Apathy

[IUFAN1976]

9 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yeah that's pretty crazy and likely has been part of the problem, but two things -- 1) winning culture starts at the top, and Woodson, Fife, Matta, bring big time winning culture in the B1G and NBA, and we can see it growing in the guys right now , and 2) while the starters haven't had a winning culture at the college level they all have real winning culture experience, they all know how to win and have the confidence within, it's just been a while. The confidence part of it is huge, and when you see the moxie the guys showed last night, TJD slapping the floor when Race scored in traffic off TJD's dish, TJD and Galloway's back and forth emotion after Galloway's end to end flush, you see it growing.

Somewhat lost in the post-game discussion is that this was our first FULL game, start to finish, hard-fought W. They fought and executed their way out of the early 9 point or so deficit, they showed composure, energy, hustle, attitude, fight and never looked like they were in real trouble.

I see a growing winning culture

And this post hits it perfectly!  Culture starts at the top and CMW and staff will not allow the lack of effort to sink in an continue!  
 

Let’s see what happens over the next 2 or 3 games!  Minnesota the effort needs to continue but that next road game at Iowa will tell the tale. 3 games in a row starts a trend!

GO HOOSIERS!!!

[Brass Cannon]

10 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

That stinks that’s  just bad luck missing out on the biggest win of the year.   Hopefully in the future you get to watch them win a big game.   That’s just bad luck being able to watch all the bad games and missing out on the good ones.   Bad place to be in for a fan I would think.   Can’t take joy in homes games and needed them to win on the road just to get pumped over the team your invested in.  That would be brutal. 

It would be easier to catch the good games if we had a few more of them   It’s tough to catch the 2 or 3 good ones a year  

And no I don’t get pumped about things that aren’t impressive. 
 

Im honestly impressed at peoples ability to dismiss the people with concerns about our coaching. How many times do the people with concerns have to be right before this certain group grows up and allows people to hold a different opinion without childishly insulting them. 
 

I was insulted for 4 years about my stance on Archie. And for years about Crean. Those same people are insulting me now. Maybe the people who thought that Archie was the next bob knight(not you usps) just sit back stop insulting the people who don’t view this team through crimson colored glasses and can actually see the problems.  
 

You can’t define fandom as only seeing the good aspects.  

[Uspshoosier]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It would be easier to catch the good games if we had a few more of them   It’s tough to catch the 2 or 3 good ones a year  

And no I don’t get pumped about things that aren’t impressive. 
 

Im honestly impressed at peoples ability to dismiss the people with concerns about our coaching. How many times do the people with concerns have to be right before this certain group grows up and allows people to hold a different opinion without childishly insulting them. 
 

I was insulted for 4 years about my stance on Archie. And for years about Crean. Those same people are insulting me now. Maybe the people who thought that Archie was the next bob knight(not you usps) just sit back stop insulting the people who don’t view this team through crimson colored glasses and can actually see the problems.  
 

You can’t define fandom as only seeing the good aspects.  

You can’t define fandom as only seeing the bad aspects as well

 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

You can’t define fandom as only seeing the bad aspects as well

 

I don’t.  But considering for my daughters entire life our issue has been inconsistent effort I am not going to start reassessing my view based off one good game at home which was preceded by an absolutely pathetic performance.  They string together 3 or 4 straight games and I’ll start to reassess.  I am eagerly awaiting 3 or 4 high effort games in a row.    

[Brass Cannon]

9 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I thought having senior citizens in the starting lineup would stop some of the Jekyll and Hyde effort issues of the Archie era. How do you watch the first half of the Syracuse game and not see an effort problem? Yes, some of it was whatever excuse of defense we were playing against ball screens but a LOT was effort. Fighting over and through ball screens was non-existent, getting out to shooters was non-existent. That's.... EFFORT!

IU played a great first half against Wiscy and did what they wanted. When Wiscy started stopping us from what we wanted to do we just caved. We couldn't get it into TJD so we just settled for contested jumpers. That's.... EFFORT!

I have no idea what we were doing against PSU. That just seemed like a game we showed up to and went through the motions. The ball screen defense was **** again, lack of communication and getting out to shooters. Although, I guess those shooters were just lucky in making all of those wide open shots. That's... EFFORT!!

If we were starting a bunch of frosh and sophs who were feeling their way through their first season of college it might be one thing. When you have a starting bunch of juniors, seniors, and super seniors that shouldn't be an issue. They should be setting the tone for the rest of the team. It still amazes me that a single player or two jumps off the screen with their effort. Galloway was that player against O$U. Race and/or X are usually those players in other games. Baffling for a team that, according to our "leader", is fighting to get back to the tournament.

Stop talking it and start showing it.

People don’t see it. They don’t want to see it.  For decades there been no real success or growth with program.  Better to just pretend that what we are watching is ok and part of the process of getting better.  

Next year is going to be brutal if the low effort continues and we lose TJD. 
 

 

[Uspshoosier]

30 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t.  But considering for my daughters entire life our issue has been inconsistent effort I am not going to start reassessing my view based off one good game at home which was preceded by an absolutely pathetic performance.  They string together 3 or 4 straight games and I’ll start to reassess.  I am eagerly awaiting 3 or 4 high effort games in a row.    

Even if you get your 3 or 4 straight games of high effort games doesn’t guarantee anything.  Like it or not that’s where this program is.    Got to figure out how to build a winning culture.   Crean had some runs but in the end failed in this aspect,  Archie never figured it out at IU(while I didn’t think he was the next Bob Knight I thought he would do better then he did, I personally think he is a good coach just didn’t work out at IU). Woodsons turn to try and change bad habits and get this turned around.    Will he do it? I’m not sure but 14 games into his first season shouldn’t be enough data for anyone to make a conclusion good or bad 

You want elite status, I want elite status everyone on here wants elite status.  Unfortunately for us this program is basically starting from the bottom or at least from the middle.   Teams that miss out on 10 out of the last 20 tournaments become an afterthought in the college basketball landscape.   Program is going to have to scratch and claw to get back to where people are not arguing over effort 

[HoosierAloha]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

In my opinion is still comes down to culture.  I saw the stat during the game that IU starting lineup has 158 starts between them.  I would be curious as to the win-loss record of those 158 starts.   Getting grad transfers to fill a roster is just a stop gap in my opinion and bringing in kids from losing cultures to fill a roster for a program that is trying to become a winning culture was always going to be a risky move    Stuff starts rolling down hill with a program with an established culture and you will see them fight and claw for everything because they have experienced and have seen the results.   Stuff starts rolling downhill for kids from losing cultures and right or wrong most of the time they fold because they haven’t experienced the success and they fall into bad habits.    Just got to hope the staff recognizes the problem and through recruiting fixes the effort problem.   In todays game effort is a skill for most these kids.    Only way in my opinion to fix the culture is through recruiting.   If you need a grad transfer look at the program they are coming from instead of the numbers    

 

 

They have to have more starts than 158 combined, right? That would be a little under 32 starts/player. TJD and Race have started the past 2+ years, I would imagine they're around 70 games each. I could be completely off on that.

I completely agree about the culture. A massive part of changing the culture is having a coaching staff in place that sees it and is able to change it. The other is having players that understand and want to change it. When the going is good isn't the time to determine that, it's when you're playing bad and things are going against you. I think we still have a ways to go with this and I question if some of the players have the ability to fight through. I'm cheering them to find that but not really counting on it.

[Hoosierfan2017]

25 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

They have to have more starts than 158 combined, right? That would be a little under 32 starts/player. TJD and Race have started the past 2+ years, I would imagine they're around 70 games each. I could be completely off on that.

I completely agree about the culture. A massive part of changing the culture is having a coaching staff in place that sees it and is able to change it. The other is having players that understand and want to change it. When the going is good isn't the time to determine that, it's when you're playing bad and things are going against you. I think we still have a ways to go with this and I question if some of the players have the ability to fight through. I'm cheering them to find that but not really counting on it.

354 starts between our starting 5. 

[HoosierHoops1]

14 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

 

We have 3 losses this season. We didn’t even really complete or fight for 2/3 of those games. We just were there 
 

 

 

How can we lose on double ot, lose by 5, lose by 3 and "just be there"?

[IUFAN1976]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

How can we lose on double ot, lose by 5, lose by 3 and "just be there"?

We lacked effort at some point in all 3 of those games!  I think our players had a role in the movie Zombieland during those periods.  

[JSHoosier]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

How can we lose on double ot, lose by 5, lose by 3 and "just be there"?

We lost against Syracuse and Wisconsin because we slept walked through entire halves.

[HoosierHoops1]

5 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

We lost against Syracuse and Wisconsin because we slept walked through entire halves.

 

5 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

We lacked effort at some point in all 3 of those games!  I think our players had a role in the movie Zombieland during those periods.  

 

It's basketball. Syracuse and Whisky  did the same thing, alas, they were home and won.

Maybe focus is a better word than effort.

 

Being there would be how UNC, Michigan and a ton of other teams have played.

 

 

[IUFAN1976]

2 minutes ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

 

 

It's basketball. Syracuse and Whisky  did the same thing, alas, they were home and won.

Maybe focus is a better word than effort.

 

Being there would be how UNC, Michigan and a ton of other teams have played.

 

 

Yes, they lost their focus on effort!

[Southside]

8 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

It would be easier to catch the good games if we had a few more of them   It’s tough to catch the 2 or 3 good ones a year  

And no I don’t get pumped about things that aren’t impressive. 
 

Im honestly impressed at peoples ability to dismiss the people with concerns about our coaching. How many times do the people with concerns have to be right before this certain group grows up and allows people to hold a different opinion without childishly insulting them. 
 

I was insulted for 4 years about my stance on Archie. And for years about Crean. Those same people are insulting me now. Maybe the people who thought that Archie was the next bob knight(not you usps) just sit back stop insulting the people who don’t view this team through crimson colored glasses and can actually see the problems.  
 

You can’t define fandom as only seeing the good aspects.  

 

8 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t.  But considering for my daughters entire life our issue has been inconsistent effort I am not going to start reassessing my view based off one good game at home which was preceded by an absolutely pathetic performance.  They string together 3 or 4 straight games and I’ll start to reassess.  I am eagerly awaiting 3 or 4 high effort games in a row.    

In reply to both. You seem to have only one gear. I'm perfectly fine with negativity, but you're posts over the years have been the definition of imbalance. 

And sorry, but in year one of any coach, you simply need to press pause and give a guy/team a chance to overcome years of bad. 

And for someone who devotes so much time to negativity, and to flippantly discount/diminish a good performance that you didn't even watch lol, is just a bit head scratching. Was the win over OSU just another Iowa blip like last year, I don't know. But it's an undeniable moment of positivity for the moment. Will it last, IDK. Is it a building block, IDK. But it is a nice moment. 

And overall, I think you simply need to check your expectations. It's laughable to compare us to KY, who have had 4 straight classes ranked at worst #2 lol... That's just next level intellectual dishonestly. And the bigger thing... you simply can't expect 4+ years of bad to magically disappear and in it's place a B10 champ and NC contender magically appear. IT TAKES TIME.  In short, you're a product of a your own expectations. You'll never be happy. 

[HoosierHoops1]

6 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Yes, they lost their focus on effort!

[HoosierAloha]

Wow, spoke with a relative yesterday who was in town for a late holiday visit. They didn’t catch the O$U game, missed the PSU game, and won’t be watching the Minny game today. They’ve gone to the record the game and decide if they should watch it later tactic.

This person is an IU alum that attended just about every game while on campus. The reason? “I’m not going to waste my time when they play like that.”


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[HoosierHoops1]

5 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Wow, spoke with a relative yesterday who was in town for a late holiday visit. They didn’t catch the O$U game, missed the PSU game, and won’t be watching the Minny game today. They’ve gone to the record the game and decide if they should watch it later tactic.

This person is an IU alum that attended just about every game while on campus. The reason? “I’m not going to waste my time when they play like that.”


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People are weird.

[BGleas]

14 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Wow, spoke with a relative yesterday who was in town for a late holiday visit. They didn’t catch the O$U game, missed the PSU game, and won’t be watching the Minny game today. They’ve gone to the record the game and decide if they should watch it later tactic.

This person is an IU alum that attended just about every game while on campus. The reason? “I’m not going to waste my time when they play like that.”


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I record most games and watch them later as well, not because of apathy but because I have 3 kids between elementary and middle school so our calendar is packed. 

But what I can't imagine doing is recording the game and then only watching it if we win. I avoid the score and then watch it later that day. Can't imagine spending 2 hours to watch a game that I already know the outcome of. 

[HoosierAloha]

I record most games and watch them later as well, not because of apathy but because I have 3 kids between elementary and middle school so our calendar is packed. 
But what I can't imagine doing is recording the game and then only watching it if we win. I avoid the score and then watch it later that day. Can't imagine spending 2 hours to watch a game that I already know the outcome of. 

That’s understandable. They work from home and don’t have kids. Their spouse does shift work and used to watch games together when they could.

They were the type that would cancel all plans or work around the games or make sure they could watch wherever they were. If I had to pick one person I knew would be watching the games they would be my pick. Was quite shocked to hear this yesterday. I guess as you age your priorities change.


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[Josh]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:46 PM, Brass Cannon said:

I wasn’t able to see the Ohio state game sadly. It was my night to put my daughter to bed. 

You have a 2 hour bedtime routine?  And a wife who won't swap nights for you?