Random Archie/Basketball Talk

[HoosierFan1994]

I have been busy lately and haven't been able to post as much. I really enjoy reading everyones opinions about this team. There really is no excuse to go from 12-2 to 13-11. This season isn't over yet but it sure does look like they took a step backwards in year two of the Archie Miller era. I really like Archie and I'm not ready to can him yet. He got a pass last year and won't this year. It is just frustrating to see Louisville have success in Mack's first year. Chris Beard took Texas Tech to the Elite 8 in year two. It also seems the players are tuning him out like we see in the NBA. I totally agree that there aren't gym rats on this team and it is about culture. A few things about this years team:

1) We didn't see the jump from certain players like we wanted to. Ex: Devonte is the same player he was a year ago, McRoberts has been a shell of himself partly due to injuries, Justin Smith didn't have the season we all thought he would-granted he was a reserve last year, and Juwan really didn't improve. That's not a knock on him, just a fact. Fitzner has been terrible. Quite frankly we all should have seen it coming. He regressed each year at a WCC school. 

2) Romeo wasn't as good as we (including me) all thought. He is a very good player but he shouldn't be a one and done. The experts were right on the 2018 class. They all said it was a down class outside of ESPN's favorites in RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson. Example: Based off of his ESPN grade (95) they would have Romeo as #12-16 in this years rankings. He was #5 last year. I am sure it is similar with Rivals and 247. Not saying rankings are everything, but it puts the hype into some perspective. Also, he probably isn't a lottery pick withthe 2019 class as a freshman. If he comes back and gets better I think he could. 

3) Jerome not playing really hurts. He is going to be a good player for IU. He can play the 2-4. I would have to think he would have started this year. 

I think they will be MUCH better next year. No, I'm not saying they'll be a final four team. However, I think you will see more guys that want it and will play hard for CAM. Rob, Al, and Justin need to really improve next year. Hope they have the same drive as Hulls, Sheehey, and Oladipo did in the 2011 offseason. Zeller gets a lot of credit but those three improved so much.  TJD will be a big man that we haven't had since Thomas Bryant. I'm not sure on his height but I think he is much better at the 5 than Juwan Morgan or Justin Smith. Keion Brooks would be perfect here. I think he and TJD are 2-3 year players. Add Jerome Hunter in there and you could have a hell of a top 6 rotation. All 6 could come back for the 2020-2021 season (2 jr, 1 so, 3 fr). Armaan Franklin is going to provide depth and have a role that we all thought Rob would have this year. I hope De'ron comes back next year. Really like what he has brought to the team even in his limited role. I'd love a grad transfer big man and/or shooter. If not, Damezi and Jake are going to have to get better if they want PT. I didn't think they would be playing as much as they have been this year (which at times hasn't been much). Not sure what the future holds for Devonte, De'ron, Clifton, and Race. 

It is frustrating as a fan. I'm tired of losing and being mediocre. However, I think year three will be positive for IU. If not, yes changes will need to be made. Archie isn't getting a free pass. This year has been awful and he deserves the blame. You can't lose the team like he has. However, I'm excited for who he is bringing in. Archie has said all the right things, now it is time to see results. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

I really started thinking about our roster for next season. With/without some we think may or may not transfer at seasons end. Man, from an offensive standpoint, I do not like our roster makeup right now. I see very little shooting and ball handling. We need guards and we need both guard spots. Yeah defensively we “should be” solid. we’ll be so long at nearly every spot but at PG.

there is 4 from this years team I want to see gone for sure. (I won’t name them) it’s not even counting any of the seniors either. This is why I’ve said that he needs to recruit at all cost like all of the big boys do. I mean it, time is now. Hell no, the time was yesterday


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And that will be they the day I stop supporting my Hoosiers. I want to win as bad as anyone else. But if I have support cheating? Nope

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[RatpigHoosier]

So let’s fast forward one year. Say we lose JM, McBob, Fitzner (given) and Romeo (99.9% given), and we lose 2-3 others that are not well thought of right now (you fill in those names). Now next year’s roster is filled with guys that play hard and smart BUT are still 13-11 and 4-9 in the B1G, what will the conversation be like? Will most of us be happier even though the record isn’t better but the on-court product is more appealing? Or will some still be wanting to crucify CAM even though the culture is beginning to take shape?


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[Bailey7878]

So let’s fast forward one year. Say we lose JM, McBob, Fitzner (given) and Romeo (99.9% given), and we lose 2-3 others that are not well thought of right now (you fill in those names). Now next year’s roster is filled with guys that play hard and smart BUT are still 13-11 and 4-9 in the B1G, what will the conversation be like? Will most of us be happier even though the record isn’t better but the on-court product is more appealing? Or will some still be wanting to crucify CAM even though the culture is beginning to take shape?


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He gets four years period at a minimum. Glass is not firing him after three years no matter what so its a mute point.

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[RatpigHoosier]

He gets four years period at a minimum. Glass is not firing him after three years no matter what so its a mute point.

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I get that. I’m talking about our reaction as fans on this board. Have some people become so sour on CAM that it’s irretrievable?


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[Bailey7878]

I get that. I’m talking about our reaction as fans on this board. Have some people become so sour on CAM that it’s irretrievable?


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Winning changes peoples minds very fast

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[HoosierAloha]

So let’s fast forward one year. Say we lose JM, McBob, Fitzner (given) and Romeo (99.9% given), and we lose 2-3 others that are not well thought of right now (you fill in those names). Now next year’s roster is filled with guys that play hard and smart BUT are still 13-11 and 4-9 in the B1G, what will the conversation be like? Will most of us be happier even though the record isn’t better but the on-court product is more appealing? Or will some still be wanting to crucify CAM even though the culture is beginning to take shape?


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I’m not happy with anything regarding this program right now. We play like entitled kids who shouldn’t have to work to win. The culture shift needed to start this year and it didn’t happen. I’ll be happy when the program is actually playing good, tough, and smart basketball that gives them a chance to win every game. This team is playing like a bunch of ________.


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[8bucks]

I get that. I’m talking about our reaction as fans on this board. Have some people become so sour on CAM that it’s irretrievable?


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Good thing is most become apathetic instead. Like me we just check in occasionally but tune out mostly. Don’t care.

If the team starts winning many will check back in more regularly


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[IU - Kaulie]

Dakich said offensively this isn’t a Romeo or Juwan problem.  This is a coaching problem.  He is a exactly right.  It doesn’t matter the players we have or don’t have or whatever.  It ain’t about recruiting or Crean leaving us with a bad hand.  Stop with the excuses.  If you enjoy seeing no player movement, and a simple weave at the top with dribble handoffs then CAM is your guy.  This isn’t going to change and it doesn’t make one damn bit of difference who is wearing the jerseys.

I don’t understand how a coach at this level can’t get a Romeo Langford type quality looks at the basket and shots.  That’s beyond me.  He will be a much better pro player than a college player and that is incredibly sad.

I’m an IU fan and will hope I’m wrong and that this changes but I have also been around enough basketball and coaches to know sadly it won’t.  This is what we have.  I would argue the way the Board questioned Glass at their annual luncheon a few weeks ago about the state of the football team and men’s basketball that it may not be for long.

 

[jonz44]

4 hours ago, Honkyman said:

It doesn't make sense for anyone on this team to transfer. With four players either graduating or going to the NBA, there will be more opportunity for playing time. Plus, top schools won't be interested in these players. If Davis graduates, he might want to use his last year of eligibility to go to a program that has a chance to compete for a title next year. Like or not, the current squad minus the three graduating and one going to the NBA (plus the two commits) is probably the IU team next year. Unless the current team shows some life during the rest of this season, it will be difficult to attract any more players of real value.

If I'm Archie there are a few players that I'm sitting down with at the end of the season and telling "It would be in your best interest to transfer elsewhere. You will not see the floor next year because I don't trust your work ethic." 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, jonz44 said:

If I'm Archie there are a few players that I'm sitting down with at the end of the season and telling "It would be in your best interest to transfer elsewhere. You will not see the floor next year because I don't trust your work ethic." 

What players would that be?  The ones I suspect you mean would probably view it as an empty threat based on Archie’s actions so far

[ViaSwiss]

9 minutes ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

Dakich said offensively this isn’t a Romeo or Juwan problem.  This is a coaching problem.  He is a exactly right.  It doesn’t matter the players we have or don’t have or whatever.  It ain’t about recruiting or Crean leaving us with a bad hand.  Stop with the excuses.  If you enjoy seeing no player movement, and a simple weave at the top with dribble handoffs then CAM is your guy.  This isn’t going to change and it doesn’t make one damn bit of difference who is wearing the jerseys.

I don’t understand how a coach at this level can’t get a Romeo Langford type quality looks at the basket and shots.  That’s beyond me.  He will be a much better pro player than a college player and that is incredibly sad.

I’m an IU fan and will hope I’m wrong and that this changes but I have also been around enough basketball and coaches to know sadly it won’t.  This is what we have.  I would argue the way the Board questioned Glass at their annual luncheon a few weeks ago about the state of the football team and men’s basketball that it may not be for long.

 

I partially disagree. Romeo is pretty lazy on offense when he doesnt have the ball. He stands in one spot for long periods of time. He doesnt run off screen hard and he rarely cuts or looks for back doors. If you look at how much other players his "calibre" in the past (Held, Valentine, etc.) run in the past its probably 3-4x as much as Romeo. I love the kid, I am so happy he chose IU. But there is a piece missing from his makeup right now, and its his mentality. He is just not a killer right now. Some of that is on Archie, but a lot of it is on Romeo too. 

[jonz44]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

What players would that be?  The ones I suspect you mean would probably view it as an empty threat based on Archie’s actions so far

I don't believe we're supposed to mention names so I won't but I will say that I do agree with you that based on what we've seen those (that?) player would view it as an empty threat. That's the first thing that needs to change. The rest of this season would be the opportunity to provide them with the impetus to leave. 

[IU - Kaulie]

21 minutes ago, ViaSwiss said:

I partially disagree. Romeo is pretty lazy on offense when he doesnt have the ball. He stands in one spot for long periods of time. He doesnt run off screen hard and he rarely cuts or looks for back doors. If you look at how much other players his "calibre" in the past (Held, Valentine, etc.) run in the past its probably 3-4x as much as Romeo. I love the kid, I am so happy he chose IU. But there is a piece missing from his makeup right now, and its his mentality. He is just not a killer right now. Some of that is on Archie, but a lot of it is on Romeo too. 

I have to strongly disagree here.  Romeo standing on the wing is more a product of the offense than him simply being lazy.  The CAM offense is predicated on ball movement not player movement except the simple dribble handoff from the top of the key.  That offense may have worked at Dayton but that ain’t going to get it done at this level.  

[8bucks]

Really glad to see Archie’s comments post game but he has to act on them. Fans need to see something different.

Not sure who he is speaking of but are we ready if he benches Romeo? Can’t imagine it would be JoMo but what if he were benched.

Do we want Archie to take a stand even if it sends a conflicting message to 5 star recruits?

I will be glad to see him take a stand but things could get worse before they get better.


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[Alford Bailey]

3 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Really glad to see Archie’s comments post game but he has to act on them. Fans need to see something different.

Not sure who he is speaking of but are we ready if he benches Romeo? Can’t imagine it would be JoMo but what if he were benched.

Do we want Archie to take a stand even if it sends a conflicting message to 5 star recruits?

I will be glad to see him take a stand but things could get worse before they get better.


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Sit Morgan. We beat MSU without him.

[Alford Bailey]

Recruiting needs to ramp up. If the current slump starts to affect Archies recruiting then there is not point. This current bunch aint gonna get t done.

[8bucks]

Recruiting needs to ramp up. If the current slump starts to affect Archies recruiting then there is not point. This current bunch aint gonna get t done.

Not saying I know anything but if your current prize recruit is struggling to play as hard as you want. Does benching him hurt your chances with other high end recruits? Can you risk that? But then again, if you have lost 10 of 12 or something like that then can you risk not doing it.


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[HoosierAloha]

Not saying I know anything but if your current prize recruit is struggling to play as hard as you want. Does benching him hurt your chances with other high end recruits? Can you risk that? But then again, if you have lost 10 of 12 or something like that then can you risk not doing it.


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Bench them. Do you give up what got you here (Archie) to bow down to a recruit? If you’re winning recruits will come. Archie needs bulldogs that compete not soft kids who don’t compete.


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[yogisballin]

And that will be they the day I stop supporting my Hoosiers. I want to win as bad as anyone else. But if I have support cheating? Nope

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Nearly everyone else does it nowadays. It’s not like there is only 4-5 programs doing it anymore.


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