TOM CREAN FIRED

[hoosierpap]

1 minute ago, ziggyiu said:

I like that you noted that football is a different sport from basketball. Thanks for the clarification. 

Interesting that you noted how I noted it was an extreme but you posted anyway. 

Use a basketball coach, the idea is what matters, not whether or not you think OCs/DCs are similar to associate/assistant. Noting that is missing the forest through the trees. 

2

The idea is that the ideas are different. I was, and still am, trying to be kind. Keep forgetting not to provide counter arguments to this thread regardless of the content.

[HoosierAloha]

The idea is that the ideas are different. I was, and still am, trying to be kind. Keep forgetting not to provide counter arguments to this thread regardless of the content.

It's without question you're thoughts and info are much appreciated and respected by anyone who has been here longer than a few days.

What do you think the main problem/solution is? I know you don't think Crean is the answer but is it higher than that? If you were the "GM" running IU basketball what would you do?

[southernindianahoosier]

Has Tom Crean been preaching position-less basketball, or ROLE-less basketball. Can that explain why it looks like Bryant doesn't know what position he is supposed to be playing, and why It looks like Rob Johnson doesn't know his own role on the team (same with Newkirk)... At what point do you realize this strategy doesn't work. Our players need roles... Please fire this man.

[Trish]

We lose Saturday, I think that might be the official time to hit the panic button.

I think we win Saturday though, UI is terrible.


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[HoosierAloha]

We lose Saturday, I think that might be the official time to hit the panic button.

I think we win Saturday though, UI is terrible.


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I think we win Saturday but it's closer than it should be. I guess at this point a win is a win though.

[Uspshoosier]

We lose Saturday, I think that might be the official time to hit the panic button.

I think we win Saturday though, UI is terrible.

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We must might know they are terrible but numbers wise if we win it will be against a top 30 rpi team (30)

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[Uwe Robb]

We lose Saturday, I think that might be the official time to hit the panic button.

I think we win Saturday though, UI is terrible.


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So is/was Nebraska


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[hoosierpap]

34 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It's without question you're thoughts and info are much appreciated and respected by anyone who has been here longer than a few days.

What do you think the main problem/solution is? I know you don't think Crean is the answer but is it higher than that? If you were the "GM" running IU basketball what would you do?

 

Higher in what regard? If I'm the AD which I think is like the GM then no, I don't really think he is the issue. I think there is an illusion that Crean and Glass are tied at the hip but the Crean situation has given Glass the single most headaches since taking the job, inherently to some degree. If I'm running IU, and I have to be honest, I wait until I find something I'm sure of- or this gets seriously bad. Glass is done if he misses on all these "could be the next thing" coaches. Indiana is a different level so simply equating it to "he did well at this lower school equals to exponential success at bigger school" is flawed, imo. There are VERY few coaches who are elite and not one is available. No one is sure-fire that is moving. Instability is a bad thing for a program. You can throw out an example where it worked to keep moving on but it can sink a program in recruiting and in hiring.

This 3 game stretch has been bad for Crean and the combination of his history has people fired up, I really do get and identify with that...but it isn't like what you see here is the typical "hoosier fan" which is part of it. Glass is seeing this type of fan plenty, but he's also seeing the more casual fan who knows IU  "won the big ten, has some good kids, and ran into a buzz saw in Carolina last year but were destined for more if not." 

I'm not saying I agree. As you noted, I know he isn't the guy for the job. But if he makes the move it needs to be the right one or thats about it for him because of the weight of basketball at Indiana. Anyone chalking this up simply to "he isn't good enough, go find another" isn't living in reality, imo. I'm sorry. I get I'm going to hear that's a loser's mentality to accept "mediocrity" until the sure-fire thing comes along...again, ignoring the reality. Glass is paid very well. The Indiana basketball program generates record money which makes the admin happy. Does everyone want to see IU win championships, sure. Do the AD, donors, admin and casual fans consider other things for other reasons...yeah.

Label me with the loser's mentality if you want. I want better, but I get it is all I'm saying.

[HoosierAloha]

Higher in what regard? If I'm the AD which I think is like the GM then no, I don't really think he is the issue. I think there is an illusion that Crean and Glass are tied at the hip but the Crean situation has given Glass the single most headaches since taking the job, inherently to some degree. If I'm running IU, and I have to be honest, I wait until I find something I'm sure of- or this gets seriously bad. Glass is done if he misses on all these "could be the next thing" coaches. Indiana is a different level so simply equating it to "he did well at this lower school equals to exponential success at bigger school" is flawed, imo. There are VERY few coaches who are elite and not one is available. No one is sure-fire that is moving. Instability is a bad thing for a program. You can throw out an example where it worked to keep moving on but it can sink a program in recruiting and in hiring.

This 3 game stretch has been bad for Crean and the combination of his history has people fired up, I really do get and identify with that...but it isn't like what you see here is the typical "hoosier fan" which is part of it. Glass is seeing this type of fan plenty, but he's also seeing the more casual fan who knows IU  "won the big ten, has some good kids, and ran into a buzz saw in Carolina last year but were destined for more if not." 

I'm not saying I agree. As you noted, I know he isn't the guy for the job. But if he makes the move it needs to be the right one or thats about it for him because of the weight of basketball at Indiana. Anyone chalking this up simply to "he isn't good enough, go find another" isn't living in reality, imo. I'm sorry. I get I'm going to hear that's a loser's mentality to accept "mediocrity" until the sure-fire thing comes along...again, ignoring the reality. Glass is paid very well. The Indiana basketball program generates record money which makes the admin happy. Does everyone want to see IU win championships, sure. Do the AD, donors, admin and casual fans consider other things for other reasons...yeah.

Label me with the loser's mentality if you want. I want better, but I get it is all I'm saying.

How long do you let it go before you make a change? Where is the breaking point?

I get that you can't fire a coach in this situation without a home run hire ready. There has to be a scenario that he's let go before an elite coach is available though. Is that donations? Attendance? Boosters forcing Glass' hand?

[hoosierpap]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

How long do you let it go before you make a change? Where is the breaking point?

I get that you can't fire a coach in this situation without a home run hire ready. There has to be a scenario that he's let go before an elite coach is available though. Is that donations? Attendance? Boosters forcing Glass' hand?

 

I mean, theoretically it could start at the bottom I'd imagine. Fan perception influences attendance, influences boosters, influences admin, influences AD. (or visa-versa on the last two)

But there have been plenty of examples where a few boosters get fed up- and that group can be tight- and it goes from there... I don't have an accurate answer on how that would go at IU. I know I can't honestly say where those boosters are at now in supporting Crean but I certainly heard about it in 13-14, 14-15. So that says something

[southernindianahoosier]

Higher in what regard? If I'm the AD which I think is like the GM then no, I don't really think he is the issue. I think there is an illusion that Crean and Glass are tied at the hip but the Crean situation has given Glass the single most headaches since taking the job, inherently to some degree. If I'm running IU, and I have to be honest, I wait until I find something I'm sure of- or this gets seriously bad. Glass is done if he misses on all these "could be the next thing" coaches. Indiana is a different level so simply equating it to "he did well at this lower school equals to exponential success at bigger school" is flawed, imo. There are VERY few coaches who are elite and not one is available. No one is sure-fire that is moving. Instability is a bad thing for a program. You can throw out an example where it worked to keep moving on but it can sink a program in recruiting and in hiring.

This 3 game stretch has been bad for Crean and the combination of his history has people fired up, I really do get and identify with that...but it isn't like what you see here is the typical "hoosier fan" which is part of it. Glass is seeing this type of fan plenty, but he's also seeing the more casual fan who knows IU  "won the big ten, has some good kids, and ran into a buzz saw in Carolina last year but were destined for more if not." 

I'm not saying I agree. As you noted, I know he isn't the guy for the job. But if he makes the move it needs to be the right one or thats about it for him because of the weight of basketball at Indiana. Anyone chalking this up simply to "he isn't good enough, go find another" isn't living in reality, imo. I'm sorry. I get I'm going to hear that's a loser's mentality to accept "mediocrity" until the sure-fire thing comes along...again, ignoring the reality. Glass is paid very well. The Indiana basketball program generates record money which makes the admin happy. Does everyone want to see IU win championships, sure. Do the AD, donors, admin and casual fans consider other things for other reasons...yeah.

Label me with the loser's mentality if you want. I want better, but I get it is all I'm saying.

Maybe I just don't understand how the entire coach-hiring process works, but waiting and trying to time the perfect hire seems like a bad idea IMO... How do we know that certain coaches would come to IU? Is it through back channels? Have agents of coaches reached out to IU already? Why not just fire Crean at the end of this year and go full throttle towards the coach you want (Stevens), just like Michigan did with Harbaugh. If that doesn't work, at least every college/NBA coach knows about the head coach opening and IU can be completely transparent on the fact that we are taking resumes.

[ziggyiu]

56 minutes ago, hoosierpap said:

The idea is that the ideas are different. I was, and still am, trying to be kind. Keep forgetting not to provide counter arguments to this thread regardless of the content.

I'm curious what's the different idea? I'm confused by that statement. 

I'm only noting that a trait of many successful coaches is surrounding themselves with other successful coaches. 

Do you disagree with that idea? 

[hoosierpap]

Just now, southernindianahoosier said:

Maybe I just don't understand how the entire coach-hiring process works, but waiting and trying to time the perfect hire seems like a bad idea IMO... How do we know that certain coaches would come to IU? Is it through back channels? Have agents of coaches reached out to IU already? Why not just fire Crean at the end of this year and go full throttle towards the coach you want (Stevens), just like Michigan did with Harbaugh. If that doesn't work, at least every college/NBA coach knows about the head coach opening and IU can be completely transparent on the fact that we are taking resumes.

 

Harbaugh was hardly back channels. That end had been coming as him and the front office disagreed to a massive degree. Those situations are very different.

It's just my opinion that instability at this level can really lead to problems but that's up for debate. Recruiting and hiring.

Does IU operate through back channels, idk honestly but I'd be hard pressed to believe they don't. I know two years ago they had a booster backcourt at a Celtics game but pretty hard to say what that meant, honestly. Ties through Indianapolis and businesss could be pretty innocent.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Harbaugh was hardly back channels. That end had been coming as him and the front office disagreed to a massive degree. Those situations are very different.

It's just my opinion that instability at this level can really lead to problems but that's up for debate. Recruiting and hiring.

Does IU operate through back channels, idk honestly but I'd be hard pressed to believe they don't. I know two years ago they had a booster backcourt at a Celtics game but pretty hard to say what that meant, honestly. Ties through Indianapolis and businesss could be pretty innocent.

I heard about some back channel surfing in Boston that year as well.

Also heard a potential REALLY high salary being a possibility that season. Butler connections.


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[recker222000]

Maybe I just don't understand how the entire coach-hiring process works, but waiting and trying to time the perfect hire seems like a bad idea IMO... How do we know that certain coaches would come to IU? Is it through back channels? Have agents of coaches reached out to IU already? Why not just fire Crean at the end of this year and go full throttle towards the coach you want (Stevens), just like Michigan did with Harbaugh. If that doesn't work, at least every college/NBA coach knows about the head coach opening and IU can be completely transparent on the fact that we are taking resumes.

I agree end this now

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[WayneFleekHoosier]

I heard about some back channel surfing in Boston that year as well.

Also heard a potential REALLY high salary being a possibility that season. Butler connections.

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Through Ronald Nored.

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[Hoosierfan2017]

If Crean unleashed something like this on our guys I think our season would turn around immediately. 

 

[HoosierRob]

The janitor on twitter that seems to be In the know thinks he survives this season. Pretty much because he breaks no rules and has deep ties to the right people.

[Whoozhers]

Anybody have Butler's Coach phone #? If so, please forward to Fred G.
Thank you,
Hoosier Nation!


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[southsidehoosier]

I'll be interested to watch Holtman the rest of the season, especially come tourney time.


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