Per Rabjohns McRobbie to blaim for lack of athletic success

[mdn82]

Plus Creans recruiting budget... What does that mean? I don’t know why people bring that up. We don’t have a plane therefore our budget for recruiting is artificially higher than a lot of schools. A lot of schools don’t place their private plane usage in their budget because they own it already. So the maintenance and fuel can be place on the Facilities budget. Also, even if he had the money to be spent on travels that isn’t what the players were being paid with. They were paid from and by shoe companies. I just don’t get why that is brought up at all.


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[mdn82]

 

Sadly I agree with that.


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[moyemayhem]

I'm just not sold that athletic success has any meaningful long term impact on academic success.  It goes without saying that most of the best colleges in the US are private schools that spend virtually no money on athletics.  But even when we focus only on Public Universities in the Power 5 conferences (like Indiana), it's just hard to find much correlation between athletic revenues and academic ranking.

Rank Athletic Revenue (USA Today)	Rank Academic (USNew&World Report)	School	Conf	Total Revenue	Total Expenses
1	15	Texas	Big 12	$214,830,647	$207,022,323
2	25	Texas A&M	SEC	$211,960,034	$146,546,229
3	17	Ohio State	Big Ten	$185,409,602	$173,507,435
4	4	Michigan	Big Ten	$185,173,187	$175,425,392
5	61	Alabama	SEC	$174,307,419	$158,646,962
6	13	Georgia	SEC	$157,852,479	$119,218,908
7	58	Oklahoma	Big 12	$155,238,481	$132,910,780
8	9	Florida	SEC	$149,165,475	$131,789,499
9	71	LSU	SEC	$147,744,233	$131,717,421
10	53	Auburn	SEC	$147,511,034	$132,885,979
11	55	Tennessee	SEC	$145,653,191	$134,880,229
12	45	Oregon	Pac-12	$145,417,315	$119,945,650
13	26	Florida State	ACC	$144,514,413	$143,373,261
14	20	Penn State	Big Ten	$144,017,055	$138,724,055
15	16	Wisconsin	Big Ten	$143,420,668	$142,930,591
16	51	South Carolina	SEC	$136,032,845	$129,317,382
17	77	Kentucky	SEC	$130,706,744	$125,333,866
18	41	Iowa	Big Ten	$130,681,467	$128,869,211
19	78	Arkansas	SEC	$129,680,808	$112,902,474
20	21	Washington	Pac-12	$128,745,183	$123,503,513
21	36	Michigan State	Big Ten	$126,021,377	$117,506,272
22	96	Louisville	ACC	$120,445,303	$118,383,769
23	65	Nebraska	Big Ten	$120,205,090	$112,571,632
24	79	Mississippi	SEC	$117,834,511	$108,885,512
25	30	Minnesota	Big Ten	$116,376,862	$114,201,678
26	24	Clemson	ACC	$112,600,964	$111,126,235
27	120	West Virginia	Big 12	$110,565,870	$89,196,193
28	38	Indiana	Big Ten	$106,139,192	$106,131,819
29	1	UCLA	Pac-12	$104,106,646	$104,106,646
30	52	Arizona State	Pac-12	$101,579,860	$98,825,395
31	97	Mississippi State	SEC	$100,062,237	$86,351,432
32	64	Missouri	SEC	$97,848,195	$102,409,131
33	14	Illinois	Big Ten	$97,447,731	$100,739,817
34	19	Rutgers	Big Ten	$96,883,027	$99,193,280
35	6	North Carolina	ACC	$96,551,626	$96,540,823
36	63	Kansas	Big 12	$95,251,461	$94,709,233
37	23	Maryland	Big Ten	$94,881,357	$94,796,897
38	43	Colorado	Pac-12	$94,226,111	$90,640,627
39	3	Virginia	ACC	$92,865,175	$100,324,517
40	81	Oklahoma State	Big 12	$91,644,865	$89,833,094
41	49	Arizona	Pac-12	$90,976,758	$91,756,963
42	2	California	Pac-12	$90,976,576	$106,959,739
43	102	Texas Tech	Big 12	$88,804,476	$86,984,083
44	31	Virginia Tech	ACC	$87,427,526	$90,716,423
45	75	Kansas State	Big 12	$86,081,528	$73,970,354
46	18	Purdue	Big Ten	$84,841,133	$85,709,495
47	34	North Carolina State	ACC	$83,741,572	$86,924,779
48	57	Utah	Pac-12	$83,672,639	$81,620,307
50	56	Iowa State	Big 12	$82,659,447	$82,565,176
51	8	Georgia Tech	ACC	$81,762,024	$84,852,123
52	72	Oregon State	Pac-12	$78,959,875	$82,730,626
53	74	Washington State	Pac-12	$64,294,520	$71,801,820

[mdn82]

I'm just not sold that athletic success has any meaningful long term impact on academic success.  It goes without saying that most of the best colleges in the US are private schools that spend virtually no money on athletics.  But even when we focus only on Public Universities in the Power 5 conferences (like Indiana), it's just hard to find much correlation between athletic revenues and academic ranking.

Rank Athletic Revenue (USA Today)	Rank Academic (USNew&World Report)	School	Conf	Total Revenue	Total Expenses
1	15	Texas	Big 12	$214,830,647	$207,022,323
2	25	Texas A&M	SEC	$211,960,034	$146,546,229
3	17	Ohio State	Big Ten	$185,409,602	$173,507,435
4	4	Michigan	Big Ten	$185,173,187	$175,425,392
5	61	Alabama	SEC	$174,307,419	$158,646,962
6	13	Georgia	SEC	$157,852,479	$119,218,908
7	58	Oklahoma	Big 12	$155,238,481	$132,910,780
8	9	Florida	SEC	$149,165,475	$131,789,499
9	71	LSU	SEC	$147,744,233	$131,717,421
10	53	Auburn	SEC	$147,511,034	$132,885,979
11	55	Tennessee	SEC	$145,653,191	$134,880,229
12	45	Oregon	Pac-12	$145,417,315	$119,945,650
13	26	Florida State	ACC	$144,514,413	$143,373,261
14	20	Penn State	Big Ten	$144,017,055	$138,724,055
15	16	Wisconsin	Big Ten	$143,420,668	$142,930,591
16	51	South Carolina	SEC	$136,032,845	$129,317,382
17	77	Kentucky	SEC	$130,706,744	$125,333,866
18	41	Iowa	Big Ten	$130,681,467	$128,869,211
19	78	Arkansas	SEC	$129,680,808	$112,902,474
20	21	Washington	Pac-12	$128,745,183	$123,503,513
21	36	Michigan State	Big Ten	$126,021,377	$117,506,272
22	96	Louisville	ACC	$120,445,303	$118,383,769
23	65	Nebraska	Big Ten	$120,205,090	$112,571,632
24	79	Mississippi	SEC	$117,834,511	$108,885,512
25	30	Minnesota	Big Ten	$116,376,862	$114,201,678
26	24	Clemson	ACC	$112,600,964	$111,126,235
27	120	West Virginia	Big 12	$110,565,870	$89,196,193
28	38	Indiana	Big Ten	$106,139,192	$106,131,819
29	1	UCLA	Pac-12	$104,106,646	$104,106,646
30	52	Arizona State	Pac-12	$101,579,860	$98,825,395
31	97	Mississippi State	SEC	$100,062,237	$86,351,432
32	64	Missouri	SEC	$97,848,195	$102,409,131
33	14	Illinois	Big Ten	$97,447,731	$100,739,817
34	19	Rutgers	Big Ten	$96,883,027	$99,193,280
35	6	North Carolina	ACC	$96,551,626	$96,540,823
36	63	Kansas	Big 12	$95,251,461	$94,709,233
37	23	Maryland	Big Ten	$94,881,357	$94,796,897
38	43	Colorado	Pac-12	$94,226,111	$90,640,627
39	3	Virginia	ACC	$92,865,175	$100,324,517
40	81	Oklahoma State	Big 12	$91,644,865	$89,833,094
41	49	Arizona	Pac-12	$90,976,758	$91,756,963
42	2	California	Pac-12	$90,976,576	$106,959,739
43	102	Texas Tech	Big 12	$88,804,476	$86,984,083
44	31	Virginia Tech	ACC	$87,427,526	$90,716,423
45	75	Kansas State	Big 12	$86,081,528	$73,970,354
46	18	Purdue	Big Ten	$84,841,133	$85,709,495
47	34	North Carolina State	ACC	$83,741,572	$86,924,779
48	57	Utah	Pac-12	$83,672,639	$81,620,307
50	56	Iowa State	Big 12	$82,659,447	$82,565,176
51	8	Georgia Tech	ACC	$81,762,024	$84,852,123
52	72	Oregon State	Pac-12	$78,959,875	$82,730,626
53	74	Washington State	Pac-12	$64,294,520	$71,801,820

There isn’t any. It’s our fandom acting like it means something when half of the people that are on here never went to IU.


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[Old Friend]

McRobbie either realizes athletics is the world's window into the University or he doesn't.  He is not responsible for athletics; but he IS responsible for the overall success of Indiana University; and without visibility, Indiana becomes nothing more than an academic institution chasing east coast money, losing a generation of fans, and living in the past.  Success will come when we catch lightening in a bottle, but not consistently.

As I have said for years, without men's basketball, Duke would be Elon.

[Dalton26]

Please no political stuff guys. Nothing said was bad and most people can act like grown adults, but I’d rather not have to deal with the few that can’t.


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[Hoosierfan2017]

32 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Fred Glass does not determine his overall budget or deliverables. So, if handcuffing someone and expecting excellence is acceptable then you are right. Just because someone isn’t visible in an area doesn’t mean they aren’t involved to any degree. McRobbie is very involved and only cares about donor dollars. Been that way for years. Every renovation Glass has to fight for. The renovations mainly get us back to par with the pack. Not place us with the leaders. That is how business works. IU is a business first. An academic institution second. And an athletic institution distant third in McRobbies eyes.

 

 

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If McRobbie is handcuffing Glass on the budget then that is something that falls under actively hurting athletics. I brought up Crean's recruiting to show that spending isn't the reason why basketball has struggled. We've spent plenty. The problem has been that we haven't been getting our money's worth. I would wager that Archie spent less on the 2018 class than Crean spent because he wasn't chasing recruits all across the country. He focused on the Midwest. 

[lucel15]

Someone on another site and maybe it’s been mentioned here before....or in this thread I forget from all that I’ve read and listened too.....the only thing I have against McRobbie and even it goes to the trustees if I understand how approvals work.....I do not agree with the fact that BTN monies went to academic buildings and on the other hand I would not want academic monies going towards athletic facilities and so on. However, it’s years and years of not actually giving the football team what they need to try to succeed. Whether it is cash and backers for a HC or just an HCs supporting cast. To the whole athletics motto of being one team. The fact is we aren’t one team. Basketball and football are money makers. I do support what Fred has done for the other sports.....the baseball and softball teams needed that upgrade badly. The volleyball and wrestling team needed those upgrades.....as a wrestling coach.....that wrestling facility and facilities for wrestling were worse than some hs facilities.  However you always have to be moving with basketball and football. Someone on another site said screw it and find a donor to build another weight room to accommodate the other facilities and then you give the football team the NEZ. That gives them a top 5 training facility just based on size alone in the country. That alone can help with some of the recruiting battles IU has to get through. To me that’s a pretty easy fix compared to what football can do to stand out on facilities...this ties back to BTN money being pulled from athletics mainly money being invested back into your basketball and football programs. That’s my take. It’s on the checks and balances system that is in place at IU. 

[mdn82]

If McRobbie is handcuffing Glass on the budget then that is something that falls under actively hurting athletics. I brought up Crean's recruiting to show that spending isn't the reason why basketball has struggled. We've spent plenty. The problem has been that we haven't been getting our money's worth. I would wager that Archie spent less on the 2018 class than Crean spent because he wasn't chasing recruits all across the country. He focused on the Midwest. 

What I am saying is $300k for us may be the same as OSU spending $100k. Each university itemizes things differently. Each university is different on ownership of a private jet or how they pay for maintenance/fuel of travel. It may appear on paper our budget is astronomically higher but trying to decipher that from public documents without proper insight to how those things are handled is just fools gold. Some schools are told because whether they are public or private where their money can go. So they become creative on whose budget certain things fall on. Saying we spent a certain amount so it is plenty, is wrong because we don’t have proper context. Also players being paid were not paid from school budgets. So correlating we spent x amount means we should get a return of y is just a crazy exercise in mind ****s. There are no two budgets alike in how things itemized and I can guarantee that.

 

 

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[mdn82]

Someone on another site and maybe it’s been mentioned here before....or in this thread I forget from all that I’ve read and listened too.....the only thing I have against McRobbie and even it goes to the trustees if I understand how approvals work.....I do not agree with the fact that BTN monies went to academic buildings and on the other hand I would not want academic monies going towards athletic facilities and so on. However, it’s years and years of not actually giving the football team what they need to try to succeed. Whether it is cash and backers for a HC or just an HCs supporting cast. To the whole athletics motto of being one team. The fact is we aren’t one team. Basketball and football are money makers. I do support what Fred has done for the other sports.....the baseball and softball teams needed that upgrade badly. The volleyball and wrestling team needed those upgrades.....as a wrestling coach.....that wrestling facility and facilities for wrestling were worse than some hs facilities.  However you always have to be moving with basketball and football. Someone on another site said screw it and find a donor to build another weight room to accommodate the other facilities and then you give the football team the NEZ. That gives them a top 5 training facility just based on size alone in the country. That alone can help with some of the recruiting battles IU has to get through. To me that’s a pretty easy fix compared to what football can do to stand out on facilities...this ties back to BTN money being pulled from athletics mainly money being invested back into your basketball and football programs. That’s my take. It’s on the checks and balances system that is in place at IU. 

It was my understanding the revenue shares are partly tied back into academics as well for bowls, tournaments, etc. That to me is also wrong. You can make a lot of money for making a bowl game. Most years we have one B1G team making the college playoffs plus another 7 or so teams making a bowl game. Thats a lot of money there being shared.


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[Ryno6284]

Dakich was railing on McRobbie yesterday in the first segment on his show.  He was coming at it from a different angle though.  If anyone can find it, I suggest listening to it.  I know a lot on here can't stand him, but I thought he was dead on with that take.

[lucel15]

10 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

It was my understanding the revenue shares are partly tied back into academics as well for bowls, tournaments, etc. That to me is also wrong. You can make a lot of money for making a bowl game. Most years we have one B1G team making the college playoffs plus another 7 or so teams making a bowl game. Thats a lot of money there being shared.


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Yes that is my understanding and I get that part that it’s IUs money as a whole......but also from my understanding and if I read and heard it correctly at the beginning of the year 26.5 million from BTN monies were around....if I remember correctly only a handful of that was left for the athletics to use. To me that’s wrong and not right. There’s tons of east and west coast money that can be donated for the funding of buildings on the academic side.....that can also be said for athletics, but let the athletics use and keep majority of their money that is being made from nationally televised games, BTN, bowls and etc. 

[Alford Bailey]

No incentive to improve football because as a member of the B1G we ride on the backs of a school like OSU .

[Hoosier Guy]

Didn’t realize IU fell that far behind Purdue in academics. Dang. But the problem is obviously both McRobbie and Glass. IU is behind in athletics and academics. Both men are culpable

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

IMO, it's the Board of Trustees you should be railing at.  Either the Board has directly or indirectly given McRobbie the OK for his actions or they've abdicated their responsibilities and buried their collective heads in the sand.

[lucel15]

17 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

No incentive to improve football because as a member of the B1G we ride on the backs of a school like OSU .

You talking as a whole or just $$? Confused by this comment I guess. I don’t think anyone is saying with influx of money takes us from predominantly bad football school to CFP contenders. I think a majority of the IU football fans would just like to see seasons consist of undefeated non conference and getting 3-4 wins in conference play. Consistently averaging 45-48k In fans a game and so on. Nobody is saying we need to be the OSU and Michigan of the east. Because historically that’s probably not possible. But we are asking for a consistent product and a lot of consistent products come from investment and keeping up with competitors. 

[Napleshoosier]

I’ve said it for years on here. McRobbie has ruined this program. He could care less!


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[Walking Boot of Doom]

Which academic rankings are people referring to? Is there a link/source that is considered more legit than others?


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[BtownStrength]

7 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Which academic rankings are people referring to? Is there a link/source that is considered more legit than others?


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I think most people cite US News & World Report when talking about academic rankings. There  are criticisms of this model but it is the most popular and imo fairly accurate. 

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Edited November 30, 2018 by BtownStrength

[Brass Cannon]

7 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Which academic rankings are people referring to? Is there a link/source that is considered more legit than others?


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Well the thing is academic ratings are more BS than the BCS. But they do influence important things like donations. 

And our is horrid compared to Purdue across all the rankings i have seen.