Weak Indiana HS Senior Class

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,935]

...............But Purdue got the best 2 players in Swanigan and Cline. Cline can really shoot it.

Anyway, this is news worthy

@IndyStarSports: Getting win No. 13 in a row over Kentucky took some doing for the boys @indallstars. http://t.co/lqMGr1uB4Y http://t.co/iqLqUDMuE9

[Old Friend 8,389]

Your first line is an important one.  For Indiana to succeed consistently, unless we can suddenly become Duke and get whoever we want, we have to do better in-state.  Cline and Swanigan are both very good.   And there are others.    It's important to have kids who understand why it's important to beat Purdue, just like they always have kids who want nothing more than to beat Indiana....and they play like it.   It's important for kids to understand the priority of winning the Big Ten and who don't play every game like "it's just another game."   That's how we look to me....and sometimes, it's good enough to win.   The last 2 seasons?   We have a losing record in conference; and it's not good enough.

 

I'm not saying that we only need kids from Indiana or even the states surrounding Indiana, but when you have Noah Vonleh on your team, and he plays like he doesn't give a damn (endemic to east coast kids, in my humble opinion), you're not going to win rivalry or conference road games - unless you have a roster full of talent; but even then, that's not a roster I'm interested in rooting for.   You're going to have a losing record against Northwestern.   There's a lack of intensity with Indiana.   Getting kids from the east coast brings talent, but does it bring toughness?  Does it bring basketball IQ?  Everybody loves the way Hartman plays, right?   Everybody loves Yogi's heart.  Loved the way Zeller played.  Same with Hulls.  Coverdale.  Fife.  Etc.   Other than AJ Moye, who - from a state outside Indiana and the donut states - has truly sold out for IU in the last 15 years?  Maybe a handful..but I can't name many.   Hornsby did.  Sheehey to some extent, but he was far better when he had great talent around him.   When it was time for him to lead as a senior, even when he had one of the top point guards in the country and a lottery pick big man, his team was very weak.   Watford?  Eh...sort of.   Not much effort on defense.  

 

Ryan Cline will be one of those guys we wish we had.  

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Your first line is an important one. For Indiana to succeed consistently, unless we can suddenly become Duke and get whoever we want, we have to do better in-state. Cline and Swanigan are both very good. And there are others. It's important to have kids who understand why it's important to beat Purdue, just like they always have kids who want nothing more than to beat Indiana....and they play like it. It's important for kids to understand the priority of winning the Big Ten and who don't play every game like "it's just another game." That's how we look to me....and sometimes, it's good enough to win. The last 2 seasons? We have a losing record in conference; and it's not good enough.

I'm not saying that we only need kids from Indiana or even the states surrounding Indiana, but when you have Noah Vonleh on your team, and he plays like he doesn't give a damn (endemic to east coast kids, in my humble opinion), you're not going to win rivalry or conference road games - unless you have a roster full of talent; but even then, that's not a roster I'm interested in rooting for. You're going to have a losing record against Northwestern. There's a lack of intensity with Indiana. Getting kids from the east coast brings talent, but does it bring toughness? Does it bring basketball IQ? Everybody loves the way Hartman plays, right? Everybody loves Yogi's heart. Loved the way Zeller played. Same with Hulls. Coverdale. Fife. Etc. Other than AJ Moye, who - from a state outside Indiana and the donut states - has truly sold out for IU in the last 15 years? Maybe a handful..but I can't name many. Hornsby did. Sheehey to some extent, but he was far better when he had great talent around him. When it was time for him to lead as a senior, even when he had one of the top point guards in the country and a lottery pick big man, his team was very weak. Watford? Eh...sort of. Not much effort on defense.

Ryan Cline will be one of those guys we wish we had.

Not giving a damn is not a trait endemic in East Coast kids.

Where was Hollowell from? Hanner?

And is Vonleh really the best example of not giving a damn? The kid was a double double machine and fought hard in the post. He gave up on the team at the very end of a disappointing season to protect his draft stock. I don't respect him for that, but he fought during the offseason (put on 25 pounds of muscle during the summer) and during the season.

[Banksyrules 4,517]

Holt is an east coast kid. He's gives a dam.

[Crimson and Cream 5,777]

Cline is going to be a thorn in our side for 4 years

[FKfootball 1,046]

This is rediculous. Oladipo sold out for IU. Thomas Bryant will. Rob Johnson has. The fact is, that In-State kids dont love IU like we do. IU isn't "sexy" right now. I hope Crean gets it all on track but he's a lame duck right now.

[iubirdman 98]

The 2 kids who seemed to understand what being a Hoosier were over the last 15 years to me were Vic and AJ Moye.  One from the east coast and one from Georgia.

[Josh 12,557]

Please quit with your ridiculous stereotypes gocolts.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Your first line is an important one.  For Indiana to succeed consistently, unless we can suddenly become Duke and get whoever we want, we have to do better in-state.  Cline and Swanigan are both very good.   And there are others.    It's important to have kids who understand why it's important to beat Purdue, just like they always have kids who want nothing more than to beat Indiana....and they play like it.   It's important for kids to understand the priority of winning the Big Ten and who don't play every game like "it's just another game."   That's how we look to me....and sometimes, it's good enough to win.   The last 2 seasons?   We have a losing record in conference; and it's not good enough.

 

I'm not saying that we only need kids from Indiana or even the states surrounding Indiana, but when you have Noah Vonleh on your team, and he plays like he doesn't give a damn (endemic to east coast kids, in my humble opinion), you're not going to win rivalry or conference road games - unless you have a roster full of talent; but even then, that's not a roster I'm interested in rooting for.   You're going to have a losing record against Northwestern.   There's a lack of intensity with Indiana.   Getting kids from the east coast brings talent, but does it bring toughness?  Does it bring basketball IQ?  Everybody loves the way Hartman plays, right?   Everybody loves Yogi's heart.  Loved the way Zeller played.  Same with Hulls.  Coverdale.  Fife.  Etc.   Other than AJ Moye, who - from a state outside Indiana and the donut states - has truly sold out for IU in the last 15 years?  Maybe a handful..but I can't name many.   Hornsby did.  Sheehey to some extent, but he was far better when he had great talent around him.   When it was time for him to lead as a senior, even when he had one of the top point guards in the country and a lottery pick big man, his team was very weak.   Watford?  Eh...sort of.   Not much effort on defense.  

 

Ryan Cline will be one of those guys we wish we had.  

I believe I'd take Thomas Bryant over Swanigan and Shooting guard wasn't a position of need, as much as others.

 

And, if Cline isn't, will you remember that you said this?

[FindEndNow 198]

This is rediculous. Oladipo sold out for IU. Thomas Bryant will. Rob Johnson has. The fact is, that In-State kids dont love IU like we do. IU isn't "sexy" right now. I hope Crean gets it all on track but he's a lame duck right now.

Robert Johnson has? When? And we have no idea what Bryant will do. We might have to give him the nickname Snuggles or Charmin. No one on the team right now has went all out for the name on the front except for maybe Yogi.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Not many these days seem to go all out for anyone.

[TheWatShot 13,641]

My biggest fear is that we'll hold on to Crean for a year or two longer than we should, and Purdue is going to take advantage of his lame duck status and start raking in the '16 and '17 kids that we want. 

 

 

Don't think Painter isn't letting these kids know about Crean's declining popularity. 

[FindEndNow 198]

Not many these days seem to go all out for anyone.

It's about the name on the back. Which there are no names on the back of an Indiana jersey. Though personally I think it is absolutely stupid not to.

[Old Friend 8,389]

This is rediculous. Oladipo sold out for IU. Thomas Bryant will. Rob Johnson has. The fact is, that In-State kids dont love IU like we do. IU isn't "sexy" right now. I hope Crean gets it all on track but he's a lame duck right now.

Yeah..Oladipo was.   Forgot him.   That's my fault, and you're right.   But I notice you didn't acknowledge the other examples out there....just the one you felt was "ridiculous."   Selective examples are just that.    Look at the whole picture.  And yes, I will remember I said what I did about Cline if you (HoosierHoops1) remember if he is.

 

I just wonder why 3 decades of evidence is so absolutely irrelevant to some of you.  Why do we need to shotgun recruits from all over the place?   Why doesn't it matter (especially with the 0-3 record against Purdue in Crean's 6th and 7th seasons) that kids truly understand where they are?  Why doesn't regional knowledge matter?   Why is Bryant better than Swanigan?  Because he's coming to IU?    Swanigan was also a McD's all american, had 40 and 19 in the semi state and won the 4A state titie.  Basically averaged 22 and 14 in high school...better numbers than Bryant.   So...why?   I don't think you have any basis for that comment other than to be critical of the other side of the argument.

 

Indiana needs to get Mr. Basketball.   Plain and simple.  Especially if Purdue's becoming a player.  Crean's not prioritized Indiana, and is 0-3 in the last 2 seasons against Purdue...who HAS prioritized in-state kids whether they were highly ranked or not.    Indiana just offered a scholarship to a shooting guard from Reading, PA.   Why??   There aren't shooting guards from Indiana?  Serioulsy?

 

You guys can criticize me all you want.  You can tell me how wrong I am all you want.   The bottom line is there's 30 years of evidence on my side that says if you simply focus on Indiana and the donut states you can build champions and win consistently.   So far, with Crean's way, there is no such evidence, and it's much more of a gamble.   We're shooting with a shotgun.  Minimal damage and very scattered.   I'd rather use a rifle or a laser and focus.   

 

To me, Crean tries to out-think the room and prove he's smarter than everyone else looking for the next Oladipo (again, my fault....he's clearly the poster child).   He makes things too complicated and I think that contributes in large part to the roster turnover.   Ridiculous?   Evidence shows otherwise.

[hoosierbgh 1,264]

This silly argument just won't die and it seems to get sillier every time it reappears. 

 

Any coach who relies on hard and fast rules such as "You have to get Indiana's Mr. Basketball" or "Indiana players are better" instead of evaluating players and team needs on a case by case basis, is at best a lazy thinker and at worst a complete fool. In either case that coach has no place anywhere near a major college basketball program. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Yeah..Oladipo was. Forgot him. That's my fault, and you're right. But I notice you didn't acknowledge the other examples out there....just the one you felt was "ridiculous." Selective examples are just that. Look at the whole picture. And yes, I will remember I said what I did about Cline if you (HoosierHoops1) remember if he is.

I just wonder why 3 decades of evidence is so absolutely irrelevant to some of you. Why do we need to shotgun recruits from all over the place? Why doesn't it matter (especially with the 0-3 record against Purdue in Crean's 6th and 7th seasons) that kids truly understand where they are? Why doesn't regional knowledge matter? Why is Bryant better than Swanigan? Because he's coming to IU? Swanigan was also a McD's all american, had 40 and 19 in the semi state and won the 4A state titie. Basically averaged 22 and 14 in high school...better numbers than Bryant. So...why? I don't think you have any basis for that comment other than to be critical of the other side of the argument.

Indiana needs to get Mr. Basketball. Plain and simple. Especially if Purdue's becoming a player. Crean's not prioritized Indiana, and is 0-3 in the last 2 seasons against Purdue...who HAS prioritized in-state kids whether they were highly ranked or not. Indiana just offered a scholarship to a shooting guard from Reading, PA. Why?? There aren't shooting guards from Indiana? Serioulsy?

You guys can criticize me all you want. You can tell me how wrong I am all you want. The bottom line is there's 30 years of evidence on my side that says if you simply focus on Indiana and the donut states you can build champions and win consistently. So far, with Crean's way, there is no such evidence, and it's much more of a gamble. We're shooting with a shotgun. Minimal damage and very scattered. I'd rather use a rifle or a laser and focus.

To me, Crean tries to out-think the room and prove he's smarter than everyone else looking for the next Oladipo (again, my fault....he's clearly the poster child). He makes things too complicated and I think that contributes in large part to the roster turnover. Ridiculous? Evidence shows otherwise.

You realize that Purdue recruits kids from outside Indiana, right? And if you have 3 decades of evidence that Indiana kids put out more for the program the East Coast kids, then provide the evidence. You can speak in generalities and state opinions, but you don't have facts to support your claims. Indiana is a basketball Mecca, no denying that. But there are plenty of kids outside of Indiana who grow up Hoosiers and play with the same intelligence, passion, and talent.

[cchoneycut 53]

Maybe instead of just recruiting all Indiana kids lets just make them a bigger priority. So I'm not saying lets only recruit in Indiana, but let's make our high school basketball programs feel like they have a chance at IU, so when we get a loaded class (class of '16/'17) we can be ahead of the game(which we are with that class). I'm fine with bringing in the East coast kids and what not, but maybe just a bit more PRIORITY on our Midwestern boys.

[iubirdman 98]

Our top priority should be the best players that fit our needs and get what it meant to play at IU.  I could care less if they came from Indiana, neighboring states, Alaska or Germany.

[FindEndNow 198]

Our top priority should be the best players that fit our needs and get what it meant to play at IU. I could care less if they came from Indiana, neighboring states, Alaska or Germany.

Well what does it mean to play for IU. Like right now. Not in 1985.

[Beowulf50 816]

It's about the name on the back. Which there are no madness on the ball of an Indiana jersey. Though personally I think it is absolutely stupid not to.

It's about team first! Perfect example UK last year! The perfect class but no championship.