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[Honkyman 1,670]

9 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

unable to recruit all roles. Something Crean and Archie both struggled with.

I wouldn't put Crean in that category. Crean's 2011-2012 & 2012-13 team had Zeller at the 5, Watford at the 4, Oladipo at the 3, and Hulls and Farrell (just the 2012-2013 team) in the backcourt with Sheehey and others coming off the bench. The 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams were Crean's first team with players he could recruit trying to build a team rather than just filling a roster and trying to survive as was the case his first three seasons. Crean's 2015-2016 team had Thomas Bryant at the 5, Troy Williams and OG Annunoby in the front court and James Blackmon and Yogi Farrell in the backcourt, with Nick Zeisloft and Robert Johnson coming off the bench.  These were well built teams with both shooters and skilled bigs though undercut at various times by  injuries to key players like James Blackmon and OG Annunoby. Neither Archie Miller nor Mike Woodson have been able to recruit complete teams in the manner Crean did. Say what you will about Tom Crean, he won two Big Ten titles and was national coach of the year one year. Miller never came close to Crean's achievements and it remains to be seen what Woodson can accomplish.

[Rico 2,991]

35 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Ledlum and Knecht both going to UT is not a coincidence. Something more being offered there.

[Brass Cannon 24,301]

13 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

I wouldn't put Crean in that category. Crean's 2011-2012 & 2012-13 team had Zeller at the 5, Watford at the 4, Oladipo at the 3, and Hulls and Farrell (just the 2012-2013 team) in the backcourt with Sheehey and others coming off the bench. The 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams were Crean's first team with players he could recruit trying to build a team rather than just filling a roster and trying to survive as was the case his first three seasons. Crean's 2015-2016 team had Thomas Bryant at the 5, Troy Williams and OG Annunoby in the front court and James Blackmon and Yogi Farrell in the backcourt, with Nick Zeisloft and Robert Johnson coming off the bench.  These were well built teams with both shooters and skilled bigs though undercut at various times by  injuries to key players like James Blackmon and OG Annunoby. Neither Archie Miller nor Mike Woodson have been able to recruit complete teams in the manner Crean did. Say what you will about Tom Crean, he won two Big Ten titles and was national coach of the year one year. Miller never came close to Crean's achievements and it remains to be seen what Woodson can accomplish.

One lucky year on his part. If he had sustained that he would still be the coach

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,945]

Crean had multiple good years. It wasnt a one lucky year type thing. There certainly wasn't a specific position he struggled to recruit. Mercy 

[Honkyman 1,670]

23 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

One lucky year on his part.

Crean won more than one Big Ten title at IU. The point was Crean recruited complete teams (at least twice) leading to conference titles, something his successors have not done. I don't disagree that it was time for a coaching change when it happened.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,945]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Except RJ did play the 3 for us. Not always, but he did. He actually started at the 3 to begin the 15-16 season before JBJ got hurt. After that he played the 3 anytime it was him, Yogi and Zeisloft on the floor.

He didnt.

He was a ball handler. Zeisloft wasn't. Hell Z even guarded the taller players on the other end. If you are actually trying to distinguish a position difference between Z+Rob when they're on the court together (which is dumb) it's pretty clear Rob was the 2 and Z the 3. 

JBJ was the 3 when it was--- RJ, Yogi, and Blackmon.

Johnson literally started at the 2... I mentioned who the 3s were on that team. 

[IUFAN1976 2,839]

1 hour ago, ap2345 said:

IU currently has the #6 transfer class including the #2 overall player in the portal. They have 3 open spots and there will be options to get those filled. I have my issues with this staffs recruiting at times but comparing it to Crean and Archie is an overreaction. 

I 100% agree!!!  It’s the Chicken Little issue, “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”!!!!

 

[Brass Cannon 24,301]

39 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Crean won more than one Big Ten title at IU. The point was Crean recruited complete teams (at least twice) leading to conference titles, something his successors have not done. I don't disagree that it was time for a coaching change when it happened.

Neither of those teams were complete or they wouldn’t have been absolutely embarrassed in the sweet sixteen both times. 

 

19 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I 100% agree!!!  It’s the Chicken Little issue, “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”!!!!

 

Our guardplay which was already our weakness is much weaker going into next year.  And college basketball is dominated by guards 

[Honkyman 1,670]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Neither of those teams were complete or they wouldn’t have been absolutely embarrassed in the sweet sixteen both times. 

It is a mistake to blame that loss to a Final Four team on IU's players. Crean was a good recruiter at IU but a lousy game coach. Besides their best shooter--Hulls--was hurt.

[ap2345 7,595]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Neither of those teams were complete or they wouldn’t have been absolutely embarrassed in the sweet sixteen both times. 

 

Our guardplay which was already our weakness is much weaker going into next year.  And college basketball is dominated by guards 

If IU doesn’t have the guard situation figured out in a month then there should be cause for concern.

[GloryDays 5,915]

21 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

It is a mistake to blame that loss to a Final Four team on IU's players. Crean was a good recruiter at IU but a lousy game coach. Besides their best shooter--Hulls--was hurt.

Agreed, playing a one armed Hulls while a completely healthy and Abell Remy sat the bench against the physicality of Syracuse was a perfect example of his ineptness.

[Silat Player 293]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Crean won more than one Big Ten title at IU. The point was Crean recruited complete teams (at least twice) leading to conference titles, something his successors have not done. I don't disagree that it was time for a coaching change when it happened.

Crean's problem was consistency. He was unable to field consistently competitive teams. 

The fluctuations in the program were massive. Just look at his finishes in the league: 

11, t-9, 11, 5, 1, t-8, t-7, 1, t-10

He was obviously not good at maintaining a program. LOL

[Hoosierfan2017 21,064]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Neither of those teams were complete or they wouldn’t have been absolutely embarrassed in the sweet sixteen both times. 

 

Our guardplay which was already our weakness is much weaker going into next year.  And college basketball is dominated by guards 

Both our backcourt and our frontcourt are worse right now than they were last season. I doubt we are after anymore frontcourt players, so we will really need better perimeter players to make up for it..

[Demo 19,695]

 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,198]

Did we recently land a former 5 star recruit from a Nike school who liked it here so much, he cancelled a visit to an SEC school? Or was that just a dream? 
 
There are still 3 more weeks for players to enter the portal and keep their eligibility for next season. I think some of our fans still haven't grasped how long this game really is. 

Exactly. The staff could very well whiff when it is all said and done, but too say they have now, even after losing on Ludlum and Knecht, is premature.
We don't know who they are talking to and who will enter the portal

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,198]

If IU doesn’t have the guard situation figured out in a month then there should be cause for concern.

That is what I have been saying

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[IUFAN1976 2,839]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Neither of those teams were complete or they wouldn’t have been absolutely embarrassed in the sweet sixteen both times. 

 

Our guardplay which was already our weakness is much weaker going into next year.  And college basketball is dominated by guards 

I realize that, but there is still time to land a decent guard or two in the portal.  Also, if we don’t get one through the portal, there could be the JC route.  
 

I know we are much weaker in both the front and backcourts, but I do like the potential of our front court and if XJ can be approved to play next season, we have potential to be decent.  
 

The sky hasn’t fallen yet!  Please everyone, a little more patience, let’s see what happens in the next several weeks!

[Golfman25 5,105]

3 hours ago, Rico said:

That’s Louisville, I mean St Johns.  

[RaceToTheTop 25,186]

11 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

That’s Louisville, I mean St Johns.  

At Louisville, those girls called the players their John's.  But they definitely weren't saints.

[Scotty R 2,127]

3 hours ago, Honkyman said:

Crean won more than one Big Ten title at IU. The point was Crean recruited complete teams (at least twice) leading to conference titles, something his successors have not done. I don't disagree that it was time for a coaching change when it happened.

My god Woodson has been here two years. What did you expect the team to look like this year.