired by his buddy Dolson but he will need to make a decison on his own about how long he really wants to stay. 

[Kentuckysucks 2,912]

1 hour ago, IU_FanClub said:

If this season goes the way it is looking, and at the end we look up and have one commit for next year. Why would a 65 year old with millions in the bank even want to deal with a rebuild? Realistically if he is around next year and we suck again, which given what we currently have coming in is pretty likely, he would probably be fired so why not just hang it up and move on before things get worse?

A big ego that's why.  He'll go out kicking and screaming...in a few years.

[Chris007 51,066]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

I don't know Woodson personally, so it's probably not fair to label him like this, but his generation had it drilled into their heads at a young age that quitting is a sign of weakness. There's a reason you see coaches hanging around into their 70's and other Boomers continuing to work well beyond that age. Their job is their passion and they'll keep doing it until they either literally can't (they die, or become incapacitated), or someone removes them from their position (fired, laid off, etc.). 

 

They're just wired differently. I can't imagine being 65 and having to deal with this team, this fanbase and the media on a daily basis...but he does. And he'll likely continue to do it because he believes it's his duty to perform his job until fate no longer allows him to. 

I agree with this and also kind of disagree. Agree that his generation doesn't like to retire and work until their 70's. But it usually seems like it is because they don't have any hobbies. He has plenty of hobbies outside of basketball. 

I have spoken to him several times, I like that he knows this is his last coaching job and he can't do it for a long time. I don't like that he doesn't have the energy it takes to do it the right way. 

[8bucks 6,831]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

I don't know Woodson personally, so it's probably not fair to label him like this, but his generation had it drilled into their heads at a young age that quitting is a sign of weakness. There's a reason you see coaches hanging around into their 70's and other Boomers continuing to work well beyond that age. Their job is their passion and they'll keep doing it until they either literally can't (they die, or become incapacitated), or someone removes them from their position (fired, laid off, etc.). 

 

They're just wired differently. I can't imagine being 65 and having to deal with this team, this fanbase and the media on a daily basis...but he does. And he'll likely continue to do it because he believes it's his duty to perform his job until fate no longer allows him to. 

If he considers the prior hires he may consider himself better than the likely replacements.  Crean may have had 2 sweet 16s but he also had some really down years.  Archie was meh, Sampson was not the right culture guy so he may look at those 3 and say, well if they likely hire from that same tree it is better if I stay around.

[IndyResident16 567]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

I agree with this and also kind of disagree. Agree that his generation doesn't like to retire and work until their 70's. But it usually seems like it is because they don't have any hobbies. He has plenty of hobbies outside of basketball. 

I have spoken to him several times, I like that he knows this is his last coaching job and he can't do it for a long time. I don't like that he doesn't have the energy it takes to do it the right way. 

Which is why I don't get him rolling with the staff he has the last two seasons. His job (and life) would be much more enjoyable if he had a couple of assistants running things other than some of the inept guys who currently employs on the bench. Coach K, Paterno, etc may have coached well into their 70's but many of those guys were really out of the loop and more just figure heads. I get Woodson hasn't been around long enough to enjoy that reputation but I think we'd be in a much better shape with an actual X and O guy on the bench. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,507]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

I agree with this and also kind of disagree. Agree that his generation doesn't like to retire and work until their 70's. But it usually seems like it is because they don't have any hobbies. He has plenty of hobbies outside of basketball. 

I have spoken to him several times, I like that he knows this is his last coaching job and he can't do it for a long time. I don't like that he doesn't have the energy it takes to do it the right way. 

We need a hungry guy trying to prove something. Sometimes that payday is nice enough to let someone rest on their laurels.  
Dusty May is only 46 or 47 and that is nice and I’d imagine he’d be hungry and the Alma mater perspective would have him motivated.  I’d be concerned about recruitng connections and the level of play jump for him.  The media seems to love him and that would be nice to be back in the good graces of the media which I shouldn’t care about   But it’s annoying to feel like everyone is rooting against you all the time.

 

[Chris007 51,066]

3 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Which is why I don't get him rolling with the staff he has the last two seasons. His job (and life) would be much more enjoyable if he had a couple of assistants running things other than some of the inept guys who currently employs on the bench. Coach K, Paterno, etc may have coached well into their 70's but many of those guys were really out of the loop and more just figure heads. I get Woodson hasn't been around long enough to enjoy that reputation but I think we'd be in a much better shape with an actual X and O guy on the bench. 

The staff is there basically to just recruit. Yes one of them comes up with the game plan for each game but Woody listens to Wittman, Jim Todd, and Armon Hill about X & O's more than his assistants. We have more staff than almost any other program in CBB

[Chris007 51,066]

4 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

We need a hungry guy trying to prove something. Sometimes that payday is nice enough to let someone rest on their laurels.  
Dusty May is only 46 or 47 and that is nice and I’d imagine he’d be hungry and the Alma mater perspective would have him motivated.  I’d be concerned about recruitng connections and the level of play jump for him.  The media seems to love him and that would be nice to be back in the good graces of the media which I shouldn’t care about   But it’s annoying to feel like everyone is rooting against you all the time.

 

You are correct is 47. We are almost the same age, I'm about to turn 48. I hope he can make another good run this year. That would help his case to be the next coach. 

[IndyResident16 567]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

The staff is there basically to just recruit. Yes one of them comes up with the game plan for each game but Woody listens to Wittman, Jim Todd, and Armon Hill about X & O's more than his assistants. We have more staff than almost any other program in CBB

Right and what I mean. His job would be so much easier if he actually hired an assistant that knew what he was doing.