College Bball Thread

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Stuck in the house and bored so I have a question. Do you think that since advanced analytics have become prominent that they are a better indicator of team/player performance or do you think that the ol' eye test is better? I get both sides but to me there are so many things a team/player can or cannot do that cannot be tracked by analytics so I give the nod to eye test. I also admittedly get nauseous when people try to defend obviously bad play by reciting stats. Just curious where some of you stand with this.

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I hate analytics and think it's is ruing sports in general. In basketball it is taking away the third of the court and it makes it easier to defend. To me any open shot that goes in is a good shot but these computer geeks say that mid range game is bad. They say today's way of playing is more efficient but why is scoring and shooting down today compared to the past.

[rcbowla]

Depends on what analytic and whose eye.

So what analytics do you think are good indicators?

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[str8baller]

4 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

So what analytics do you think are good indicators?

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When fed enough data, I think something like Sagarin or Kenpom are superior to the AP top 25.  The latter’s pace data is good, too. The “pro’s” in Vegas don’t deviate a whole lot for those basic metrics when setting lines. 
 

In the NBA where you get enough data for line-up efficiency ratings, I think those are pretty useful.  
 

Of course, the worse eye you have for basketball the more broadly statistics becomes helpful. For example, a traditional box score isn’t really great from an analytical standpoint, but if you didn’t even watch the game the box score will give you a lot of information you would not have otherwise.  

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Depends on what analytic and whose eye.

Did somebody say WayneFleek eye test? ;)


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[go iu bb]

17 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Skyy Clark is the least athletic borderline five star player I’ve ever seen

Not sad we missed on him.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I hate analytics and think it's is ruing sports in general. In basketball it is taking away the third of the court and it makes it easier to defend. To me any open shot that goes in is a good shot but these computer geeks say that mid range game is bad. They say today's way of playing is more efficient but why is scoring and shooting down today compared to the past.

By that assumption, teams taking a lot of mid range jumpers would be succeeding since it should open things up.  But that hasn't been happening.  

Open mid range shots are better than contested threes and contested shots at the rim.  The goal isn't to get the ball into a position that is easily defended.  But open shots close at the rim and open threes are better than open mid range shots in general.

[RaceToTheTop]

54 minutes ago, str8baller said:

When fed enough data, I think something like Sagarin or Kenpom are superior to the AP top 25.  The latter’s pace data is good, too. The “pro’s” in Vegas don’t deviate a whole lot for those basic metrics when setting lines. 
 

In the NBA where you get enough data for line-up efficiency ratings, I think those are pretty useful.  
 

Of course, the worse eye you have for basketball the more broadly statistics becomes helpful. For example, a traditional box score isn’t really great from an analytical standpoint, but if you didn’t even watch the game the box score will give you a lot of information you would not have otherwise.  

It's important to remember that Sagarin and Kenpom are meant to be predictive and not reflectivve.  Typically good for predicting future success but not necessarily meant to measure what a team has done in terms of wins and losses to that point.

I like to look at Pom and Sagarin to see what they feel a team will do the rest of the regular season.  But when it comes to picking and seeding teams for the tournament, the only thing that would matter to me are wins, losses, and strength of schedule.  In essence, give me Pom and Sagarin to predict but eye test to reward teams at the end of the season.  I don't think it's the committee's job to predict what teams are going to do going forward -- I think it is to place teams based on the win/loss results of their games.

[IU Scott]

21 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

By that assumption, teams taking a lot of mid range jumpers would be succeeding since it should open things up.  But that hasn't been happening.  

Open mid range shots are better than contested threes and contested shots at the rim.  The goal isn't to get the ball into a position that is easily defended.  But open shots close at the rim and open threes are better than open mid range shots in general.

Problem is that nobody takes a lot of mid range shots

[str8baller]

2 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

It's important to remember that Sagarin and Kenpom are meant to be predictive and not reflectivve.  Typically good for predicting future success but not necessarily meant to measure what a team has done in terms of wins and losses to that point.

Sagrin has several ratings, and one used to take wins and losses into account.  It was a chess based system. I liked it because it factored in actual winning, but I guess nobody else did and he’s since taken it off. FWIW, we’re 15 and Kennesaw is 240 in Sagarin. 

Kenpom is nice and people ultimately gravitated there because he keeps pace stats. His “luck” metric is useful too. 

But you generally want the predictive metrics. They’re actual analytics. I don’t care what the tournament committee does outside of IU’s bid. They’re about as relevant to the actual basketball played on the floor as a human poll when talking about how do we interpret what we see on the floor. 

[RaceToTheTop]

6 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Problem is that nobody takes a lot of mid range shots

They take less of them than they used to, but that doesn't many that there aren't teams taking more of them than others.  And the ones that are taking more of them are struggling offensively.

[Demo]

https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Kevin-Willard-Big-Ten-doesnt-understand-how-to-schedule-a-basketball-game-has-caused-its-title-drought-201188531/
 

This is one epic whine by Kevin Willard. Yeah, pretty sure Purdue lost to St Peter’s because of the way the B1G league office scheduled them in January. Tell you what, Kevin, I’ll stipulate to your tournament expertise since you’ve won 1 tournament game in your career, but how about playing at least, I don’t know,  half of a conference schedule before going off on it. 

[Uspshoosier]

Seattle/George Washington start the day out with Hawaii/SMU close it out for the Diamond head Classic championship 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Kevin-Willard-Big-Ten-doesnt-understand-how-to-schedule-a-basketball-game-has-caused-its-title-drought-201188531/
 
This is one epic whine by Kevin Willard. Yeah, pretty sure Purdue lost to St Peter’s because of the way the B1G league office scheduled them in January. Tell you what, Kevin, I’ll stipulate to your tournament expertise since you’ve won 1 tournament game in your career, but how about playing at least, I don’t know,  half of a conference schedule before going off on it. 

He did make some sense though

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[IUc2016]

2 hours ago, Demo said:

https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Kevin-Willard-Big-Ten-doesnt-understand-how-to-schedule-a-basketball-game-has-caused-its-title-drought-201188531/
 

This is one epic whine by Kevin Willard. Yeah, pretty sure Purdue lost to St Peter’s because of the way the B1G league office scheduled them in January. Tell you what, Kevin, I’ll stipulate to your tournament expertise since you’ve won 1 tournament game in your career, but how about playing at least, I don’t know,  half of a conference schedule before going off on it. 

Wait, you disagree though? 
 

Not sure it’s the reason the big ten hasn’t won a championship, but the scheduling is really really questionable 

[Demo]

9 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Wait, you disagree though? 
 

Not sure it’s the reason the big ten hasn’t won a championship, but the scheduling is really really questionable 

I think 2 things: 1) I think schedules where you aren’t playing everyone home and home are inherently unequal. No way around it. But, if you play 5 of your 1st 7 on the road, you’re then playing 8 of your last 13 at home. Everyone’s playing 10 and 10. I don’t want to hear preemptive bitching about it from a coach. 2) I think the idea that B1G seasonal scheduling has anything at all  to do with failures in the tournament lacks even the slightest merit, and a coach who’s yet to play a season in the conference needs to have a seat. 

[Uspshoosier]

51 minutes ago, Demo said:

I think 2 things: 1) I think schedules where you aren’t playing everyone home and home are inherently unequal. No way around it. But, if you play 5 of your 1st 7 on the road, you’re then playing 8 of your last 13 at home. Everyone’s playing 10 and 10. I don’t want to hear preemptive bitching about it from a coach. 2) I think the idea that B1G seasonal scheduling has anything at all  to do with failures in the tournament lacks even the slightest merit, and a coach who’s yet to play a season in the conference needs to have a seat. 

Quick look at Twitter and it seems bashing conference schedules his is thing.   I guess he did it at seton hall as well.  
 

 

[Uspshoosier]

Wow now that’s good use of NIL money.   Legend 

[IUc2016]

1 hour ago, Demo said:

I think 2 things: 1) I think schedules where you aren’t playing everyone home and home are inherently unequal. No way around it. But, if you play 5 of your 1st 7 on the road, you’re then playing 8 of your last 13 at home. Everyone’s playing 10 and 10. I don’t want to hear preemptive bitching about it from a coach. 2) I think the idea that B1G seasonal scheduling has anything at all  to do with failures in the tournament lacks even the slightest merit, and a coach who’s yet to play a season in the conference needs to have a seat. 

I already said that I don’t think it’s the sole reason for failures, but that has NOTHING to do with the merits of his complaints that the scheduling is bad. 
 

of course schedules will be uneven, but tip times, 5 of seven on the road, severely uneven number of Saturday and Sunday home tips (equaling more weekday games for some teams with less than great atmospheres) combined with unbalanced schedules is a joke. 
 

the SEC and other leagues play one night during the week (Tuesday/Wednesday) and on Saturday. The big ten playing every night of the week further exacerbates the uneven schedules not in just who you play, but when you play them. Playing two road games in a week or 4 in two weeks is a joke. So you can bash him all you want, but he isn’t wrong. 

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, IUc2016 said:

I already said that I don’t think it’s the sole reason for failures, but that has NOTHING to do with the merits of his complaints that the scheduling is bad. 
 

of course schedules will be uneven, but tip times, 5 of seven on the road, severely uneven number of Saturday and Sunday home tips (equaling more weekday games for some teams with less than great atmospheres) combined with unbalanced schedules is a joke. 
 

the SEC and other leagues play one night during the week (Tuesday/Wednesday) and on Saturday. The big ten playing every night of the week further exacerbates the uneven schedules not in just who you play, but when you play them. Playing two road games in a week or 4 in two weeks is a joke. So you can bash him all you want, but he isn’t wrong. 

This is what happens when greedy conferences want to expand and get to big .  When it was 10 the scheduling was easy and it was a round robin.  Also the schedule would be every team played on Thursday and Saturday and everyone had a travel partner.  It was so easy to keep track when and who you were playing.

[Uspshoosier]

Smu up 2 with 2:16 to go.  Good finish coming up