Our Upperclassmen’s Regression and a Case for Playing our 2020 Kids More

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

Gonna lay out a few stats all PER  which is a stat that I think has its flaws but a decent comparative tool when looking at the same player   Somewhat decent at comparing players on the same team.  Not a good comparative tool when comparing between teams unless the difference is drastic. First number will be last season and second number will be this years  

Al Durham - 14.9 - 11.3

Robert Phinisee - 12.8 - 10.3

Justin Smith - 8.5 - 5.2

Race Thompson - 19.3 - 20.2

 

We have five Upper Class men on this roster. 1 hasn’t played this year. 3 of the other 4 are essentially playing worse than last year.  And the other has improved slightly.  
 

Some Freshmen stats 

Khristian Lander - 4.9

Jordan Geronimo - 13.3

Trey Galloway - 9.7

Anthony Leal - 9.0

These upperclassmen aside from Race are being as effective as Freshmen. 
 

It’s time we stop playing the guys who have demonstrated they won’t get better with PT. And build for the future. 

[HoosierDYT 1,746]

I’m all for sticking up for yourself and making points, but it kinda sucks to see every single thread on this app bombarded by primarily two posters.

I appreciate your input and opinion, and I understand it’s a message board meant for discussion, it’s just kinda annoying.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

2 minutes ago, HoosierDYT said:

I’m all for sticking up for yourself and making points, but it kinda sucks to see every single thread on this app bombarded by primarily two posters.

I appreciate your input and opinion, and I understand it’s a message board meant for discussion, it’s just kinda annoying.


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Then I invite you to make topics about subjects another than our complete and abject failure as a program.  Your allowed to right? 

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

I was thinking about this watching the game yesterday. Rob, Al and Jerome are known commodities so do you let the freshmen play more even though they get lost on D?

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

Just now, Alford Bailey said:

I was thinking about this watching the game yesterday. Rob, Al and Jerome are known commodities so do you let the freshmen play more even though they get lost on D?

Yes. Our known commodities aren’t good enough to win. Playing our upperclassmen is a short term losing strategy with little to no benefits in the long term since they are already upperclassmen. 
 

If we are going to lose. Get our freshmen experience they can use for next year. 

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yes. Our known commodities aren’t good enough to win. Playing our upperclassmen is a short term losing strategy with little to no benefits in the long term since they are already upperclassmen. 
 

If we are going to lose. Get our freshmen experience they can use for next year. 

I tend to agree

[IU - Kaulie 1,876]

45 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

I was thinking about this watching the game yesterday. Rob, Al and Jerome are known commodities so do you let the freshmen play more even though they get lost on D?

Yes.  I have refused to give up on Rob but man at some point....

Hunter has no business playing at this level and the fact that Archie continues to give him minutes is bull****.  His teammates seem to like him.  That’s all I got.

I’m higher on Al than almost everyone on here it seems from what I have read.  He is the definition of a player who is not being put in a position to succeed.  The way Archie utilizes his skill set is tragic.

[Golfman25 4,746]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yes. Our known commodities aren’t good enough to win. Playing our upperclassmen is a short term losing strategy with little to no benefits in the long term since they are already upperclassmen. 
 

If we are going to lose. Get our freshmen experience they can use for next year. 

You assume the Freshman would cause us to lose.  :)  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

Everyone said I stupid for dogging on Durham last season while he continued to let us down against good teams. This year he's really just doing it against everyone. In the one game we played without him, I thought we played one of our best games. In his one good game of the season, we played one of our best games. Seems like if he's on, play him, but majority of the time, he needs to be sitting. But it seems like At his is trying to get him to come back next season by playing him a bunch. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

48 minutes ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

Yes.  I have refused to give up on Rob but man at some point....

Hunter has no business playing at this level and the fact that Archie continues to give him minutes is bull****.  His teammates seem to like him.  That’s all I got.

I’m higher on Al than almost everyone on here it seems from what I have read.  He is the definition of a player who is not being put in a position to succeed.  The way Archie utilizes his skill set is tragic.

Durham is getting screwed by Archie. He's really only good for spotting up. He really just needs to be in the corner if all we are going to do is top of key ball screens. 

[cappymo14 2,276]

I wonder how much it matters really. The lineup is Average Joe being spelled off the bench by Less Than Average Joe w/ poor defense. We are talking about getting experience for guys who will likely be career 6-7ppg scorers. There is about as much depth here as an Adam Sandler movie. There just isn’t this “hidden talent” down at the end of the bench that people seem to believe is magically going to develop through another 5 minutes of run on a team of Average Joe’s running an Average Joe offense. The kids are going to get plenty of run throughout the season. It will be enough. The guys who have potential on this team need to play like it. That’s the focus. I absolutely disagree that we should play freshmen in extended minutes to allow Lander, Leal and Galloway to clank a couple extra 3’s in important spots. It’s an empty cupboard. No doubt. Gonna get recruited over anyway with transfer market.

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

53 minutes ago, cappymo14 said:

I wonder how much it matters really. The lineup is Average Joe being spelled off the bench by Less Than Average Joe w/ poor defense. We are talking about getting experience for guys who will likely be career 6-7ppg scorers. There is about as much depth here as an Adam Sandler movie. There just isn’t this “hidden talent” down at the end of the bench that people seem to believe is magically going to develop through another 5 minutes of run on a team of Average Joe’s running an Average Joe offense. The kids are going to get plenty of run throughout the season. It will be enough. The guys who have potential on this team need to play like it. That’s the focus. I absolutely disagree that we should play freshmen in extended minutes to allow Lander, Leal and Galloway to clank a couple extra 3’s in important spots. It’s an empty cupboard. No doubt. Gonna get recruited over anyway with transfer market.

 

 

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Lander is an All-B1G talent that's playing 5 minutes a game. Leal is a solid starter. Yet we are trying to be Indiana State rather than Indiana. 

[cthomas 5,930]

I'm all for giving them minutes if they've earned them in practice. I like all of them, especially Galloway, and am looking forward to seeing them take on a bigger role......when they are ready. See the Franklin trajectory.

[cappymo14 2,276]

Lander is an All-B1G talent that's playing 5 minutes a game. Leal is a solid starter. Yet we are trying to be Indiana State rather than Indiana. 

Joe, right now Lander and Leal wouldn’t be playing much at any other School in the B1G. What evidence have you seen that says they should be getting starter minutes here? If he’s All B1G, why doesn’t he look like it? Langford was. He sure ain’t that.

 

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

11 minutes ago, cappymo14 said:

Right now Joe, Lander and Leal wouldn’t be playing much more at any other School in the B1G. What evidence have you seen that says they should be getting starter minutes here? If he’s All B1G, why doesn’t he look like it? Langford was. He sure ain’t that.



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The evidence is the fact we don't have much to lose at this point. Playing those guys, getting them minutes and getting them comfortable in games is our best bet. Because our two veteran guards are not good enough. So it's more of a why not?

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

Damn, I’d really hate to see this board if IU went into “play for the future” mode.

Why did Northwestern beat us by 30 on our home floor?! How can our defense be THAT bad to a poor Big Ten team?! Fire him yesteryear!!!


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

9 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Damn, I’d really hate to see this board if IU went into “play for the future” mode.

Why did Northwestern beat us by 30 on our home floor?! How can our defense be THAT bad to a poor Big Ten team?! Fire him yesteryear!!!


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We would actually understand at that point. Rather than playing a senior and junior who have proven over and over that they're not good enough.

[HinnyHoosier 4,345]

Did I just read that Leal is a solid starter? Like, right now? Leal is a solid starter NOW?


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[JSHoosier 19,580]

Leal is a solid starter?!?  Huh?

[cappymo14 2,276]

Look, I’m not trying to say that I don’t have any faith in the 2020 class. I think there are some interesting pieces that can give Archie flexibility and depth as they progress defensively. They really all need to do that though...progress defensively...get stronger....slow things down.

What I really think is that the team is 2 games into a 20 game conference schedule. Guys, the freshman are going to get plenty of minutes. This just isn’t an issue. This team is so starved for scoring depth, that those minutes are going to come, ready or not. You often hear about coaches using the bench as a motivator. It works for the young guys too. The upperclassmen will work harder to stay on court, and the younger guys get to learn how to play the game. The guys you are going to see on the court are inevitably going to be the guys working hard in practice and translating that into positive game minutes. It’s not going to come overnight though.

 

 

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