Our Upperclassmen’s Regression and a Case for Playing our 2020 Kids More

[JSHoosier]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

To me? We never look bad when we win.

A close win against a bad team means that we had an inevitable “not our best” game, and still found a way to get the W. That is what good teams do. For instance, the 1976 Hoosiers had a two point nail biter win against 6-20 Ohio State. Played terribly that day, but found a way to win anyway.

 

I'm in the camp that a team can look bad in a win and good in a loss, granted 'bad' and 'good' involves a lot of eye test and can vary from person to person.  Good shooting teams can have days where the shots don't fall, that's just the game.

There were plenty of times with Crean where we'd win and I thought we didn't look good.  With Miller I like that we have more ball and player movement (generally), that can lead to good looks; I'm completely fed up with shooting being a constant problem though.

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I'm in the camp that a team can look bad in a win and good in a loss, granted 'bad' and 'good' involves a lot of eye test and can vary from person to person.  Good shooting teams can have days where the shots don't fall, that's just the game.

There were plenty of times with Crean where we'd win and I thought we didn't look good.  With Miller I like that we have more ball and player movement (generally), that can lead to good looks; I'm completely fed up with shooting being a constant problem though.

I actually think we get better looks under Archie. Yet they don’t go in. It’s bafflingly really 

[JSHoosier]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

I actually think we get better looks under Archie. Yet they don’t go in. It’s bafflingly really 

We do get some good looks.  Last game Phinisee had a wide open look in the corner but missed.

[HoosierAloha]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

All of this makes sense.  I've always been a proponent of not bringing up problems unless you have a solution.  That's why i do have one.  But it drives some people crazy to hear the solution.  Not talking about the problem doesn't make it go away.  It's important to hold people accountable if you want to achieve success.

I don't think the variance in expectations, on this board, is that great.  I believe in how we conduct ourselves separates the "pumpers" from the "dumpers."  My bitching and complaining on a fan board isn't going to change what Archie does from a strategic or recruiting standpoint.  I'd love to talk strategy but one liners and hot takes usually dominate when the team isn't playing well.  That's just weak and sophomoric.  To your solution, when that happens it'll be a signal if the administration is serious about the program or not.

[Uspshoosier]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I don't think the variance in expectations, on this board, is that great.  I believe in how we conduct ourselves separates the "pumpers" from the "dumpers."  My bitching and complaining on a fan board isn't going to change what Archie does from a strategic or recruiting standpoint.  I'd love to talk strategy but one liners and hot takes usually dominate when the team isn't playing well.  That's just weak and sophomoric.  To your solution, when that happens it'll be a signal if the administration is serious about the program or not.

Speaking of strategy.   I notice IU and Kentucky needs shooters.   I’m watching a 3 star(179) Justin Powell start for auburn and has looked like their best player this year.   He is from Kentucky and played for Indy heat.   

[HoosierAloha]

2 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Speaking of strategy.   I notice IU and Kentucky needs shooters.   I’m watching a 3 star(179) Justin Powell start for auburn and has looked like their best player this year.   He is from Kentucky and played for Indy heat.   

Shooters!  Multiple shooters, including the four spot is the way we needed to go many years ago.  Thompson's shot actually looks pretty good but he could shoot more when open.  If Galloway can make the shooting leap that Armaan took between his freshman and sophomore years we could have above average shooters 2-4 in next season's starting lineup.

[Josh]

11 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I don't think the variance in expectations, on this board, is that great.  I believe in how we conduct ourselves separates the "pumpers" from the "dumpers."  My bitching and complaining on a fan board isn't going to change what Archie does from a strategic or recruiting standpoint.  I'd love to talk strategy but one liners and hot takes usually dominate when the team isn't playing well.  That's just weak and sophomoric.  To your solution, when that happens it'll be a signal if the administration is serious about the program or not.

Agreed again.  I also think very little separates the pumpers and the dumpers.  Both use rhetoric towards the other side and are aghast when it's used against them.

I like the one liners though.  Brevity is king!  Nobody reads the long posts completely.  Get your words out simply 

[HoosierAloha]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

Agreed again.  I also think very little separates the pumpers and the dumpers.  Both use rhetoric towards the other side and are aghast when it's used against them.

I like the one liners though.  Brevity is king!  Nobody reads the long posts completely.  Get your words out simply 

**** the Big Ten?!

[Josh]

Just now, HoosierAloha said:

**** the Big Ten?!

Agreed!

Kumbayah 

[Brass Cannon]

25 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I don't think the variance in expectations, on this board, is that great.  I believe in how we conduct ourselves separates the "pumpers" from the "dumpers."  My bitching and complaining on a fan board isn't going to change what Archie does from a strategic or recruiting standpoint.  I'd love to talk strategy but one liners and hot takes usually dominate when the team isn't playing well.  That's just weak and sophomoric.  To your solution, when that happens it'll be a signal if the administration is serious about the program or not.

People being critical of Archie amongst the greater Indiana fanbase of which we are a small part of will force the athletic department to make changes.  
 

Blind optimism and refusal to see what he is or the covering ones eyes to what Archie is will breed complacency.  IU fandom is already a shell of what it was 20 years ago. This non stop culture of “just be patient” might not dissuade the hard cores but the casual fans check out.  
 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and squeaky fanbase gets a new hopefully competent coach. 

[Hovadipo]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

People being critical of Archie amongst the greater Indiana fanbase of which we are a small part of will force the athletic department to make changes.  

Do you actually believe this?

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Do you actually believe this?

Do I believe that the Indiana fanbase many of whom are on lists to call to get begged for money being dissatisfied has an impact on whether or not we continue paying top dollar for expired meatloaf. Yeah I believe money makes the world go round. 

If you don’t I got some land I would like to sell you 

 

[HoosierAloha]

30 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

People being critical of Archie amongst the greater Indiana fanbase of which we are a small part of will force the athletic department to make changes.  
 

Blind optimism and refusal to see what he is or the covering ones eyes to what Archie is will breed complacency.  IU fandom is already a shell of what it was 20 years ago. This non stop culture of “just be patient” might not dissuade the hard cores but the casual fans check out.  
 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and squeaky fanbase gets a new hopefully competent coach. 

We've been over this.  Again, my bitching and complaining on a fan board won't hurry Archie out of Btown any quicker.  That's just...

[Hovadipo]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Do I believe that the Indiana fanbase many of whom are on lists to call to get begged for money being dissatisfied has an impact on whether or not we continue paying top dollar for expired meatloaf. Yeah I believe money makes the world go round. 

If you don’t I got some land I would like to sell you 

 

Must have mistook your point. Thought you were making a “message boards matter” point. 

[Str8Hoosiers]

15 hours ago, Josh said:

All of this makes sense.  I've always been a proponent of not bringing up problems unless you have a solution.  That's why i do have one.  But it drives some people crazy to hear the solution.  Not talking about the problem doesn't make it go away.  It's important to hold people accountable if you want to achieve success.

What is your solution?

I know it involves Firing Archie but what is the actual solution? Try Again on an unproven commodity? Start Over again?

I really do at least understand the people that don't like Archie being the coach, but I have yet to hear a valid solution or replacement from pretty much anybody... and I know we don't get to make that decision so it may be playing with fake money here.... but who is the solution? Is it realistic? Could it actually happen?

My point is my solution is Archie stays, the team begins shooting 60% from 3 to finish the season and we win it all.... obviously not realistic, obviously couldn't actually happen... but you get my point... a solution is only as good as it is possible.

[Golfman25]

28 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

What is your solution?

I know it involves Firing Archie but what is the actual solution? Try Again on an unproven commodity? Start Over again?

I really do at least understand the people that don't like Archie being the coach, but I have yet to hear a valid solution or replacement from pretty much anybody... and I know we don't get to make that decision so it may be playing with fake money here.... but who is the solution? Is it realistic? Could it actually happen?

My point is my solution is Archie stays, the team begins shooting 60% from 3 to finish the season and we win it all.... obviously not realistic, obviously couldn't actually happen... but you get my point... a solution is only as good as it is possible.

First, Archie's boss sits down with him and says "dude, you need to adapt.  What are we going to do about offense, shooting and such."  Based on his answer you decide what to do from there.     

[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

First, Archie's boss sits down with him and says "dude, you need to adapt.  What are we going to do about offense, shooting and such."  Based on his answer you decide what to do from there.     

In most places the manager has had a successful career with the substance of the operational activity, and can manage the subordinates with best practices and mentoring.

Not applicable with a college AD and a D1bball coach.

And... one should never start an evaluation meeting by calling someone “dude!”   ;)

 

[MikeRoberts]

The most promising thing I’ve seen as of late is the progression of Franklin and Galloway. That’s a freshman and sophomore that could be a starting tandem for the next few years.

while Galloway is a very good distributor and Franklin can handle the ball, we really need to see Lander come along so we have 3 guards that we can count on. 
 

the optimism ends there as I look at our front court, if TJD leaves I have no idea what the plan is. Race is not ready to play the 5 game in and game out and we cannot plan on a freshmen being ready either. We need an impact transfer in a bad way

[Str8Hoosiers]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

First, Archie's boss sits down with him and says "dude, you need to adapt.  What are we going to do about offense, shooting and such."  Based on his answer you decide what to do from there.     

His answer... "The offense is creating open shots, we aren't hitting them but we will continue to work on it in practice. The upperclassmen are the key...." - Then what do we decide to do?

His answer... "We can try to go faster.... we will hire a shooting doctor.... the upperclassmen suck, we will play only Freshmen and Sophomores..." - Then what do we decide to do?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

29 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

His answer... "The offense is creating open shots, we aren't hitting them but we will continue to work on it in practice. The upperclassmen are the key...." - Then what do we decide to do?

His answer... "We can try to go faster.... we will hire a shooting doctor.... the upperclassmen suck, we will play only Freshmen and Sophomores..." - Then what do we decide to do?

The offense really doesn't create that many open shots. Penn State just didn't play defense.