Game thread: 2/13 IU @ #4 OSU, Noon ESPN

[Josh 12,569]

4 hours ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

That is sad. I'll continue to follow my dad's advice "support and watch your team win or lose".

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It is sad, isn't it?  My grandmother told me not to engage in anything that doesn't bring you joy.  Archie Miller basketball does not.

I did give in a little though.  I had the game on the back porch tv while fishing and playing in the backyard. I couldn't hear it, but every once in a while I looked at the score.

It's so sad

[HoosierHoopster 6,854]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

That's what I don't get from people saying 'the wrong guys are playing minutes'.  Exactly who has showed in the minutes that they have been given that they have deserved a significant increase?  Seems like the most popular guys on a team that is inconsistent/hasn't played well are the backups.....and they are usually backups for a reason.

Lander moves the ball pretty well.  Still turns it over with some bad passes, still subpar defensively, can't make a shot.

Geronimo provides some energy.  Still is a turnover any time he's at the free throw line and almost all of his makes have been dunks.

Leal doesn't pull the trigger often and although getting better on defense, still is on of our worst defenders.

Galloway doesn't provide much scoring and he still his back is still bothering him.

Hunter might be getting more minutes going forward, but he sat for two games for non-basketball reasons.

I have felt strongly for some time that Hunter doesn’t get enough run / sets, because CAM doesn’t value the 3 ball enough (we have been towards the bottom  in 3-point attempts) and Hunter has struggled defensively. I generally believe in CAM’s defensive philosophy but the team repeatedly fails to execute extending the pac line to the perimeter resulting in the other guys having strong games from behind the arc while we minimize the arc in our offense. We don’t have truly elite three point shooters but we do have guys who can spread the floor better, but that game has been minimized. Hunter should play more with sets run for his offense (my opinion). Lander should play more to speed up our transition game. We’re starting to see more of that but it’s late in the season 

[wvadennis 13]

I grew up in West Virginia following the Mountaineers and Jerry West. Haven’t posted here but am a transplanted Hoosier (my wife is from Vincennes). Remember watching Army with my dad when Bob Knight was coach. I moved to Indiana in 1978 and have seen excellence. 
This is definitely not it.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,982]

22 minutes ago, Josh said:

It is sad, isn't it?  My grandmother told me not to engage in anything that doesn't bring you joy.  Archie Miller basketball does not.

I did give in a little though.  I had the game on the back porch tv while fishing and playing in the backyard. I couldn't hear it, but every once in a while I looked at the score.

It's so sad

Same.  I watch every game this season on DVR.  I FF through the pain, scoring droughts, and blowouts. So I don't watch too much of the games these days.  I haven't and won't throw in the towel completely but its getting closer.  My brothers and parents have given up watching the games.  Not sure i'll ever get there.  

[cappymo14 2,276]

Ok, I apologize for that post. I usually respond to an attack with an attack. I was wrong to do that. The point I was trying to make before being called a liar was that Rutgers was ranked in the top 15 less than 2 weeks before we played them and are ranked again now. Even after your 5 game losing streak (which included #9 Wisc, OSU, #10 Iowa, and #23 MSU. It’s not completely inconceivable that IU should, could, and would lose to Rutgers. No sir, that team will be in the tournament for a certainty. IU might be watching from the couch. To me it’s just a very bad example of the “IU stumbles to a nobody after beating ranked teams” argument.


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[rcbowla 7,037]

Ok, I apologize for that post. I usually respond to an attack with an attack. I was wrong to do that. The point I was trying to make before being called a liar was that Rutgers was ranked in the top 15 less than 2 weeks before we played them and are ranked again now. Even after your 5 game losing streak (which included #9 Wisc, OSU, #10 Iowa, and #23 MSU. It’s not completely inconceivable that IU should, could, and would lose to Rutgers. No sir, that team will be in the tournament for a certainty. IU might be watching from the couch. To me it’s just a very bad example of the “IU stumbles to a nobody after beating ranked teams” argument.


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Believe the argument had been losing (and in some cases at home) to unranked teams after beating ranked teams. Or at least that's what I gathered anyhow. The bigger issue is just not being able to sustain any momentum within a season and often times within a game. That to me is more of the argument rather than who we lose to after beating a ranked team because at some point you just need to go string together a 3-4 game win streak regardless of who you are playing. For what it's worth I didn't believe losing to Rutgers in and of itself was shameful but given the circumstances it sure as hell was a disappointment and when added up with all of the other disappointments from this era things start getting to people and the leash they are willing to give gets shorter and shorter.

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,182]

Ok, I apologize for that post. I usually respond to an attack with an attack. I was wrong to do that. The point I was trying to make before being called a liar was that Rutgers was ranked in the top 15 less than 2 weeks before we played them and are ranked again now. Even after your 5 game losing streak (which included #9 Wisc, OSU, #10 Iowa, and #23 MSU. It’s not completely inconceivable that IU should, could, and would lose to Rutgers. No sir, that team will be in the tournament for a certainty. IU might be watching from the couch. To me it’s just a very bad example of the “IU stumbles to a nobody after beating ranked teams” argument.


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Mainly because a lot of people look at the history of the program, instead of tge current season. Rutgers may have lost 5 in row, but they were still a very good team that was picked to finish 5th in the conference and lost to at least 3 ranked teams in that streak

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[Hoosierfan2017 20,947]

Losing to Rutgers isn’t bad in and of itself. Losing to them because our players play with lackluster effort is bad, though, and that’s what happened in that game. As it does in most of our losses. 

[cappymo14 2,276]

Believe the argument had been losing (and in some cases at home) to unranked teams after beating ranked teams. Or at least that's what I gathered anyhow. The bigger issue is just not being able to sustain any momentum within a season and often times within a game. That to me is more of the argument rather than who we lose to after beating a ranked team because at some point you just need to go string together a 3-4 game win streak regardless of who you are playing. For what it's worth I didn't believe losing to Rutgers in and of itself was shameful but given the circumstances it sure as hell was a disappointment and when added up with all of the other disappointments from this era things start getting to people and the leash they are willing to give gets shorter and shorter.

 

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I’m pretty sure this was along the lines of what I was getting at when the whole thing began last week. I acknowledge the 3-9 record in that circumstance, as being an area of concern. All I said is that I would personally care about it more if I knew it didn’t happen all the time in this conference. I listed 6 of the several times it’s happened this season to teams other than IU and counted up a three year total in the high 20’s. It’s a tough conference and we are not in the at top tier talent wise. Maybe not even the middle. This roster was going to lose some games no matter who coached it. Add to that the lack of a coherent offense and the occasional blah effort and we have an inconsistent team. All I say is who we lose to, and when, matters less to me as an evaluation tool for coaching than the ability to create a functional offense for the roster we have. The lack of player development. The on again-off again effort defensively. The ineffective recruiting and failure to address immediate deficiencies.

 

 

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[triple 408]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 I FF through the pain, scoring droughts, and blowouts. So I don't watch too much of the games these days. 

Same here.  But for the past few games I've waited to see the final score and only watched recordings of the wins.  I hate to admit that I'm becoming a fair weather fan, but this offense feels like a form of punishment.    

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,182]

Losing to Rutgers isn’t bad in and of itself. Losing to them because our players play with lackluster effort is bad, though, and that’s what happened in that game. As it does in most of our losses. 

This I agree with

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[Brass Cannon 24,271]

1 hour ago, cappymo14 said:

Ok, I apologize for that post. I usually respond to an attack with an attack. I was wrong to do that. The point I was trying to make before being called a liar was that Rutgers was ranked in the top 15 less than 2 weeks before we played them and are ranked again now. Even after your 5 game losing streak (which included #9 Wisc, OSU, #10 Iowa, and #23 MSU. It’s not completely inconceivable that IU should, could, and would lose to Rutgers. No sir, that team will be in the tournament for a certainty. IU might be watching from the couch. To me it’s just a very bad example of the “IU stumbles to a nobody after beating ranked teams” argument.


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You’ve made the same mistake several times I corrected you a few times. When you intentionally post something not true what would you call it?

[cappymo14 2,276]

You’ve made the same mistake several times I corrected you a few times. When you intentionally post something not true what would you call it?

What wasn’t true?

 

Edit: I seriously need to know where you are coming from and why you are doing this. It’s really starting to piss me off now dude. What wasn’t 100% verifiable, unimpeachable fact? You need to come up with a reason man. One more insult wrapped up as a dissenting viewpoint, and I walk. 8 years here man. I’ve never been treated like this.

 

 

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[Honkyman 1,670]

IU not ready to play again.

[RaceToTheTop 25,031]

3 hours ago, Aaron said:

Lickliter is a horrible coach and Butler was so lucky (back to a lot of luck involved as I mentioned earlier) Iowa took him at first sign of success or Bulldogs never get to where they are today. Missed tourney 4 times in 6 seasons and if Iowa does not poach him after his one great season they never get to where they are today with Stevens. Butler owes Iowa a huge thanks to where they are today.

Completely agree that Matta for his one yr was very good. Lickliter, Collier and now Jordan were/are very up and down and Miller was horrid in his one season. Butler's best years were under Holtman and Stevens and one is in NBA and other is tearing it up at OSU.

Lickliter is struggling at Evansville and gone through NAIA route. He is mediocre with a couple good seasons. Miller quit over mental problems and Collier is now AD and Matta was very good at OSU.

Jordan is TBA to be frank but right now he looks much more like the up and down of Collier and Lickliter than the elite of Stevens and Holtman. 

I don't think Lickliter is a good X and O's guy, but it doesn't change that the fact that he was winning when he was at Butler.  It's not like he was driven out.  He was hired by Iowa after winning 29 games at Butler the year before.  

[RaceToTheTop 25,031]

2 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Same.  I watch every game this season on DVR.  I FF through the pain, scoring droughts, and blowouts. So I don't watch too much of the games these days.  I haven't and won't throw in the towel completely but its getting closer.  My brothers and parents have given up watching the games.  Not sure i'll ever get there.  

Yep.  Part of it is getting older and not living and dying with IU basketball.  Had too much **** in my life to just compound it by having my mood spoiled when IU plays poorly.  And I'm also not going to lose my mind and gave off the deep end if Miller is back next year.  If we make the tournament, he will be back IMO.  And if we don't.....he still may given the current financial situation with revenue lost this year and Miller's buyout not being manageable until 2022.  Bottom line, I'll watch when it gives me entertainment and live with the realization that my opinion has zero to do with a coach's job.  I've found myself several times during IU games that I've watched turning the channel at least for a stretch, certainly.

[JSHoosier 19,852]

2 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Yep.  Part of it is getting older and not living and dying with IU basketball.  Had too much **** in my life to just compound it by having my mood spoiled when IU plays poorly.  And I'm also not going to lose my mind and gave off the deep end if Miller is back next year.  If we make the tournament, he will be back IMO.  And if we don't.....he still may given the current financial situation with revenue lost this year and Miller's buyout not being manageable until 2022.  Bottom line, I'll watch when it gives me entertainment and live with the realization that my opinion has zero to do with a coach's job.  I've found myself several times during IU games that I've watched turning the channel at least for a stretch, certainly.

He could've gone winless and would've been back regardless of pandemic.

[cappymo14 2,276]

I’m watching a post game show on YouTube. The host brought up 2 points about Archie’s coaching tendencies that I feel are absolutely baffling trends.

 

1. Jerome Hunter comes in, hits a big 3, has a great post feed for a score, gets a couple rebounds, has a nice post seal for a score. Archie rewards him with the bench. Jerome was having an excellent offensive series and got pulled for it. I saw this, and other examples just like it over the years. It’s maddening.

 

2. Indiana claws back to within 8 before the half. The host says “Ok, 45 seconds left, our possession, we gotta get this cut down to 6”. I was thinking the same. So were all of you I’m sure. Anyway, Archie comes out the timeout with Durham, Leal, Hunter, Thompson and TJD. Durham with the ball in his hands to end the half? Again? Really Arch? Obviously it didn’t work. It never has. He turned it over of course. OSU gets a layup and a 10 point lead going in after Durham jacks up a wild shot with no chance to end it.

 

Those two things are not one game anomalies. He constantly does things that go against a stack of statistical proof a mile high. I don’t think anyone could explain these things to me in a way that would make sense.

 

 

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[RaceToTheTop 25,031]

8 hours ago, cappymo14 said:

I’m watching a post game show on YouTube. The host brought up 2 points about Archie’s coaching tendencies that I feel are absolutely baffling trends.

 

1. Jerome Hunter comes in, hits a big 3, has a great post feed for a score, gets a couple rebounds, has a nice post seal for a score. Archie rewards him with the bench. Jerome was having an excellent offensive series and got pulled for it. I saw this, and other examples just like it over the years. It’s maddening.

 

2. Indiana claws back to within 8 before the half. The host says “Ok, 45 seconds left, our possession, we gotta get this cut down to 6”. I was thinking the same. So were all of you I’m sure. Anyway, Archie comes out the timeout with Durham, Leal, Hunter, Thompson and TJD. Durham with the ball in his hands to end the half? Again? Really Arch? Obviously it didn’t work. It never has. He turned it over of course. OSU gets a layup and a 10 point lead going in after Durham jacks up a wild shot with no chance to end it.

 

Those two things are not one game anomalies. He constantly does things that go against a stack of statistical proof a mile high. I don’t think anyone could explain these things to me in a way that would make sense.

 

 

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Statistical proof says that Durham has the best assist to turnover ratio and the lowest turnover rate.  I agree that Durham isn’t a good point guard but let’s not act like Phin or Lander have been better.  The bar seems to be different to the point where a poster here was telling people that this game was proof of how good Lander was...while no t scoring and having 3 assists and 2 turnovers.

For the record, Durham didn’t have a turnover before that possession or after that possession.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,623]

2 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Statistical proof says that Durham has the best assist to turnover ratio and the lowest turnover rate.  I agree that Durham isn’t a good point guard but let’s not act like Phin or Lander have been better.  The bar seems to be different to the point where a poster here was telling people that this game was proof of how good Lander was...while no t scoring and having 3 assists and 2 turnovers.

For the record, Durham didn’t have a turnover before that possession or after that possession.

Or maybe because Durham consistently makes stupid plays at the end of halves when time is running out.