Would Archie Leave For Another School?

[IUrocker]

I know this is REALLY early in his career at IU to be discussing this, but it's been something I've thought about just because I like the guy as a coach so much, and have been aboard the Archie train since the day we hired him. Let's say over the next 4-6 years or so he has a very successful run at IU, bringing us back to where we are SUPPOSED to be. Wouldn't being successful and winning championships here at IU be the pinnacle in his eyes as the ultimate job and have no reason to want to go elsewhere? Let's say a Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky come calling and want him as their coach when their coaches are done and gone...he wouldn't have any reason to want to leave IU, right? I was talking about this with a buddy of mine, and obviously the past decade or so that we've had in MBB has tarnished the way we see IU as being an "elite" program, and may make it easy to say something like "hopefully he doesn't leave for Duke". I'd like to think that if he brings us back to that "elite" level, he would have no desire whatsoever to leave. (this could be a really stupid topic, just wondering if everyone else see's what i mean). Curious to know whether this would  be a case of people thinking “no way he leaves, it’s IU”, or if there’s legitimately a bigger, better college basketball destination once he’s at an elite level here.

[Brass Cannon]

Only if we are stupid and let them poach him. 

If he has already built something here the only reason he would leave is we get stingy or we dont support him  

 

 

[Bailey7878]

I know this is REALLY early in his career at IU to be discussing this, but it's been something I've thought about just because I like the guy as a coach so much, and have been aboard the Archie train since the day we hired him. Let's say over the next 4-6 years or so he has a very successful run at IU, bringing us back to where we are SUPPOSED to be. Wouldn't being successful and winning championships here at IU be the pinnacle in his eyes as the ultimate job and have no reason to want to go elsewhere? Let's say a Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky come calling and want him as their coach when their coaches are done and gone...he wouldn't have any reason to want to leave IU, right? I was talking about this with a buddy of mine, and obviously the past decade or so that we've had has tarnished the way we see IU as being an "elite" program, and may make it easy to say "hopefully he doesn't leave for Duke". I'd like to think that if he brings us back to that "elite" level, he would have no desire whatsoever to leave. (this could be a really stupid topic, just wondering if everyone else see's what i mean). 

It would have to be a duke type job after he got us to a final four minimum. Hes not going to take a lateral move or step down imo.

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[IUrocker]

8 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

It would have to be a duke type job after he got us to a final four minimum. Hes not going to take a lateral move or step down imo.

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See I guess that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Shouldn’t/wouldn’t coaching at IU be considered “a Duke type job?” If he brings IU to a Duke type level, IU would be a special enough destination to be at right? (And I’m trying to say that as unbiased as possible, ha). 

[Magnanimous]

39 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

See I guess that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Shouldn’t/wouldn’t coaching at IU be considered “a Duke type job?” If he brings IU to a Duke type level, IU would be a special enough destination to be at right? (And I’m trying to say that as unbiased as possible, ha). 

By the time he would have gotten IU to the level you're talking about in this scenario, I think both UNC and Duke would have already found their coaching replacements anyway. UCLA may likely be open in the next few years if Alford doesn't improve his March record, but other than the prospect of living in LA that may not even be a top 10 job anymore. I'm not remotely worried about Louisville at this point for the foreseeable future given the circus down there. Kentucky is Kentucky, but who knows when Cal is going to hang it up at this point. IU can outbid Kansas with Big 10 money and the new Fox deal, and within the next 5-10 years conference realignment may leave Kansas out to dry. Too much unpredictability surrounding these programs and the greater college basketball landscape to even rationally think about this.

On top of all this, the one and done rule is likely on its way out as a result of the Adidas scandal. Adam Silver even said as much following it. So there will likely be more parity returning to college basketball in the future, and what separates a top job from a second tier gig will shrink. 

Bottom line, there isn't anything Archie can find elsewhere he doesn't already have at IU. If he's as successful as we hope he will be, the checkbook will open and he won't leave unless for a very personal reason outside of IU's control. He'll have full systems go at that point, so it wouldn't make much sense to start over somewhere he doesn't have the job security or recruiting ties. 

[bleedhoosier]

To me, all that means is the reality of IU no longer being a blue blood. We would just be another school, like Purdue, Iowa, Miami

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[Whoozhers]

Love CAM..... but I must admit ......that loss to Fort Wayne teetered on a contract nullification for me. [emoji15]

GO HOOSIERS!
SLAY THE SPARTANS!


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[Stromboli]

I like the optimism, but there's a well established pecking order. IU is still a very, very good job. Somewhere 5-10. Duke and UNC are very clearly above us. We all know how UNC will behave when Roy retires. Remember he came from Kansas, a fellow top 4 program. And so for UNC to try to poach a coach from another Blueblood is not unprecedented. 

No one knows how Duke will behave. They weren't a Blueblood until K, and now he's paid over $11m. Speculation is they will try to stay in the Duke family. But make no mistake, they can get who they want. 

At this point, Archie isn't worth more than we are paying him. If he takes the Fightin' Phinisees to a Final Four in the next couple years, he'll be in a very strong negotiating position. I'm sure Glass would get him paid. So really it comes down to prestige and other intangibles. Here, I think we stack up well. There's going to be more patience here given what we've been through. We are salt of the earth, basketball loving people, which I think is how Archie self-identifies. And we have serious history, while also giving Archie everything he needs to write his own legacy. He won't be in the shadow of anyone, and has massive resources available. 

Remember, Archie stayed in Dayton for years turning down offers from other schools. He waited for the situation he wanted. He never treated Dayton as a stepping stone the way Holtmann treated Butler. Archie could see that these other opportunities were going to be opening soonish. He took our offer. 

I hope he's our guy for 25 years, becomes synonymous with the program. 

[ALASKA HOOSIER]

In Archie, we trust!

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[ElectricBoogaloo]

IUrocker - who hurt you?

[IUrocker]

4 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

IUrocker - who hurt you?

Haha, huh? 

[Stromboli]

 

16 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

IUrocker - who hurt you?

Lol. Abandonment issues. 

[IUrocker]

Actually now that you mention it, my dog doesn’t seem to love me anymore, and I don’t understand what I’ve done wrong to make him act this way, ha.....honestly I was just curious if Archie sees IU basketball as being a premiere, never wanna leave type of job...(and I think he does). I have tons of of NON IU fans at work that I deal with everyday, who always tell me that IU isn’t what it used to be and there will be bigger, better jobs that Archie would rather have than IU and he took it because it’s obviously a huge step up from Dayton...but I guess it’s the IU fan in me who thinks they are wrong. I remember before we hired him, people always said that Ohio State was his dream job and that he would probably take over for Matta, but we ended up beating them to the punch on that one. If Ohio State and IU were both available to Archie and had his choice, wouldn’t we assume that he’d pick IU just based off blue blood/tradition?  I’m not trying to figure out Archie the man himself, just the overall state and perception of IU basketball. He can go and choose to do what he pleases.

[BGleas]

6 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Only if we are stupid and let them poach him. 

If he has already built something here the only reason he would leave is we get stingy or we dont support him  

 

 

Completely agree. The only reason it would happen would be something like a school offering him $7 million and IU won’t poney up. If Archie has IU rolling, the only reason to leave would be money. 

[GnarlyNormEllenberger]

A few thoughts on this one...

- This is assuming he brings us back to "where we are SUPPOSED to be." I think those parameters need defined. I'm assuming that means going to Final Fours and winning the National Championship... given our history of the heights this program has reached when it is being run successfully. That is a very tall task, BUT the basketball program has the resources to make it attainable. Which leads me to my next point...

- If you're going to Final Fours and winning National Championships at IU, you're reaching the pinnacle of college basketball. You just are. You've made it. I think some people have either forgotten or never experienced what it is like when IU is "on top" of the college basketball world. When IU is championship-caliber, we have the same draw as UK, Kansas, etc. It's a big deal locally and nationally. It moves the meter. That's why IU, for all the struggles we've had in recent years, STILL gets among the most national TV exposure every year. We just got on CBS for the Northwestern game! IU is still a draw for people's interest... especially when it gets going.

- So if Archie has us in Final Fours and winning a national championship on a regular basis, we're reaching the levels of UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke. We would be at that level. Someone used the Roy Williams comparison with how he went from Kansas to UNC. I don't think that's a great example because Williams was an assistant for Dean Smith at UNC for years and even played on the JV team as a student. He had strong Carolina connections... THAT was a big factor. So does Archie have any similar ties with those other schools? I don't think so. He might, but it's not as apparent as it was with Williams. He already turned down his alma mater at NC State. So again, if we're going to Final Fours and winning national championships, he's already reached the pinnacle and created a load of job security at IU. He'd be adored. Would he want to then laterally follow a legend at one of those other four schools?

- Money. Archie is already making a pretty good wage at IU and he hasn't really even done anything. If he starts making Final Fours and winning championships, you'll see his pay rise significantly to the point of being among the highest in college basketball. As in, Top 5 or so. I mean, I suppose UK could come along and offer some absolutely ridiculous number that could sway him, but again... he would still be leaving a top program that he already built. He could leave... but it would be risky.

- My concern of him leaving in that circumstance would be problems with our administration. That could be the impetus. I think that's more likely to happen than being swayed by the allure of Duke. But I don't think that happens, either.

Honestly, I don't know if he'd leave or not. What I do know is that he was very selective on leaving Dayton for a "high-level" job. His whole family said that. Therefore, that leads me to believe there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for him to leave IU after having success here. Maybe for the NBA? Even then, I doubt it because of his college basketball roots. But this is all my opinion.

[LamarCheeks]

Unless there is a feud with the administration or something like that, I don't see a successful men's basketball coach leaving IU for another school. Going to the NBA? Maybe. But not another college program. We have lost a successful baseball coach to another program and if we ever were to have a successful run in football, I could see us losing that coach to another program. But men's basketball? I just don't see it happening. 

[JSHoosier]

In college basketball the name Indiana still moves the needle, still registers.  If we're winning at the level we should expect, then we're in the same breath as pUKe and Kansas and UNC and Duke.  At that point if he left I'd think it'd be money that IU won't match or personal reasons.

We've been at that table before, get there again and he's at one of the heaviest hitters in CBB.  Other college jobs are lateral moves at best, NBA would be an improvement.

[IUrocker]

2 minutes ago, GnarlyTimGarl said:

A few thoughts on this one...

- This is assuming he brings us back to "where we are SUPPOSED to be." I think those parameters need defined. I'm assuming that means going to Final Fours and winning the National Championship... given our history of the heights this program has reached when it is being run successfully. That is a very tall task, BUT the basketball program has the resources to make it attainable. Which leads me to my next point...

- If you're going to Final Fours and winning National Championships at IU, you're reaching the pinnacle of college basketball. You just are. You've made it. I think some people have either forgotten or never experienced what it is like when IU is "on top" of the college basketball world. When IU is championship-caliber, we have the same draw as UK, Kansas, etc. It's a big deal locally and nationally. It moves the meter. That's why IU, for all the struggles we've had in recent years, STILL gets among the most national TV exposure every year. We just got on CBS for the Northwestern game! IU is still a draw for people's interest... especially when it gets going.

- So if Archie has us in Final Fours and winning a national championship on a regular basis, we're reaching the levels of UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke. We would be at that level. Someone used the Roy Williams comparison with how he went from Kansas to UNC. I don't think that's a great example because Williams was an assistant for Dean Smith at UNC for years and even played on the JV team as a student. He had strong Carolina connections... THAT was a big factor. So does Archie have any similar ties with those other schools? I don't think so. He might, but it's not as apparent as it was with Williams. So again, if we're going to Final Fours and winning national championships, he's already reached the pinnacle and created a load of job security at IU. He'd be adored. Would he want to then laterally follow a legend at one of those other four schools?

- Money. Archie is already making a pretty good wage at IU and he hasn't really even done anything. If he starts making Final Fours and winning championships, you'll see his pay rise significantly to the point of being among the highest in college basketball. As in, Top 5 or so. I mean, I suppose UK could come along and offer some absolutely ridiculous number that could sway him, but again... he would still be leaving a top program that he already built. He could leave... but it would be risky.

- My concern of him leaving in that circumstance would be problems with our administration. That could be the impetus. I think that's more likely to happen than being swayed by the allure of Duke. But I don't think that happens, either.

Honestly, I don't know if he'd leave or not. What I do know is that he was very selective on leaving Dayton for a "high-level" job. His whole family said that. Therefore, that leads me to believe there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for him to leave IU after having success here. Maybe for the NBA? Even then, I doubt it because of his college basketball roots. But this is all my opinion.

Great post, and I thank you. I think you hit the nail on the head with what I’m trying to tell my co-workers and other people I’ve had conversations with about IU being an elite job. It’s a place that once you start to succeed and become “elite” again, once other places start knocking on your door for your services, it should be a place that make you say “nope, I’ll pass.”

[Bowhunter]

We were  Duke before they started winning.

[pumpfake]

This is something that I really am not concerned about at all.  Someone mentioned Roy W. leaving Kansas for UNC, neglecting to include that he played his college ball at UNC and that had to be a significant factor.  One good thing for us is that according to rumors Archie wasn't interested in the opening at NC State, so that threat doesn't appear to exist.

I will say that when we hired Archie I did look around at a lot of message boards.  The UK lot were generally amused that we thought we were going to get Donovan or Stevens and had to "settle" for Archie (ignoring that Donovan turned them down before the NBA came calling).  It got me thinking: there will be a number of big openings in the not too distant future.  Williams, Krysthsjkdi, Izzo, (and Cal could bolt at the slightest evidence of impropriety.)  Where are all the "grand slam" coaches going to come from? The two biggest names would still be Stevens and Donovan, but there's no reason to believe they will leave the NBA.  No, I think we may have gotten very fortunate in possibly getting one of the top 3 -available- coaches when we did.  You can bet that at least one of the above mentioned top-5 schools will end up with a coach that doesn't pan out (it happens almost every time a legendary coach retires).