(2019) SF Trendon Watford to LSU

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I think if everyone stops associating the implied willingness of a family to accept money and benefits being offered to them by almost every party they encounter with a lack of morality, we'll all be better for it. Is it against the NCAA rules? Yes. Is the NCAA clean and good? Meh. Does that make it acceptable? Well, no. Is it really hurting anyone? No.

Personally, if these families are being offered loads of cash or benefits in return for their sons making a school or shoe company a ton of money, I have no problem with the families accepting. I don't think it makes them better or worse people at all either.

AAU coaches and others in positions to manipulate others, not their child, accepting money... that feels much, much more deplorable.

A school, who receives protections and support in their "business" from the NCAA, should respect the rules of the NCAA. I hope that Indiana chooses to follow these rules, regardless of others' choices.

[Chris007 43,626]

47 minutes ago, Woodson1980 said:

While I'm pretty sure Alabama is shady that doesn't mean the Watfords are also.Could be the kid just really likes them.
Might be why the family wonders why we backed off.
If when the smoke clears we're on the same page I think we all would be more than happy to have a legacy recruit like Trendon.Hope thats the case.


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More to it then what you're saying but yes if the family and staff are on the same page than I would love Watford to be a Hoosier. 

[HoosierAloha 30,044]

I think if everyone stops associating the implied willingness of a family to accept money and benefits being offered to them by almost every party they encounter with a lack of morality, we'll all be better for it. Is it against the NCAA rules? Yes. Is the NCAA clean and good? Meh. Does that make it acceptable? Well, no. Is it really hurting anyone? No.
Personally, if these families are being offered loads of cash or benefits in return for their sons making a school or shoe company a ton of money, I have no problem with the families accepting. I don't think it makes them better or worse people at all either.
AAU coaches and others in positions to manipulate others, not their child, accepting money... that feels much, much more deplorable.
A school, who receives protections and support in their "business" from the NCAA, should respect the rules of the NCAA. I hope that Indiana chooses to follow these rules, regardless of others' choices.

How do you feel about relatives, coaches, or others in their circle receiving jobs?

I'm all about kids/family getting what they think they're worth but I'm also about an even playing field. Hell, there are salary caps in the pros. K, slime, Ol' Roy, older bro Miller, self, and others having been operating without a cap for years. Why would they ever think about coaching in the pros when they can make as much, or more, money in college and stack things in their favor.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

14 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

How do you feel about relatives, coaches, or others in their circle receiving jobs?

I'm all about kids/family getting what they think they're worth but I'm also about an even playing field. Hell, there are salary caps in the pros. K, slime, Ol' Roy, older bro Miller, self, and others having been operating without a cap for years. Why would they ever think about coaching in the pros when they can make as much, or more, money in college and stack things in their favor.


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I don't like anyone receiving a job for reasons other than that they are the most qualified individual. That typically has a much more direct negative impact on others.

I'm about an even playing field as well! The kids and families aren't responsible for enforcing that though.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,221]

34 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

How do you feel about relatives, coaches, or others in their circle receiving jobs?

It really doesn't matter because it's been going on forever.  Larry Brown conveniently hired Danny Manning's dad in 1983.  He had basketball experience but was he really qualified for a D1 coaching position,  I really don't know.

Bob Knight conveniently hired Bob Donewald the high school coach of John Laskowski and Tom Abernethy and later hired Ron Felling, Marty Simmons' high school coach.  Both Donewald and Simmons had been high school coaches for quite some time but..........!      I know there's many more examples but those are the ones that I always think of when this kind of discussion arises.   It's just so much more evident in today's environment with the internet and social media.  40-years ago, news of IU hiring Donewald as an assistant coach probably didn't go much further than the the South Bend Tribune, Indy Star and the IU Alumni Magazine.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,092]

I think if everyone stops associating the implied willingness of a family to accept money and benefits being offered to them by almost every party they encounter with a lack of morality, we'll all be better for it. Is it against the NCAA rules? Yes. Is the NCAA clean and good? Meh. Does that make it acceptable? Well, no. Is it really hurting anyone? No.
Personally, if these families are being offered loads of cash or benefits in return for their sons making a school or shoe company a ton of money, I have no problem with the families accepting. I don't think it makes them better or worse people at all either.
AAU coaches and others in positions to manipulate others, not their child, accepting money... that feels much, much more deplorable.
A school, who receives protections and support in their "business" from the NCAA, should respect the rules of the NCAA. I hope that Indiana chooses to follow these rules, regardless of others' choices.

I like this. I feel this way completely. I’ve called tons of schools and coaches “cheaters” because they are in one or more ways.

But mostly I’m frustrated Indiana isn’t keeping up with the Jones’ to stay competitive over the past 15 years.


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[Hoosierfan2017 21,080]

If everyone cheats, are you really doing anything wrong? It wouldn't be to gain an advantage over other schools. It would be an attempt to level the playing field. I don't have a problem with that. 

[Stuhoo 79,929]

15 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If everyone cheats, are you really doing anything wrong? It wouldn't be to gain an advantage over other schools. It would be an attempt to level the playing field. I don't have a problem with that. 

 

1. Everybody doesn't cheat.
2. Yes, it would still be wrong, but it would also be that much more difficult to hold the wrongdoers accountable.

 “The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching." 

 

[cthomas 6,369]

20 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If everyone cheats, are you really doing anything wrong? It wouldn't be to gain an advantage over other schools. It would be an attempt to level the playing field. I don't have a problem with that. 

See professional cycling and doping for years!

[Hoosierfan2017 21,080]

31 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

1. Everybody doesn't cheat.
2. Yes, it would still be wrong, but it would also be that much more difficult to hold the wrongdoers accountable.

 “The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching." 

 

I'm not looking for a leg up on other schools, I just want a level playing field. Our program was decimated because of phone calls while UNC skates after years of fake classes. Watching these others schools cheat like crazy year in and year out and reap the rewards of it sucks. 

[Stuhoo 79,929]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I'm not looking for a leg up on other schools, I just want a level playing field. Our program was decimated because of phone calls while UNC skates after years of fake classes. Watching these others schools cheat like crazy year in and year out and reap the rewards of it sucks. 

 

If my kid says that almost everyone in his class is cheating on tests in a school course, I'm gonna tell him that's really disappointing; now go and study so that you can get an A with integrity.

 

[Maedhros 627]

54 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

If my kid says that almost everyone in his class is cheating on tests in a school course, I'm gonna tell him that's really disappointing; now go and study so that you can get an A with integrity.

 

Perhaps. But on my way home from work today, I'm going to drive 5-10 miles an hour over the speed limit, just like everybody else.

[Stuhoo 79,929]

Perhaps. But on my way home from work today, I'm going to drive 5-10 miles an hour over the speed limit, just like everybody else.

True, but different. Driving 5 miles over the speed limit is universally not enforced. If you drive 10 miles over the speed limit you take your chances. If an officer chooses to enforce the law no matter how much you are over the speed limit, you’ve got to pay.
College basketball cheating is not as universal as “5 miles over the speed limit.“ So, if you get caught with a bad enough violation, you’ve got to pay.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,092]

True, but different. Driving 5 miles over the speed limit is universally not enforced. If you drive 10 miles over the speed limit you take your chances. If an officer chooses to enforce the law no matter how much you are over the speed limit, you’ve got to pay.
College basketball cheating is not as universal as “5 miles over the speed limit.“ So, if you get caught with a bad enough violation, you’ve got to pay.


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Good analogy going here. NCAA and cheating is about the same as cops and 5 over the limit.

Lots of schools do 70 over the limit and get nothing. Louisville just happened to try Mach speed in a school zone, so the NCAA had a forced hand.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I like this. I feel this way completely. I’ve called tons of schools and coaches “cheaters” because they are in one or more ways.

But mostly I’m frustrated Indiana isn’t keeping up with the Jones’ to stay competitive over the past 15 years.


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In my mind, those schools and coaches are cheaters and I want no part of that. The kids and their families - honestly they're just victims of a system that incentives corrupt practices. They're complicit too, but the only reason they have to play by these rules is because the NCAA/NBA created the system essentially right in the way of their path forward. And when agents of this system offer them something, who are they to cry wolf?

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

37 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

In my mind, those schools and coaches are cheaters and I want no part of that. The kids and their families - honestly they're just victims of a system that incentives corrupt practices. They're complicit too, but the only reason they have to play by these rules is because the NCAA/NBA created the system essentially right in the way of their path forward. And when agents of this system offer them something, who are they to cry wolf?

No one is a victim. No one has to be paid to go to UNC, if they want to go to UNC, go to UNC. If you want to go to Kentucky (yuck) go to Kentucky. If you want to be paid, then you're part of the problem. 

There is only 1 way to get money to go to a school. Accept money. You either go where you want, or accept money to go elsewhere.

[MikeRoberts 6,945]

 

If my kid says that almost everyone in his class is cheating on tests in a school course, I'm gonna tell him that's really disappointing; now go and study so that you can get an A with integrity.

 

In basketball though not everyone can get an A, if someone is winning, someone is losing.

 

Cheating in basketball has more of an impact on others than it does in other areas of life

 

 

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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

No one is a victim. No one has to be paid to go to UNC, if they want to go to UNC, go to UNC. If you want to go to Kentucky (yuck) go to Kentucky. If you want to be paid, then you're part of the problem. 
There is only 1 way to get money to go to a school. Accept money. You either go where you want, or accept money to go elsewhere.

If the NCAA tells them they can’t risk their amateurism, but does nothing to prevent individuals and schools from essentially trying to sabotage their amateurism, that’s a pretty brutal environment to be pushed into.


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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 minute ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

If the NCAA tells them they can’t risk their amateurism, but does nothing to prevent individuals and schools from essentially trying to sabotage their amateurism, that’s a pretty brutal environment to be pushed into.


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Why?

Temptations are all around us. You don't have to acquiesce.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Why?
Temptations are all around us. You don't have to acquiesce.

I think it’s a whole lot different than you or I just not eating that extra chocolate or not evading taxes, but I hear you.


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