The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[Napleshoosier]

Brutally honest take: this program is a mess and we're never getting it back.

You missing Clappy the Clown or something? It will be back.


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[Napleshoosier]

Man, you guys are being Debbie Downers. Sack up guys. Things will workout fine. Uncle Nips says so! Trust in the Nips! If not, well there’s always the “guys trip” to Costa Rica! Lol


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[HoosierAloha]

Saw something crazy yesterday.

We went:
12-2
1-12
6-2

18-4 with a holy hell we just pooped our pants B1G season. Things that make you realize there were larger issues going on...


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You don’t go 1-12 with the talent we have unless there were chemistry issues. You just don’t.


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[Deserthoozier]

1 hour ago, InArchWeTrust said:

I'm not interested in turning this into a Dan Dakich thread but ... below isn't exactly the record of a coach who had it all figured out.  

Season	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Postseason
Bowling Green (Mid-American Conference) (1997–2007)
1997–98	Bowling Green	10–16	7–11	8th
1998–99	Bowling Green	18–10	12–6	4th
1999–00	Bowling Green	22–8	14–4	1st	NIT First Round
2000–01	Bowling Green	15–14	10–8	7th
2001–02	Bowling Green	24–9	12–6	3rd	NIT First Round
2002–03	Bowling Green	13–16	8–10	9th
2003–04	Bowling Green	14–17	8–10	7th
2004–05	Bowling Green	18–11	10–8	8th
2005–06	Bowling Green	9–21	5–13	10th
2006–07	Bowling Green	13–18	3–13	12th
Bowling Green:		156–140	89–89

Well, well ... I didn’t realize he was such a 1st round NIT expert! I would listen to his dribble with slightly different ears had I known.

[A.j. Nigh]

59 minutes ago, ebridges24 said:

yea, just look at those last two years in conference, 8 total wins in two years. somebody lost their grip on the program me thinks.

He likes to blame injuries (I believe at least his last 3 years he claims he lost his 2 best players each year to injury), yet it’s ironic that he doesn’t give Archie any leeway due to that this year.  

All you need to know about DD is wrapped up in something he said today (yes I listen when in the car, not a fan, but I listen as much for the laughs).  He was asked to name 5 former IU players that could turn around the IU program, he named himself 2nd behind Alford.  Any normal person without an axe to grind doesn’t mention himself in that answer.  

[RaceToTheTop]

Neutral look at if we improved this year from last:

KenPom ratings:

2017-8:  

overall end of the season rating:  

offense:  #92

defense:  #65

overall:  #71

2018-9:

offense:  #78

defense:  #30

overall: #50

Now obviously we have big losses in Juwan and most certainly Romeo to contend with.  However, the defensive improvement since Miller has taken over has been very noteworthy and I would say that is something that Romeo was not a big part of...and I would say that was the weaker part of Juwan's game as well as he was a better offensive than defensive player.  Personally, my thought is that being healthy and bringing in TJD cancels out the loss of Morgan and Langford.

When Archie took over, the team was ranked 104th defensively.  That improved 39 spots his first year and 35 this year.  Obviously you can't see that kind of improvement forever (he's not going to ranked -5th next year, LOL) but as the system gets in place, you can expect the improvement to be maintained.  

Teams that nearly match our current 30/78 ratings are Ohio State (25/79) and Penn State (26/74).  Basically, the difference in Ohio State/Indiana/Penn State is how well they finished in close games.  Indiana was 8-7 in games decided by 5 or less or went OT;  Ohio State was 5-2; Penn State was 2-9.  In the other games -- games decided by 5 or more points -- they were all basically the same team (IU was 11-9, Ohio State was 15-13, Penn State was 12-9).  Yes, two of those losses IU had were to OSU and Holtmann.  But I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater based on those two.

If we assume the rate of improvement in offense and defense continues into year 3 that we had from years 1 and 2, I would expect an offense somewhere in the 60s and defense around 20s.  If we look at teams with rankings near those spots this year, the four teams that match up the best with those rankings are:

Oregon (15/72)

Oklahoma (23/59)

Syracuse (25/60)

Florida (14/63)

All four of those teams were tournament teams (seeds of 12, 9, 8, and 10).  Oregon is interesting because they earned the bid by winning the PAC 12 championship but considering they've now won four straight games (Arizona St, Washington, Wisconsin, and Cal-Irvine) by 67 points against teams that were in the NCAA tournament, I think they showed they belong.

So my expectation next year is that we look to come into the season on the right side of the bubble.

 

[RaceToTheTop]

15 minutes ago, A.j. Nigh said:

He likes to blame injuries (I believe at least his last 3 years he claims he lost his 2 best players each year to injury), yet it’s ironic that he doesn’t give Archie any leeway due to that this year.  

All you need to know about DD is wrapped up in something he said today (yes I listen when in the car, not a fan, but I listen as much for the laughs).  He was asked to name 5 former IU players that could turn around the IU program, he named himself 2nd behind Alford.  Any normal person without an axe to grind doesn’t mention himself in that answer.  

Hey Dan, UCLA says hi.

[SlamaJamaSisley]

9 minutes ago, A.j. Nigh said:

He was asked to name 5 former IU players that could turn around the IU program, he named himself 2nd behind Alford.  Any normal person without an axe to grind doesn’t mention himself in that answer.  

And NOW we know the RRRREST of the story!         Good day!

[RaceToTheTop]

 

19 minutes ago, A.j. Nigh said:

He likes to blame injuries (I believe at least his last 3 years he claims he lost his 2 best players each year to injury), yet it’s ironic that he doesn’t give Archie any leeway due to that this year.  

All you need to know about DD is wrapped up in something he said today (yes I listen when in the car, not a fan, but I listen as much for the laughs).  He was asked to name 5 former IU players that could turn around the IU program, he named himself 2nd behind Alford.  Any normal person without an axe to grind doesn’t mention himself in that answer.  

If you had done a U-turn, you would have turned around more than Dakich ever could.

[tortex28]

It begins and ends with CULTURE. O$U doesn’t have to go through a rebuild because their culture was there before Holtmann. Ditto for UL and other programs. Why, at the end of the season, do we question their heart and effort?! Culture!!!

There are so many cliches for this stuff.

Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard. (Or adapt and take on a new role)

Johnny Dawkins had a locker room full of players filling buckets with tears because THEY FREAKING CARED! We have players that aren’t upset because now they can put it on cruise control.

Archie didn’t forget how to coach. He took teams with lesser talent further. If you couldn’t see how pissed he was throughout the year you were drinking at Nips level.

I couldn’t care less about star rating over the next 2-3 years. Give me a Race Thompson or Aljahmi Durham that’s going to work. Give me Joey Brunk that can help with locker room issues.

Far too often, we had one or two players trying to lift the half ton rock by themselves while the rest of the team wasn’t interested. We need a full team pushing in the right direction.

You could see through body language, effort, and interactions who gave a damn and who didn’t. Those kids that don’t need to move along to a better fit. This program won’t get anywhere near its potential until hard work and effort in EVERYTHING they do is the baseline.

This program is better than letting kids run the damn thing.


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Tell it like it is!

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[tortex28]

Yes he is very good but I was commenting on someone saying he was light years ahead of Archie. This is his 12th season at WSU, took him 5 years to get them to the NCAA and of course, they missed this year. 

Point noted

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[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, ebridges24 said:

unless you're Duke or Kentucky, you need 3 guys that can be a legit threat from 3 and we have none

I would say Green qualifies as one. 41% last year and 40% for his career.  Have to remember he started the year 1 of his first 12 and shot 45% from three from that point on.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

You don’t go 1-12 with the talent we have unless there were chemistry issues. You just don’t.


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Yes, there were chemistry issues.  I just think (and thought before the year started) that the estimation of the 'talent we have' was way overstated.  Al Durham -- God love him -- was a starter (deservedly so) on this team.  Our starting point guard was a freshman who wasn't a top 100 recruit.  Juwan Morgan -- love him to death --might never play a minute in the NBA.  I think this team had four guys on it that were top 100 recruits out of high school:  Hunter, Smith, Langford, Davis.  One didn't play a minute and another had limited minutes coming back from an ACL.  

[Hovadipo]

2 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Saw something crazy yesterday.

We went:
12-2
1-12
6-2

18-4 with a holy hell we just pooped our pants B1G season. Things that make you realize there were larger issues going on...


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It doesn’t make it right or OK, but we were some BS HORSE shots from being like 21-11 and having a relatively happy fanbase, or some entitlement issues away from maybe even being about 24-8 and possibly still playing. (If if’s and but’s blah blah, I know)

For all of our on-court flaws, there was some flukey shizz that tanked this season as much as anything in my opinion. 

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea if my math is right, I just started typing. 

[TheWatShot]

2 hours ago, Napleshoosier said:

You missing Clappy the Clown or something? It will be back.


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So when we have a halfway decent season again, will it be the 4th or 5th time "We're Back"? I've lost count.

[Stuhoo]

5 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

It doesn’t make it right or OK, but we were some BS HORSE shots from being like 21-11 and having a relatively happy fanbase, or some entitlement issues away from maybe even being about 24-8 and possibly still playing. (If if’s and but’s blah blah, I know)

For all of our on-court flaws, there was some flukey shizz that tanked this season as much as anything in my opinion. 

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea if my math is right, I just started typing. 

 

I just accessed the Purdooo interweb datatechsite-omatic, and your math is EXACTLY CORRECT!

Especially about the 'flukey shizz'. 

 

[Hovadipo]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

 

I just accessed the Purdooo interweb datatechsite-omatic, and your math is EXACTLY CORRECT!

Especially about the 'flukey shizz'. 

 

They got to the moon with that thing, I trust it!

[HoosierAloha]

Tell it like it is!

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I’m sick and tired of hearing about this coach and that coach. You don’t win games unless you’re mentally and physically tough. It doesn’t matter your position. We have a bunch of kids that want to be coddled because they didn’t get to play the position they wanted or the coach didn’t get them enough shots. The ******* kids need to prove themselves. If they don’t want to prove themselves they can go join the e-sports league so they can play whatever damn position they want.

It’s not a democracy it’s an autocracy. We have kids all smiles and giggles that it’s over. What does that say about you and your competitive spirit?! It’s a damn shame they get the privilege to wear that uniform and use that practice facility when their only concern is themselves.


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[yogisballin]

This. Few people are willing to recognize the hurdle this team overcame at the end of the year regardless of making the field of 68 (or not).
1-12 could have been even worse. But they rose to the occasion against some solid teams at the end of the year and still had themselves in consideration for March. They played better than expected without Langford. They seem to have overcome whatever personal dissonance was afoot during that stretch. And the injury bug; you’d have thought it was a communicable disease on this team.

Believe it or not, there was a little positive in all that was the 2018-2019 season.



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Did we really play that well without Romeo though? I mean the competition wasn’t that great either


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[tortex28]

You don’t go 1-12 with the talent we have unless there were chemistry issues. You just don’t.


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I didn't think our talent was that great

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