IUBB @ Michigan State - 02/12/22 @ 3:30 on Fox-TV

[Alford Bailey]

13 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

This team will remain the same until it can get players that can hit the 3-ball. Period! Convince me otherwise.

Been the same since 2016

[HoosierAloha]

9 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Look guys. From an old timer. IUs roots are role players. Guys like Eyl, Nover, Sloan, even Garret to some extent. I’ll never forget sykle was supposed to own Garrett. Fk that chit. Alford was the man but Smart hit the shot. Etc Etc. Guys like Derek Elston and Hulls. Guys that bleed crimson. Doyle knows. Woody knows. We’ll get there


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Who is the heart of this team? Who is the leader on this team? Who is the player on this team that refuses to lose? Where is the chemistry?

Those teams had those things. This team lacks all of that.

[HoosierAloha]

14 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

Gotcha. I’ve done my best to remain positive, and am still slightly optimistic we make the tournament, because dammit the fan base needs it, but it’s going to be a battle. I will definitely feel for guys like Trayce and Race if never make the big dance here. 

Agree regarding his shot. Still baffles me that he doesn’t make more, with how nice it looks. 

Hopefully, we stay on the right side of the bubble as we go through the more difficult part of our schedule. We have a lot of players on our roster that only know losing at this time of the year. I do believe we get a few more at home and then cross our fingers that we show up in the Barn and Minny doesn't light us up from outside.

Definitely not a shot doctor, getting winded reps in during the off-season might help. This team needs to find it from the line before they worry about the arc. Shooting in general seems to have escaped Btown.

[Hoosierfan2017]

31 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Look guys. From an old timer. IUs roots are role players. Guys like Eyl, Nover, Sloan, even Garret to some extent. I’ll never forget sykle was supposed to own Garrett. Fk that chit. Alford was the man but Smart hit the shot. Etc Etc. Guys like Derek Elston and Hulls. Guys that bleed crimson. Doyle knows. Woody knows. We’ll get there


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Every good team needs quality role players. But you’re not getting anywhere with just role players. Will Sheehey was a great role player on the two sweet 16 teams. Then in 2014 we saw what he was when he wasn’t surrounded with talent. Oladipo and Zeller were the engines that drove those teams. The 2016 team had great role players like Zeisloft and Biedfelt (I probably butchered those names), but Yogi/Bryant/Troy drove that team. Right now we have some guys who could be quality role players but we don’t have the horses. 

[go iu bb]

2 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Where did you hike?  That definitely doesn’t look like Indiana.  It looks out in the Southwest area. My wife and I have hike a lot in that area.  I hope you had fun!

That's a small mountain in north Phoenix (I'm pretty sure it's actually Glendale there)  that's only a few miles from my house. Moved to AZ from IN ~13.5 years ago.

It was a good time. My son had fun for most of it. We saw a few lizards which he was excited about.

I was following the game when we took breaks. It looks like IU was able to keep it close for a half then fell apart in the second. Again.

[HoosierAloha]

16 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Been the same since 2016

P Stew and Kopp were supposed to be the shooters coming in. Geronimo, Gallo, and Race were supposed to be much improved and Phin was supposed to find his confidence.

P Stew has shot for a good average but not nearly enough in volume, maybe more sets needed for him. Kopp has used the opportunity Woody gave him to expand his game to absolutely fall off a cliff shooting in the Big 1.o. Geronimo's % from deep has dropped from last season. Gallo has shot for a better % (he really didn't have anywhere to go but up) but less volume. Race is about the same % but more volume.

I guess it's Archie's fault for the shooting % and offense this season?

[IUFAN1976]

17 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

P Stew and Kopp were supposed to be the shooters coming in. Geronimo, Gallo, and Race were supposed to be much improved and Phin was supposed to find his confidence.

P Stew has shot for a good average but not nearly enough in volume, maybe more sets needed for him. Kopp has used the opportunity Woody gave him to expand his game to absolutely fall off a cliff shooting in the Big 1.o. Geronimo's % from deep has dropped from last season. Gallo has shot for a better % (he really didn't have anywhere to go but up) but less volume. Race is about the same % but more volume.

I guess it's Archie's fault for the shooting % and offense this season?

Well considering he recruited most of them and the majority of the roster played him, he is partly to blame, the rest should fall on CMW and staff for not figuring out this offensive deficiencies.

[Hovadipo]

This team misses Rob Phinisee in a bad way. He isn’t perfect, but the traits he does bring are sorely missed. Mostly being someone who can reliably run the team when X isn’t on the floor. The Galloway point guard dream is dead. 

[HoosierHoopster]

9 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

P Stew and Kopp were supposed to be the shooters coming in. Geronimo, Gallo, and Race were supposed to be much improved and Phin was supposed to find his confidence.

P Stew has shot for a good average but not nearly enough in volume, maybe more sets needed for him. Kopp has used the opportunity Woody gave him to expand his game to absolutely fall off a cliff shooting in the Big 1.o. Geronimo's % from deep has dropped from last season. Gallo has shot for a better % (he really didn't have anywhere to go but up) but less volume. Race is about the same % but more volume.

I guess it's Archie's fault for the shooting % and offense this season?

Galloway and Geronimo are much improved. I haven’t read through the thread — if all you’re talking about is shooting, that ignores how much both have improved across the board. Geronimo’s deep percentage? He barely shot last year. He has a pretty decent outside shot, but that’s not his strength— rebounding, shot blocking and D, he’s a monster in the making. Galloway? He has shot better, but his shot is definitely not his strength. Ok, he’s been great in multiple other areas on both sides of the ball.  I posted a whole thread on their advanced stats it a while back.

We agree on Kopp, Stew to a lesser extent (coming into this game he was shooting 45 % from deep, i mean, that’s elite), but their lack of outside shooting production is, imo, at least partly on the staff, for failing to stucture our O for outside shooting, and on TJD for not kicking the ball out much. However, it’s also true that they’re one dimensional and teams are playing them to take away their shooting, neither puts it on the floor well, that’s a problem.

Bates showed more promise today, do think he’ll be really good next season 

[IUFAN1976]

21 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

That's a small mountain in north Phoenix (I'm pretty sure it's actually Glendale there)  that's only a few miles from my house. Moved to AZ from IN ~13.5 years ago.

It was a good time. My son had fun for most of it. We saw a few lizards which he was excited about.

I was following the game when we took breaks. It looks like IU was able to keep it close for a half then fell apart in the second. Again.

Yes, actually for about 3/4ths of the game.

My wife and have hike a lot in Arizona, Southern Nevada and Southeastern California areas.  We love hiking in those areas, like Sedona, Joshua Trees NP, Death Valley NP, Havasu Falls And Grand Canyon NP.

[HoosierAloha]

1 minute ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Well considering he recruited most of them and the majority of the roster played him, he is partly to blame, the rest should fall on CMW and staff for not figuring out this offensive deficiencies.

Played for him

• Trey Galloway
• Jordan Geronimo
• Trayc Jackson-Davis
• Khristian Lander
• Anthony Leal
• Rob Phinisee
• Race Thompson

Didn't play for him

• Tamar Bates
• Logan Duncomb
• Michael Durr
• Xavier Johnson
• Miller Kopp
• Parker Stewart

The majority of the roster played for him 7/13. Woody re-recruited most (all?) of them and they all play for him. Also, we all dogged on Arch and Co. for his turrrlbe offense. He never had an adjusted offense (KenPom) as bad as the one we currently have.

[HoosierHoopster]

On this game, I expected a loss. “Predicted” a W with my heart, but MSU wasn’t going to lose this one at home.

Big game for me is next - at home v Wisconsin. I WANT this game. Beat Wisconsin and we’re immediately back on track. It’s at home, we should’ve won in their house, and I really, really can’t stand Wisconsin.

[HoosierAloha]

1 hour ago, MoyeNeeded said:

This team will remain the same until it can get players that can hit the 3-ball. Period! Convince me otherwise.

 

51 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Been the same since 2016

 

5 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Galloway and Geronimo are much improved. I haven’t read through the thread — if all you’re talking about is shooting, that ignores how much both have improved across the board. Geronimo’s deep percentage? He barely shot last year. He has a pretty decent outside shot, but that’s not his strength— rebounding, shot blocking and D, he’s a monster in the making. Galloway? He has shot better, but his shot is definitely not his strength. Ok, he’s been great in multiple other areas on both sides of the ball.  I posted a whole thread on their advanced stats it a while back.

We agree on Kopp, Stew to a lesser extent (coming into this game he was shooting 45 % from deep, i mean, that’s elite), but their lack of outside shooting production is, imo, at least partly on the staff, for failing to stucture our O for outside shooting, and on TJD for not kicking the ball out much. However, it’s also true that they’re one dimensional and teams are playing them to take away their shooting, neither puts it on the floor well, that’s a problem.

Bates showed more promise today, do think he’ll be really good next season 

It was strictly on outside shooting. The team remaining the same until players can hit the 3-ball. It's the same, everyone that has seen this team play for years realizes it. We talk about how it's being addressed and how it will be better. We're shocked the following season when it's the same. Rinse and repeat.

[HoosierHoopster]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

 

It was strictly on outside shooting. The team remaining the same until players can hit the 3-ball. It's the same, everyone that has seen this team play for years realizes it. We talk about how it's being addressed and how it will be better. We're shocked the following season when it's the same. Rinse and repeat.

Ok got it. My concern is more with the staff / Woodson having the team shooting even less or about the same number of outside shots from deep despite getting Kopp and structuring the team for shooting, until today, starting the same 2 guys that mostly bring only shooting. We do have shooting, but we don’t use it. That’s mind boggling to me. Have to think though that, assuming TJD moves on next year, we’ll see that change

[HoosierAloha]

3 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

On this game, I expected a loss. “Predicted” a W with my heart, but MSU wasn’t going to lose this one at home.

Big game for me is next - at home v Wisconsin. I WANT this game. Beat Wisconsin and we’re immediately back on track. It’s at home, we should’ve won in their house, and I really, really can’t stand Wisconsin.

This game was there to win. They haven't been playing all that great. Yes, they were at home and the Big 1.o is gonna give them home court advantage. We put them on the line, a lot, and they hit their free ones. We went to the line and did what we do, miss. We tried really hard but without direction and focus. They out-rebounded us, again. We lost our minds, again.

Agreed about Wiscy. Hope Geronimo mushroom stamps the entire state of Wisconsin. Although, if we play similar to how we did today Wiscy will blow us out by 7.

[ziggyiu]

I'm over simplifying it, but while the lack of any consistent shooting from deep is horrendous, the problem goes deeper. It's the guard play overall that hampers IU. There isn't one guard who can create on his own. There isn't one guard who can take it to the goal with any consistent composure. There isn't one guard that can hit free throws at a high level. There isn't one guard anyone can reliably state is a lock down defender. There isn't one guard that has the talent or mental fortitude to carry this team when enduring a bad stretch in a game. Basketball is a guard oriented game, and IU's roster is littered with inept, one-dimensional or complimentary guards. 

[HoosierAloha]

6 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Ok got it. My concern is more with the staff / Woodson having the team shooting even less or about the same number of outside shots from deep despite getting Kopp and structuring the team for shooting, until today, starting the same 2 guys that mostly bring only shooting. We do have shooting, but we don’t use it. That’s mind boggling to me. Have to think though that, assuming TJD moves on next year, we’ll see that change

Ditto, it's mind boggling we decades of coaching experience and this is what the offense produces. It's even more baffling that we toss it into Trayce and then watch. No idea how that's acceptable 3/4 of the way through the season.

[HoosierAloha]

3 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

I'm over simplifying it, but while the lack of any consistent shooting from deep is horrendous, the problem goes deeper. It's the guard play overall that hampers IU. There isn't one guard who can create on his own. There isn't one guard who can take it to the goal with any consistent composure. There isn't one guard that can hit free throws at a high level. There isn't one guard anyone can reliably state is a lock down defender. There isn't one guard that has the talent or mental fortitude to carry this team when enduring a bad stretch in a game. Basketball is a guard oriented game, and IU's roster is littered with inept, one-dimensional or complimentary guards. 

This is the entire team, not just the guards. Race is probably the closest player we have to mentally tough and gives e and e. X provides the e and e but it's not consistently focused.

[Whoozhers]

This game was there to win. They haven't been playing all that great. Yes, they were at home and the Big 1.o is gonna give them home court advantage. We put them on the line, a lot, and they hit their free ones. We went to the line and did what we do, miss. We tried really hard but without direction and focus. They out-rebounded us, again. We lost our minds, again.

Agreed about Wiscy. Hope Geronimo mushroom stamps the entire state of Wisconsin. Although, if we play similar to how we did today Wiscy will blow us out by 7.

“Similar to how we did today” I agree. However, it’s been this same funk the last couple years of Crean, all 4 years of Archie and continues today. It’s a curse of the worst magnitude.

I do believe Coach Woodson is the right man for the job. I was hoping for better his first year but we still got one wheel in the ditch. Leaves a terrible taste in your mouth.

We need a breakthrough and be consistent ASAP!

[cthomas]

7 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

I'm over simplifying it, but while the lack of any consistent shooting from deep is horrendous, the problem goes deeper. It's the guard play overall that hampers IU. There isn't one guard who can create on his own. There isn't one guard who can take it to the goal with any consistent composure. There isn't one guard that can hit free throws at a high level. There isn't one guard anyone can reliably state is a lock down defender. There isn't one guard that has the talent or mental fortitude to carry this team when enduring a bad stretch in a game. Basketball is a guard oriented game, and IU's roster is littered with inept, one-dimensional or complimentary guards. 

Maybe that's why we are recruiting multiple guards. I think the staff recognizes what we need going forward and are trying to address it.