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Sampson also had a whole lot more to work with (3 NBA players and another kid who was a Parade All American.  Miller did not have that his first season) and wasn't dealing with a roster full of players trained and recruited to play a completely different system.  I don't think it's as simple as saying "x Coach" should or could have success quickly.   Depends on the coach, the roster, the leadership, health, etc.    It's a complex formula in Indiana's case, and I still say it's headed in a good direction and should stay there.  

For what’s its worth, I know a HS teammate of Eric Gordon that knows for a fact he was getting some extra benefits. Which the way things are I’m fine with. I don’t want to be a Kentucky or Duke, but Sampson plays the game and he wins. Every top player Archie has gone after outside of Indiana has gone to a school known to play the game. No matter who our coach is until our admin loosens the reigns a little I think we’re going to continue to struggle against the perennials.


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Sampson also had a whole lot more to work with (3 NBA players and another kid who was a Parade All American.  Miller did not have that his first season) and wasn't dealing with a roster full of players trained and recruited to play a completely different system.  I don't think it's as simple as saying "x Coach" should or could have success quickly.   Depends on the coach, the roster, the leadership, health, etc.    It's a complex formula in Indiana's case, and I still say it's headed in a good direction and should stay there.  

Just looked back at Davis’ last team to see who he left Sampson with and there weren’t any players that were real NBA guys. DJ white might have spent a little time there but he didn’t last long.

Who are you referring to that Sampson had in his first season in terms of nba players (3)?




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1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:


Just looked back at Davis’ last team to see who he left Sampson with and there weren’t any players that were real NBA guys. DJ white might have spent a little time there but he didn’t last long.

Who are you referring to that Sampson had in his first season in terms of nba players (3)?




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DJ White, Eric Gordon (my mistake....he was year 2), and Jordan Crawford (he may have been year 2 as well....they all run together) were all NBA players.  

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DJ White, Eric Gordon (my mistake....he was year 2), and Jordan Crawford (he may have been year 2 as well....they all run together) were all NBA players.  

Sampson had his faults but he did bring in some good pieces right away and had more on the way before it all fell apart.

The cupboard wasn’t bare when he got there but he gave it a quick boost pretty quickly


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Somewhere in this discussion is the fact that Benson lobbied for Mike Davis after his interim year with a mic in his hand on the floor of Assembly Hall.  I remember it well.  So thanks when it comes to Benny analyzing IU basketball at this point in time.  He didn't do it well then so he ain't no expert now.

With all that being said.  Mike has proven to be a winner at subsequent stops, albeit not IU caliber programs.  IU compounded their first mistake with another by hiring Sampson and the baggage he brought with him.  But he was/is a winner at big time programs and will probably get another marquis gig in the future.

As to who we should have got after Davis' 1st year?  We had all kinds of possibilities to choose from.

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17 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

This is the hardest part of being an IU basketball fan. We always have to pay a price for any brush with success. The Final 4 run was glorious, but it got us 4 more years of Davis and dismal, boring failure. We get a Final 4 caliber team with Sampson, then have to blow it up because he couldn't put his phone away and that resulted in three godawful seasons of more failure to historic proportions. We finally pull ourselves out of that smoldering crater and get a couple fun seasons, then came crashing down when everyone left. Instead of firing Crean in 2015, we keep him around, enjoy a Big Ten title (which is still one of my favorite teams) and some other epic wins, then the wheels inevitably come off yet again. 

 

If Archie Miller ever gets us winning at a high level, I fully expect the FBI probe to somehow resurrect and implicate him, then the adventure begins again. The life of a 21st century IU basketball fan. 

Its almost like we have PTSD with Firing coaches after the Knight debacle and now we're scared to fire anyone at the right time. Fred and the administration need to read a self help book on leaving toxic relationships. 

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Its almost like we have PTSD with Firing coaches after the Knight debacle and now we're scared to fire anyone at the right time. Fred and the administration need to read a self help book on leaving toxic relationships. 


Yeah, Fred isn’t doing that on his way out the door. His successor gets to inherit that yoke. And if we aren’t dancing this year you can bet the head coaching position will be high on the list of interview questions.


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5 hours ago, Rico said:

Somewhere in this discussion is the fact that Benson lobbied for Mike Davis after his interim year with a mic in his hand on the floor of Assembly Hall.  I remember it well.  So thanks when it comes to Benny analyzing IU basketball at this point in time.  He didn't do it well then so he ain't no expert now.

With all that being said.  Mike has proven to be a winner at subsequent stops, albeit not IU caliber programs.  IU compounded their first mistake with another by hiring Sampson and the baggage he brought with him.  But he was/is a winner at big time programs and will probably get another marquis gig in the future.

As to who we should have got after Davis' 1st year?  We had all kinds of possibilities to choose from.

Depending on who you believe (and I still don't know for sure, but have my suspicion), John Belein or Kevin Stallings were literally on an airplane to come to Bloomington.  Only remaining step was signing a contract to be the coach.   But...Adam Herbert rejected that choice, demanding that IU hire a minority to replace Mike Davis; and thinking Kelvin Sampson was African American - true story - accepted and in fact recommended him as the alternative.   100% accurate story and verified.   Adam Herbert.  The Velvet Fog.

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10 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Depending on who you believe (and I still don't know for sure, but have my suspicion), John Belein or Kevin Stallings were literally on an airplane to come to Bloomington.  Only remaining step was signing a contract to be the coach.   But...Adam Herbert rejected that choice, demanding that IU hire a minority to replace Mike Davis; and thinking Kelvin Sampson was African American - true story - accepted and in fact recommended him as the alternative.   100% accurate story and verified.   Adam Herbert.  The Velvet Fog.

I have heard the story about Herbert demanding we hire Sampson. I didn't realize he thought Kelvin was black. He is Native American (Lumbee Indian), so I guess he would've satisfied Herbert's demand for a minority ... I would've been fine with Beilein, but I would've wanted no part of Stallings. First, he hadn't really accomplished anything. Second, he's a Purdue guy. Man, I'm just not comfortable with a Purdue person coaching us (although Moren so far as worked out ... but Versyp was a huge mistake). I do remember hearing Stallings' name bandied about after Davis resigned. If memory serves, the main connection was that Greenspan (our AD at the time) had hired him at Illinois State ...  Sampson is a good coach, but our team had somewhat of a thuggish image under him. I remember seeing a story that with the exception of Eric Gordon and D.J. White, pretty much everyone on the team was smoking a lot of dope. And this is what always bugged me about Kelvin: When he took the job, he was told to stop the extra texting and phone calls -- whatever it was that got him in trouble at Oklahoma. And he didn't stop! I realize that what he got busted for is no longer a violation and it almost seemed a silly one back then, but the reality is -- it was a violation. And he kept doing it -- when he was told not to. 

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Diversity hire or not, Sampson was a good hire. He's a very good coach. We likely would've hung up another banner by now, or at least made it back to the final four, if he hadn't been fired. 

Indiana should have just denied, denied, denied and we would have been fine.


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Probably the most important week of Archie's IU career thus far. Two home games against two top 20 teams. If IU wants to show that they belong in the B1G race, they win these two. I expect 1-1 but I could see 2-0 just like I could see 0-2. This will tell us a lot about this team. 

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2 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Probably the most important week of Archie's IU career thus far. Two home games against two top 20 teams. If IU wants to show that they belong in the B1G race, they win these two. I expect 1-1 but I could see 2-0 just like I could see 0-2. This will tell us a lot about this team. 

Agreed. This team has done what it has needed to do to this point to keep it afloat. The next month and half is where it gets real and could define Archie's career here. I am still waiting until the end of the year to really have an opinion on Archie as a coach. I want him to succeed so bad and still have confidence he will, but everyone knows there are definitely concerns. 

13 games left. 7 at home. 6 on the road. Have to get 5 wins total to feel comfortable about the tournament. I projected 19-12 and still feel that is what will happen. 

But yes I agree, this week and really the next 4 are the toughest stretch left of this brutal schedule. Here is to hoping they at least split and go 2-2 heading into Purdue at home. 

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1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


Indiana should have just denied, denied, denied and we would have been fine.


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Hmmmm, Sampson got in trouble for the same damn thing at OU and then we hired him.

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24 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’m overconfident about homes games and underconfident about road games.

I think we have a very reasonable chance to win both these games. And we kinda need to, because I can’t see us “getting hot” and beating a good team on the road.


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I’m the opposite.

IMO we will without a doubt steal at least one on the road, and without a doubt will dump one or two at home.

if we can win one out of two this week we are looking really good.

 

 

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I’m the opposite.
IMO we will without a doubt steal at least one on the road, and without a doubt will dump one or two at home.
if we can win one out of two this week we are looking really good.
 
 

If we have to drop one preferably Maryland, just so I can be there to see us send Izzo home with another L


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I’m overconfident about homes games and underconfident about road games.

I think we have a very reasonable chance to win both these games. And we kinda need to, because I can’t see us “getting hot” and beating a good team on the road.


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Yeah I can’t see another road win. But hey I didn’t see us beating MSU on the road last year either.


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