Stan and Troy

[coonhounds 8,794]

Sure. It can make you angry. But, is anger an excuse to spout vileness? Like I said, there's a difference between being critical and being nasty. You can tell your co-worker that you don't think his latest work was up to par or that he messed up something, but going back and talking about what an idiot he is isn't necessary. I don't care if people say they shouldn't be on the team, but seriously read through this thread and try and imagine saying it about anyone else and see if you don't get a little uneasy. And I don't care what people say, this 100% affects recruiting. Who the hell would ever want to play for this team and these fans?

Are there any other sources on that story? Because, I mean, until Uwe shows something to make us believe he's an insider it's hard to take. Especially considering people were jumping down his throat and saying he wasn't an IU fan and suspecting he was a Kentucky fan in other threads, everyone sure seems ready to believe him when the pitchforks are out and it fits their narrative.

in uwe defense he said he recently started working with fischers dad and the basketball giving to his grandpa story just doesn't seem made up to me but who knows.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

in uwe defense he said he recently started working with fischers dad and the basketball giving to his grandpa story just doesn't seem made up to me but who knows.

It doesn't seem made up to me either. And the explanation is decent. That doesn't mean I'm prepared to take it as gospel either at this point. 

We actually could really use a system to verify (privately) with admins if there's a possibility that we'll have inside information from a source like that so that it could be easier for the rest of us. I mean, we all know BB4IU is a trustworthy insider, but if he just showed up today and started saying his usual stuff would it be reasonable of us to fully believe him?

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

Sure. It can make you angry. But, is anger an excuse to spout vileness? Like I said, there's a difference between being critical and being nasty. You can tell your co-worker that you don't think his latest work was up to par or that he messed up something, but going back and talking about what an idiot he is isn't necessary. I don't care if people say they shouldn't be on the team, but seriously read through this thread and try and imagine saying it about anyone else and see if you don't get a little uneasy. And I don't care what people say, this 100% affects recruiting. Who the hell would ever want to play for this team and these fans?

Are there any other sources on that story? Because, I mean, until Uwe shows something to make us believe he's an insider it's hard to take. Especially considering people were jumping down his throat and saying he wasn't an IU fan and suspecting he was a Kentucky fan in other threads, everyone sure seems ready to believe him when the pitchforks are out and it fits their narrative. 

You don't have to believe anything I say. Nobody does. Nor do I have prove anything to you to voice my opinion. I don't believe I called him any names other than a dope smoker or pot head, but I do believe there is sufficient evidence available to prove that much is true.

[drewheck 749]

I just know there has been huge controversy in the ability for pee tests for athletes to show anything of value. But, you're probably right. They're almost certainly just administered by the team though the NCAA might care around competition time. Pee tests are 100% useless for the only drugs I care about in college sports, performance enhancers. You can guzzle HGH and pass your pee tests. It only catches, what? Marijuana use? There's a reason the NFL is slowly reforming their marijuana use policies as legalization spreads in the US. I know Indiana is certainly one of the least tolerant places in the country for it, but come on. I care about as much if our players are smoking weed as I do if they're drinking. The only reason I might care is because it's breaking the rules. But to me at least, it's on the exact same level as Yogi's fake ID.

The fake Id thing for yogi pissed me off the most he had maybe a week before he turned 21 I'm not condoning the underage drinking but its going to happen and does everywhere show me a school that says nobody on their team parties or drinks or smokes and I'll show you a liar the ignorance of the whole thing don't go out to a bar with a fake id when you are the most noticeable person on campus, do what everyone else does and pregame at a frat house or something. The drug tests are a whole other story they knew all along they would get tested and they made a conscious decision to smoke anyway its not oh I thought it was hookah that story is a complete crock to get keep mom off his ass about it I think they're all good kids just poor decision making when the consequences were known by all parties

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

The fake Id thing for yogi pissed me off the most he had maybe a week before he turned 21 I'm not condoning the underage drinking but its going to happen and does everywhere show me a school that says nobody on their team parties or drinks or smokes and I'll show you a liar the ignorance of the whole thing don't go out to a bar with a fake id when you are the most noticeable person on campus, do what everyone else does and pregame at a frat house or something. The drug tests are a whole other story they knew all along they would get tested and they made a conscious decision to smoke anyway its not oh I thought it was hookah that story is a complete crock to get keep mom off his ass about it I think they're all good kids just poor decision making when the consequences were known by all parties

That's why I hold the fake ID and the drug tests to be about the same. Yogi knew (or should have known) that he couldn't get away with using a fake ID in Bloomington. I mean, come on. And that it was breaking both the law and team rules. Same as Troy and Stan knew or should have known that they couldn't get away with smoking pot near a drug testing time and it was breaking both the law and team rules. If every time Troy is mentioned the discussion is going to devolve into calling him a pothead then maybe every Yogi conversation should devolve into calling him not so bright.

Heck, Holt and Hanner made WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse choices than Troy and no one is quite on their balls about it like they are with Troy and Stan.

They both made very bad choices and got caught. The difference is, that Yogi's bad choice is acceptable with everyone in Indiana so it's easy to write-off and Troy's isn't. 

[bnkepner 1,509]

Sure. It can make you angry. But, is anger an excuse to spout vileness? Like I said, there's a difference between being critical and being nasty. You can tell your co-worker that you don't think his latest work was up to par or that he messed up something, but going back and talking about what an idiot he is isn't necessary. I don't care if people say they shouldn't be on the team, but seriously read through this thread and try and imagine saying it about anyone else and see if you don't get a little uneasy. And I don't care what people say, this 100% affects recruiting. Who the hell would ever want to play for this team and these fans?

 

I definitely agree that it is not called for to get personal about players. It was especially this summer when Zeisloft, Priller, Holt, April, and Max signed and people just went nuts on them. I just don't think its necessary. Complaining and attacking players online isn't going to get the players kicked off the team

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

That's why I hold the fake ID and the drug tests to be about the same. Yogi knew (or should have known) that he couldn't get away with using a fake ID in Bloomington. I mean, come on. And that it was breaking both the law and team rules. Same as Troy and Stan knew or should have known that they couldn't get away with smoking pot near a drug testing time and it was breaking both the law and team rules. If every time Troy is mentioned the discussion is going to devolve into calling him a pothead then maybe every Yogi conversation should devolve into calling him not so bright.

Heck, Holt and Hanner made WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse choices than Troy and no one is quite on their balls about it like they are with Troy and Stan.

They both made very bad choices and got caught. The difference is, that Yogi's bad choice is acceptable with everyone in Indiana so it's easy to write-off and Troy's isn't. 

My whole issue with Troy is that he ran a teammate off. If I am unaware of someone else on the team that has done the same thing then I apologize, but to my knowledge he is the one and only on the "TEAM" that has done this.

 

****Which just so happens to be a big man that we lack this year**** 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

You don't have to believe anything I say. Nobody does. Nor do I have prove anything to you to voice my opinion. I don't believe I called him any names other than a dope smoker or pot head, but I do believe there is sufficient evidence available to prove that much is true.

Never said you did. Just pointing out that immediately believing anyone who shows up on an anonymous forum and claims to have insider knowledge isn't a very smart way to handle fandom. I'm perfectly willing to accept you're telling the truth, but the blind unquestioning acceptance of what you said simply because it fits an existing narrative isn't something I like to see in my fanbases. It's just too easy and I'm too much of a stickler to believe so quickly.

I mean, I could make an account and say that I hunt with Cody's mom and she told me he would have stayed for two more years  as was tradition in the Zeller family but Crean has a serious body odor and tooth brushing issue and insists on being really close to you when he talks. It's believable, relatively innocuous, and has grains of truth we can verify (Crean is a total close talker, we can see that). But, people shouldn't believe me just because I hit those points.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

Never said you did. Just pointing out that immediately believing anyone who shows up on an anonymous forum and claims to have insider knowledge isn't a very smart way to handle fandom. I'm perfectly willing to accept you're telling the truth, but the blind unquestioning acceptance of what you said simply because it fits an existing narrative isn't something I like to see in my fanbases. It's just too easy and I'm too much of a stickler to believe so quickly.

I mean, I could make an account and say that I hunt with Cody's mom and she told me he would have stayed for two more years  as was tradition in the Zeller family but Crean has a serious body odor and tooth brushing issue and insists on being really close to you when he talks. It's believable, relatively innocuous, and has grains of truth we can verify (Crean is a total close talker, we can see that). But, people shouldn't believe me just because I hit those points.

You make a fair enough point. Humorous as well.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,976]

I definitely agree that it is not called for to get personal about players. It was especially this summer when Zeisloft, Priller, Holt, April, and Max signed and people just went nuts on them. I just don't think its necessary. Complaining and attacking players online isn't going to get the players kicked off the team

This is an honest thought I've had numerous times the past year: I would never go to Facebook/twitter/ESPN etc and be negative or critical of individual players but I feel like a fan forum like this is an appropriate place to be critical of individuals.

I now KNOW player's families and likely players frequent these sites. I personally think it's tough, because I view this as a semi-private fan site and a preferred location to discuss the program over more highly public places like Twitter.

I think twitter is a place where only sun shine pumping should occur as it can be a direct link to players and families. I continue to hold the belief that BTownBanners should be exactly what it is, a place for all thoughts and opinions and a place to be critical. I would hope parents could discern the difference.

FWIW I hate seeing the negative, harsh, horrible things I see in public places (twitter etc) from IU fans. Absolutely not the place for it IMO. But I guess that goes back to the state of program discussion.

Edit-this question is a general one to everyone, but Kepners post made me rethink the thought again

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

This is an honest thought I've had numerous times the past year: I would never go to Facebook/twitter/ESPN etc and be negative or critical of individual players but I feel like a fan forum like this is an appropriate place to be critical of individuals.

I now KNOW player's families and likely players frequent these sites. I personally think it's tough, because I view this as a semi-private fan site and a preferred location to discuss the program over more highly public places like Twitter.

I think twitter is a place where only sun shine pumping should occur as it can be a direct link to players and families. I continue to hold the belief that BTownBanners should be exactly what it is, a place for all thoughts and opinions and a place to be critical. I would hope parents could discern the difference.

FWIW I hate seeing the negative, harsh, horrible things I see in public places (twitter etc) from IU fans. Absolutely not the place for it IMO. But I guess that goes back to the state of program discussion.

Edit-this question is a general one to everyone, but Kepners post made me rethink the thought again

Totally agree. This is a "fan" message board. Fan, short for fanatic. We are all huge IU fans, and some stuff on here is overly dramaticized. i.e. We are the worst team I have ever seen or CTC needs fired immediately also Troy and JBJ are 1st round locks. It is what we do as fanatics. There are also some good opinions and great conversation on here as well, and in the long run I would much rather be doing this than filing TPS reports or Homework or whatever you may be procrastinating on to devote your time to this site. 

[KingPG21 6,583]

This is an honest thought I've had numerous times the past year: I would never go to Facebook/twitter/ESPN etc and be negative or critical of individual players but I feel like a fan forum like this is an appropriate place to be critical of individuals.

I now KNOW player's families and likely players frequent these sites. I personally think it's tough, because I view this as a semi-private fan site and a preferred location to discuss the program over more highly public places like Twitter.

I think twitter is a place where only sun shine pumping should occur as it can be a direct link to players and families. I continue to hold the belief that BTownBanners should be exactly what it is, a place for all thoughts and opinions and a place to be critical. I would hope parents could discern the difference.

FWIW I hate seeing the negative, harsh, horrible things I see in public places (twitter etc) from IU fans. Absolutely not the place for it IMO. But I guess that goes back to the state of program discussion.

Edit-this question is a general one to everyone, but Kepners post made me rethink the thought again

My one big issue with places like this is when people feel it is appropriate to go after the players, calling them "terrible people" is a personal thing to me that should be kept to ones self. We don't interact with them personally to really make the call and say who they are as people, but get the big stuff that comes across the boards and then we reply to that. Another big one is something that one of our posters last season did a lot, calling them players or CTC "mentally challenged". He didn't use this wording, we all know what I'm getting at here, that language to me at least should be kept completely out of places like here. 

 

I do love the site, but there are some things I see posted here that really piss me off personally, and wish people would hold off on. 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

My one big issue with places like this is when people feel it is appropriate to go after the players, calling them "terrible people" is a personal thing to me that should be kept to ones self. We don't interact with them personally to really make the call and say who they are as people, but get the big stuff that comes across the boards and then we reply to that. Another big one is something that one of our posters last season did a lot, calling them players or CTC "mentally challenged". He didn't use this wording, we all know what I'm getting at here, that language to me at least should be kept completely out of places like here. 

 

I do love the site, but there are some things I see posted here that really piss me off personally, and wish people would hold off on. 

That's exactly how I feel. This is a great place to be critical, to question Troy's ability to create, the minutes (or lack thereof) given to Holt, Hanner's consistent biting on fakes, etc. Heck, criticize off-the-court decisions too. Troy made a bad decision in smoking. If Troy kicked Colin out of their room and drove him off then Troy should lose his place on the team. That's all totally different than saying "good riddance" to players currently on our team, or constantly calling them "Cheech and Chong" or saying all they're good for is smoking weed or insulting their parents. Everyone gets worked up past the point of rational thought and discussion and it's very disappointing.

I mean, I also don't like people's willingness to disregard positives in order to be overly critical, but that's a personal choice. (Troy never gets credit around here for good games. He can have 3 assists and still people say he didn't pass the whole game.)

[CampHoosier 3,697]

Never once have I called a player a pot head or maliciously attacked them. If you read my posts I simply am pointing out that there has been zero accountability and zero remorse. #1CreanApologist can attest to the fact that I was on the front lines defending Crean and these guys when the fake ID thing happened. But the fact that they did it again is a slap in the face not only to their coach but to the University they represent. How can anyone look at the current state of our program and say there aren't inflated egos? Thinking you can do what you want with no consequences is a result of thinking you're above the standard of what the regular IU student is held to. How do I know that they don't understand consequences? Because one of our players has two failed drug tests, a Public intox, and a citation for using fake identification. Some blame Crean for getting these guys. Some blame Crean for not controlling the situation. Both are valid. But at some point enough is enough. We wouldn't be on a forum if we weren't fanatics about IU basketball. It's one of the most important things in my life. When it is being pissed on by our own players, I for one take extreme offense. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,574]

That's the point: they play for us. They represent us as Alumni, fans, students, and residents of this State. They have consistently shown that means nothing to them. Failing a drug test isn't the issue, it's failing two. It's not getting caught with a fake ID, it's getting popped for drugs less than 2 months later. Everyone deserves a second chance. These guys are now on their 3rd and 4th. The story of how Fischer was treated alone should make you angry that these kids put on the Cream and Crimson.

Very well stated. I could not agree more. Some of these kids think that because then can throw a ball through a hoop that they are somehow above the rules. Poppycock.

[HoosierCoop 3,889]

I have been a fan of IU basketball since the late 70's.

 

To be able to discuss Hoosier basketball on this large of scale is awesome to me.  Unfortunately, with any large group discussion, you will get all sorts of personalities.  Those that shouldn't be on this site I have full confidence in our MODS for handling.

 

To keep going on historically as a fan, we have never really had to deal with off the court issues, team chemistry, etc.  It was never tolerated from Knight.  This isn't a comparison by any means but simply different times we are working with.  AAU has really tainted the college basketball scene and it is a really big business industry.

 

I for one would love to banter about just basketball, unfortunately with technology and other issues, we cannot achieve that.

 

As a fan though, I can't say that I am totally happy with the state of our program but we ALL have to understand how to express it in a manner that is suitable for all to comprehend.  We also have to respect the fact that we will never be in total agreement.

 

As much as I dislike it, our team and fan base has evolved.

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

I dunno about the above. Knight had issues with weed and drinking also. We just didn't have the internet to disperse such info. That is why I don't care for the "this is indiana" stuff. Besides paying players to come here, we aren't a squeaky clean program either. I'm not going to act like it is. All I need is students to go to class, bust some heads on the court and not rape college girls. I personally don't ever think about yogi trying to get a drink before him being 21.. who cares really..

[HoosierDribbler 464]

As an avid IU bball fan since the early 70's, I hate how my university is being represented.  I'm embarrassed that recently while out in public wearing some IU gear I had several people make comments about the problems/issues going on within our bball program. It reflects very poorly on all of us. I've always been a very proud Hoosier fan, not so much right now. And that really angers me. It's not for me to place or direct blame on anyone, but someone in power needs to be doing something to bring back the pride in this program.

[AKHoosier 6,747]

Are Troy and Stan a sign that maybe Kenny Johnson wasn't such a terrible loss to the program after all?

 

I'm a day late but you beat me to it.

 

The "loss" of Kenny Johnson was so overrated I can't even put it into words.  Sometimes I wish he would have taken his first two recruits with him.

[Rookie33 932]

I'm a day late but you beat me to it.

The "loss" of Kenny Johnson was so overrated I can't even put it into words. Sometimes I wish he would have taken his first two recruits with him.

It all goes back to the first 4 games (2 exhibitions included). Everything changed when Cheech and Chong came back from suspension. The Nation has spoken loud and clear - we are better off without them.