IUBB vs Northwestern - 12/23/20 @ 8:30 ET on BTN

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Pay top 10 dollar, expect top 10 results. That’s how every other job in any other marketplace works. Archie isn’t delivering and isn’t setting up a path to expect it will happen.

What is sad is we will have to endure 1 or 2 subpar seasons before the reality is realized by those that matter. I and most basketball folk have predicted and expected the results we will get. Next year. Same story but worse. Lovely.


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[JSHoosier]

6 hours ago, Treesh said:

I’ll support the Program and Coach. I’m still waiting for a poster to recommend a coach that will realistically come here and lead us to a final four in within 4 years. 
 

 

Since when is that the job of a poster?  Should be the AD.  I guess it's posters, not the coach, responsible for putting together a team that can hit the easiest shot in the game, or not  turn it over 16 times, or have the program looking like it's on the right path.

The administration doesn't give a crap, unfortunately fans like you seem to have accepted this as how it should be.

[cappymo14]

What is your definition of a good player?  Al shot 0% from the field, 50% from the line, had 1 rebound and had a costly TO at a crucial point in the game???   I expect more of a senior leader at the guard position.  And I expect CAM to not play such a player 35mins a game. 

Well first, I wouldn’t make the mistake of judging a players worth on the stats from 1 game, good or bad.

 

I mean, we can do that if you want I guess....

 Ok, my turn.

 

Providence

19pts

7reb

67% fga 6-9

60% 3pt. 3-5

100% ft. 4-4

 

Al’s numbers in the prior two seasons are decent enough in my opinion to qualify as what I called “not bad”. He’s averaging about the same in this season.

 

So we are now saying we don’t know why he’s getting 30+ minutes? Really? Well shoot, I can help you out here.

It’s because he’s a senior and the third leading scorer on a team that struggles to score. Make no mistake, the cupboard is bare in that respect. Just facts.

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, cappymo14 said:

Well first, I wouldn’t make the mistake of judging a players worth on the stats from 1 game, good or bad.

 

I mean, we can do that if you want I guess....

 Ok, my turn.

 

Providence

19pts

7reb

67% fga 6-9

60% 3pt. 3-5

100% ft. 4-4

 

Al’s numbers in the prior two seasons are decent enough in my opinion to qualify as what I called “not bad”. He’s averaging about the same in this season.

 

So we are now saying we don’t know why he’s getting 30+ minutes? Really? Well shoot, I can help you out here.

It’s because he’s a senior and the third leading scorer on a team that struggles to score. Make no mistake, the cupboard is bare in that respect. Just facts.

 

 

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Well that Providence game is an outlier. Last night was more consistent with what he's done this year. 

[Whoozhers]

FWIW...... a quote by the late basketball coach Jerry Tarkanian -- that reads, "Nine out of 10 schools are cheating. The other one is in last place."




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[mdn82]

7 hours ago, rcs29 said:

That's big coming from you. Not intending to be jerk but you've on the "more supportive" side than the other side. What about this game has turned you toward the other half?

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Nothing.  We are 5-3 in year four with this tough of a conference.  It’s just the reality of the situation he is in.  

[Hillsdale87]

I always respect others opinion. It means more or less to each fan. This loss is just another in a long string of embarrassing moments in the Archie tenure. I genuinely don’t see what some see that gives them hope Archie will coach a top B1G program. Zero evidence.

 

 

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I think people are overreacting to this as an "embarrassing" loss. Indiana should have won last night. The first half performance was terrible, and they needed to put it away when they went up 54-50. It's a bad loss because they put themselves in position to win and didn't close it out. But Northwestern is 5-1 with their lone loss by 1 point to what appears to be a solid Pittsburgh team. They just blew out Michigan State. We'll see how it goes the rest of the season, but Northwestern might be pretty good.

 

That's not excusing the loss or saying that we should be happy with it. Indiana needs to be able to win those games. The guards need to show up. There are certainly big issues that need to be fixed. But I just don't think that losing to this Northwestern team is the end of the world like losing to a Northwestern team of 10 years ago would have been.

 

 

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[schoosier]

8 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Another 4 year rebuild with a new coach in 2 years. I’ll be 50 by the time we are nationally competitive again....


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I was a junior at IU in 87 and I’m 54. I would suggest getting interested in other more productive hobbies while you’re waiting. I’ve made excuses for Archie but his coaching isn’t up to par with his brother and he doesn’t cheat as well either. I was hoping the Knight curse ended last year, but we need another coach to lead us out of this decades long funk. Next coach up except let’s try an Indiana guy for once.

[Josh]

8 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

Name one. 

Of all my posts, I thought this one was least controversial.   There are a lot of posters who are over the moon excited about "locking down the borders".  Ecstatic about getting Indiana Mr Basketballs.  I've seen posters say they'd rather have a lower ranked Indiana kid than one from another state.

Am I wrong?  You don't see those posts?

[Hovadipo]

34 minutes ago, Josh said:

Of all my posts, I thought this one was least controversial.   There are a lot of posters who are over the moon excited about "locking down the borders".  Ecstatic about getting Indiana Mr Basketballs.  I've seen posters say they'd rather have a lower ranked Indiana kid than one from another state.

Am I wrong?  You don't see those posts?

I would like you to call out some (or one) of these people that don’t understand basketball rather than saying “some posters on here”. 
 

It’s a simple ask. 

[Josh]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

I would like you to call out some (or one) of these people that don’t understand basketball rather than saying “some posters on here”. 
 

It’s a simple ask. 

I think there's some confusion here.  This is what I said:

Some posters on here are over the moon happy that IU is landing a bunch of Indiana kids.  They think that means we'll be NCAA title contenders.

Clearly they don't understand basketball.

It seems pretty obvious to me.  I've seen lots of people post that "closing the borders" will equal success.  Haven't you?

Do you really want me to put specific posters on blast?  That certainly wouldn't do any good on this board

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, Free Jurkin! said:

 

I think people are overreacting to this as an "embarrassing" loss. Indiana should have won last night. The first half performance was terrible, and they needed to put it away when they went up 54-50. It's a bad loss because they put themselves in position to win and didn't close it out. But Northwestern is 5-1 with their lone loss by 1 point to what appears to be a solid Pittsburgh team. They just blew out Michigan State. We'll see how it goes the rest of the season, but Northwestern might be pretty good.

 

That's not excusing the loss or saying that we should be happy with it. Indiana needs to be able to win those games. The guards need to show up. There are certainly big issues that need to be fixed. But I just don't think that losing to this Northwestern team is the end of the world like losing to a Northwestern team of 10 years ago would have been.

 

 

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Winning the second half is great and all. But not really.  

[Trish]

Rob and Al simply can’t have 2 point games. It’s unacceptable. 
 

im a huge fan of Rob. He’s an elite defender in the B1G. He was generally impressive with his IQ his freshman year. He honestly looks like a shell of himself last year and this year. The injuries, concussion, and rumors of his girlfriend with the team almost could seem verified at this point. Obviously there’s still time for his to perform on offense, but man I’ll admit it’s ugly for him. 
 

Al is Al. I can sit here and say he’s a CTC recruit but I won’t. He’s grown in areas but not significantly enough to where he’s contributing at a high level as senior. 
 

Glad to see Frank show some growth the past month compared to last season, that’s a positive!

[Hillsdale87]

Rob and Al simply can’t have 2 point games. It’s unacceptable. 
 
im a huge fan of Rob. He’s an elite defender in the B1G. He was generally impressive with his IQ his freshman year. He honestly looks like a shell of himself last year and this year. The injuries, concussion, and rumors of his girlfriend with the team almost could seem verified at this point. Obviously there’s still time for his to perform on offense, but man I’ll admit it’s ugly for him. 
 
Al is Al. I can sit here and say he’s a CTC recruit but I won’t. He’s grown in areas but not significantly enough to where he’s contributing at a high level as senior. 
 
Glad to see Frank show some growth the past month compared to last season, that’s a positive!

I disagree about Rob's basketball IQ. Low turnover numbers is not the same as high basketball IQ. He has always been passive and not stressed the defense. He rarely gets himself or the ball into positions that will break down the defense. Only taking what the defense gives you, and not being an aggressor, is a sign of low basketball IQ. He's like a QB who only throws check down passes. Maybe the basketball IQ is there but he lacks the confidence to make the necessary plays. Either way, there's always been something missing, and at this point I don't know if it's going to be fixed.


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[Hillsdale87]

Winning the second half is great and all. But not really.  

That's of course definitely not what I said at all. It was a bad performance and a game IU needed to win and should have. Fans and the team should be upset. I just think people are dismissing Northwestern too much. They appear to be pretty solid. A loss can be disappointing without being humiliating to the program. I would say this is just a bad loss, but one that they can recover from. Hopefully they respond well Saturday


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[mdn82]

28 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Rob and Al simply can’t have 2 point games. It’s unacceptable. 
 

im a huge fan of Rob. He’s an elite defender in the B1G. He was generally impressive with his IQ his freshman year. He honestly looks like a shell of himself last year and this year. The injuries, concussion, and rumors of his girlfriend with the team almost could seem verified at this point. Obviously there’s still time for his to perform on offense, but man I’ll admit it’s ugly for him. 
 

Al is Al. I can sit here and say he’s a CTC recruit but I won’t. He’s grown in areas but not significantly enough to where he’s contributing at a high level as senior. 
 

Glad to see Frank show some growth the past month compared to last season, that’s a positive!

I think all of our guards played awful at both ends last night.  They didn’t move the ball to create opportunities for TJD even after he screamed at them to get him the ******* ball.  They all drove into traffic.  Defensively they weren’t getting out on shooters.  Ray ******* Charles could see they needed to do that after they beat MSU.  We just got out physicalled by Northwestern at home.  In year 4 that just can’t happen.  Archie has an uphill battle to right this. I know where everyone sits today, and I don’t blame them.  I can only hope we win.  But we don’t even have the right mentality to get us in the ballpark.  That’s a collective failure and starts at the top.  

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

That's of course definitely not what I said at all. It was a bad performance and a game IU needed to win and should have. Fans and the team should be upset. I just think people are dismissing Northwestern too much. They appear to be pretty solid. A loss can be disappointing without being humiliating to the program. I would say this is just a bad loss, but one that they can recover from. Hopefully they respond well Saturday


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It’s too late to be figuring things out. Archie has had 4 years to solve a basic problem. The problem of guards not knowing what to do 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I think all of our guards played awful at both ends last night.  They didn’t move the ball to create opportunities for TJD even after he screamed at them to get him the ******* ball.  They all drove into traffic.  Defensively they weren’t getting out on shooters.  Ray ******* Charles could see they needed to do that after they beat MSU.  We just got out physicalled by Northwestern at home.  In year 4 that just can’t happen.  Archie has an uphill battle to right this. I know where everyone sits today, and I don’t blame them.  I can only hope we win.  But we don’t even have the right mentality to get us in the ballpark.  That’s a collective failure and starts at the top.  

I like the tone of this. This is Archie for 3 straight years with these guys. It isn’t working. Rob and Al are virtually the same players they’ve been all along.

 

I’ve seen formulas of winning with 5 stars work. I’ve seen ‘getting old’ work. I’ve seen being a great X/O coach work.

 

I don’t know what works for Archie at this level.

 

Having 2 or 3 transcendent players is the surest strategy despite the coach. For the most part our recruits are playing to their recruit ranking or some of them below. I can’t explain it. I can tell Archie “changed” the offense this year. But it’s still awful. Even when we hit a few 3. It’s just not pretty basketball. No backcuts. No off ball screens.

 

And this was a team composition Archie had confidence in.

 

 

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[Hoosier Guy]

9 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

That's of course definitely not what I said at all. It was a bad performance and a game IU needed to win and should have. Fans and the team should be upset. I just think people are dismissing Northwestern too much. They appear to be pretty solid. A loss can be disappointing without being humiliating to the program. I would say this is just a bad loss, but one that they can recover from. Hopefully they respond well Saturday


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Northwestern had just come off of a huge win against Michigan State. This game was going to be tough. The loss isn’t humiliating for the program. It’s not a game IU should lose at home though

[Hoosier Guy]

12 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

I think all of our guards played awful at both ends last night.  They didn’t move the ball to create opportunities for TJD even after he screamed at them to get him the ******* ball.  They all drove into traffic.  Defensively they weren’t getting out on shooters.  Ray ******* Charles could see they needed to do that after they beat MSU.  We just got out physicalled by Northwestern at home.  In year 4 that just can’t happen.  Archie has an uphill battle to right this. I know where everyone sits today, and I don’t blame them.  I can only hope we win.  But we don’t even have the right mentality to get us in the ballpark.  That’s a collective failure and starts at the top.  

Anyone who sees my posts knows that I want Archie to succeed. I really do. It just doesn’t look like that’s going to be the case though. I shouldn’t be hoping for effort on a game by game basis. That’s to be expected every single game. Too many times IU comes out flat and that’s coaching. It’s Archie’s job to get the team ready to play. All of that is before we get to the product on the court. That isn’t good either