Michigan Coach Dusty May to Dallas Mavs

[jermhoosierfan]

32 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Sorry to derail this train from its path that’s already off the rails.  But It’s interesting how the admin has embraced Cig he’s clearly the face of the university.  PW and SD have embraced it and looked to the benefits versus just the drawbacks of having a famous coach.  
 

And that healthy relationship with them has caused him to shower them with praise and use his contract to help protect them.  

A lot of that probably has to do with a University President who has seen football increase the visibility and enrollment of the University from outside of the state.  She happened to have an AD who was all in for doing that also, so you get them finally taking it seriously.  

[AZ Hoosier]

52 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Sorry to derail this train from its path that’s already off the rails.  But It’s interesting how the admin has embraced Cig he’s clearly the face of the university.  PW and SD have embraced it and looked to the benefits versus just the drawbacks of having a famous coach.  
 

And that healthy relationship with them has caused him to shower them with praise and use his contract to help protect them.  

It also helps that Cig is not a d!ck about it. For all of RMK's ability and coaching chops, he had way more than his share of warts, personality-wise.

[str8baller]

5 hours ago, AH1971 said:

So IU is too good for conference titles and S16's? Noted

Like I said, this fanbase is dumb and delusional.

No. Crean was a treeless recruiter and bad basketball coach. When his recruiting hit he was able to get some decent results. When it didn’t he floundered. 
 

If that’s what you like watching, by all means enjoy. I do not. We know IU basketball is capable of more. Personally I think the last 25 years have sucked. I understand some of you have been quite pleased with the results. The admin apparently falls somewhere in the middle. 

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Sorry to derail this train from its path that’s already off the rails.  But It’s interesting how the admin has embraced Cig he’s clearly the face of the university.  PW and SD have embraced it and looked to the benefits versus just the drawbacks of having a famous coach.  
 

And that healthy relationship with them has caused him to shower them with praise and use his contract to help protect them.  

Dolson seems to at least get the history and PW seems to value sports. Having Cig fall in their laps was a godsend and both seem to realize it. I’m sure the two decades of IU basketball trying and failing to get back on track helped them come to those realizations. 

[AH1971]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

No. Crean was a treeless recruiter and bad basketball coach. When his recruiting hit he was able to get some decent results. When it didn’t he floundered. 
 

If that’s what you like watching, by all means enjoy. I do not. We know IU basketball is capable of more. Personally I think the last 25 years have sucked. I understand some of you have been quite pleased with the results. The admin apparently falls somewhere in the middle. 

Floundered? He spent 3 years rebuilding a program he inherited with no scholarship players before the portal or otherwise the rebuild would have been accelerated quicker. He won two outright B10 titles and went to 3 S16's in a 6 year stretch, by far the best stretch of Indiana basketball since the early 90's. He missed the tournament (barely) the year after losing two top 5 draft picks and two other 4 year starters while playing a bunch of upperclassmen. He was canned in a year in which he beat two top 5 teams including national champion UNC after losing his best player to an ACL injury while ranked in early January. He never "floundered" at IU once he rebuilt it. 

Telling a coach B10 championships and second weekend appearances aren't good enough is the reason why IU is where they are today. And we deserve every bit of it. 

[str8baller]

31 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Floundered? He spent 3 years rebuilding a program he inherited with no scholarship players before the portal or otherwise the rebuild would have been accelerated quicker. He won two outright B10 titles and went to 3 S16's in a 3 year stretch, by far the best stretch of Indiana basketball since the early 90's. He missed the tournament (barely) the year after losing two top 5 draft picks and two other 4 year starters playing a bunch of upperclassmen. He was canned in a year in which he beat two top 5 teams including national champion UNC after losing his best player to an ACL injury while ranked in early January. He never "floundered" at IU once he rebuilt it. 

Telling a coach B10 championships and second weekend appearances aren't good enough is the reason why IU is where they are today. And we deserve every btt of it. 

I already conceded the fact that you were enamored with Crean…and Woody.  

Nobody else thinks they are good coaches. But you are welcome to your opinion. 

[JSHoosier]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

I already conceded the fact that you were enamored with Crean…and Woody.  

Nobody else thinks they are good coaches. But you are welcome to your opinion. 

Crean definitely wasn't any sort of world beater, he's a pretty mediocre coach. Shows how bad our other coaches have been.

[skhoosier2]

22 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Crean definitely wasn't any sort of world beater, he's a pretty mediocre coach. Shows how bad our other coaches have been.

Crean was what we needed at the time.  Considering what we've had since, I think we would take anything remotely like that success now.  He really had run out of steam recruiting when he was fired.  He's a good guy, supports and talks highly of IU, and is good on tv.  Would I want him coaching my team now?  No.  I think he's very knowledgeable but has deficiencies that showed when he was at IU.  I've been so apathetic to the basketball program that nothing really gets me down especially with IUFB's rise from the ashes.  My hope is we turn the corner as a tournament team and CDD can build something consistent.  ETA: or Dusty fails in the NBA and comes back to IU to revive our dead basketball program LOL

[Hoosier DaDa]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Rhode Island fans are toxic too?

I heard they are called "The Rabid Rams"

[LIHoosier]

7 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Rhode Island fans are toxic too?

Lamar Odom ain't walking through that door.
Stanford Robinson and whichever hand he decides to shoot with this week ain't walking through that door.
Dan Hurley may walk through that door...to slap Archie and take his lunch money.

[str8baller]

1 hour ago, skhoosier2 said:

Considering what we've had since, I think we would take anything remotely like that success now.

Would we? Tom Allen is basically the football version of Crean. Booting him was a great idea. And I have to admit I was skeptical on that one as I certainly didn’t have the vision for IU football that Cig/Dolson had. 
 

To bring the thread full circle, when you see what guys like Cig and May were able to do in 2 years what’s the impetus for hanging on to mediocre coaches for 4+ years? That is, of course, if you have desires for a championship program. What I have learned over the past 2 1/2 decades is that a lot of IU basketball fans are fine with Crean-like results. So maybe I’m in the minority here. 

[AH1971]

5 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Would we? Tom Allen is basically the football version of Crean. Booting him was a great idea. And I have to admit I was skeptical on that one as I certainly didn’t have the vision for IU football that Cig/Dolson had. 
 

To bring the thread full circle, when you see what guys like Cig and May were able to do in 2 years what’s the impetus for hanging on to mediocre coaches for 4+ years? That is, of course, if you have desires for a championship program. What I have learned over the past 2 1/2 decades is that a lot of IU basketball fans are fine with Crean-like results. So maybe I’m in the minority here. 

You’re not going to hire another Cig because another Cig doesn’t exist, he’s 1/1. We’re a quarter century post-Knight and most of you guys still haven’t figured out his clone isn’t walking through that door. Do we really need to do this for another 25 years?

[str8baller]

26 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

You’re not going to hire another Cig

How did IU hire him in the first place? You say it can’t be done, but they did it. 

[Golfman25]

12 hours ago, AH1971 said:

So IU is too good for conference titles and S16's? Noted

Like I said, this fanbase is dumb and delusional.

If you're not first, your last.  : }

But I guess it depends on what your goals are.  If they are to be Mid, then a sweet 16 here and there is a good showing. 

However, if your goat is to compete at a championship level, the Sweet 16 becomes the minimum performance.  The best coaches do Sweet 16 or better 48% to 62% of the time.  Knight (IU) & Self (KU) at (48%); Cal (UK), Dean Smith and Roy Williams (NC) all around 55%; The King, Coach K is at 62%.   

There is zero reason IU's goal can't be to compete at a championship level, again.  

[Golfman25]

9 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Sorry to derail this train from its path that’s already off the rails.  But It’s interesting how the admin has embraced Cig he’s clearly the face of the university.  PW and SD have embraced it and looked to the benefits versus just the drawbacks of having a famous coach.  
 

And that healthy relationship with them has caused him to shower them with praise and use his contract to help protect them.  

Pam Witten is 180 degrees opposite of Myles Brand.  She values the importance of athletics, especially football, to the University.  

[Golfman25]

4 hours ago, skhoosier2 said:

Crean was what we needed at the time.  Considering what we've had since, I think we would take anything remotely like that success now.  He really had run out of steam recruiting when he was fired.  He's a good guy, supports and talks highly of IU, and is good on tv.  Would I want him coaching my team now?  No.  I think he's very knowledgeable but has deficiencies that showed when he was at IU.  I've been so apathetic to the basketball program that nothing really gets me down especially with IUFB's rise from the ashes.  My hope is we turn the corner as a tournament team and CDD can build something consistent.  ETA: or Dusty fails in the NBA and comes back to IU to revive our dead basketball program LOL

Exactly.  Crean will always be a part of IU basketball and should be thanked for walking into a real chitshow.  But he wasn't really fired only for results, as they were actually pretty good looking back.  But there were other issues with the program and where it was headed.   

[Golfman25]

2 hours ago, AH1971 said:

You’re not going to hire another Cig because another Cig doesn’t exist, he’s 1/1. We’re a quarter century post-Knight and most of you guys still haven’t figured out his clone isn’t walking through that door. Do we really need to do this for another 25 years?

There are other Cigs out there.  Dusty seems like the basketball version.  Successful coaches all have similar characteristics.  As I have said, just model them and find the next.  

[Brass Cannon]

14 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

There are other Cigs out there.  Dusty seems like the basketball version.  Successful coaches all have similar characteristics.  As I have said, just model them and find the next.  

Michigan basketball is nothing even close to IU football.  Not to mention it’s always been easier to turn around a basketball program. 
 

I feel like elements of this fanbase are starting to undervalue what Cig did because it really is so unbelievable.  
 

 

[Golfman25]

10 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Michigan basketball is nothing even close to IU football.  Not to mention it’s always been easier to turn around a basketball program. 
 

I feel like elements of this fanbase are starting to undervalue what Cig did because it really is so unbelievable.  
 

 

Yes, what he did was amazing.  Not many coaches can do it.  But, he's essentially done it at evey level, every school he's been to.  The Cig model is no different than US Hockey under Herb Brooks -- take the talent and put it into a system designed for the betterment of the team.  He starts with the QB position.  And backs him up with a running game and strong defense.  From there, it's about outworking the opponent and executing.  It's process-focused, not results-focused.   I think Dusty has some of the same qualities, that's all.      

[AZ Hoosier]

42 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Michigan basketball is nothing even close to IU football.  Not to mention it’s always been easier to turn around a basketball program. 

I feel like elements of this fanbase are starting to undervalue what Cig did because it really is so unbelievable.  

Maybe everywhere but Indiana. Of course those who oversee the program have to be willing to pull the trigger when it's obvious that the trigger needs pulling. It's especially hard with the chairman of the BoT has a massive conflict of interest. 

Yeah, Cig made it look fairly easy, but Cig has something that your average, run-of-the-mill wannabe coach doesn't have. As The General said, everybody wants to win, but not everybody has the will to prepare to win.

Things will never improve until those in charge stop giving a guy 4 years because the guy before him got 4 years. As long as we continue to do that, we are doomed to mediocrity. The good news here is that both Scott and Pam seem to understand that and want to see things improve.

[Brass Cannon]

24 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Maybe everywhere but Indiana. Of course those who oversee the program have to be willing to pull the trigger when it's obvious that the trigger needs pulling. It's especially hard with the chairman of the BoT has a massive conflict of interest. 

Yeah, Cig made it look fairly easy, but Cig has something that your average, run-of-the-mill wannabe coach doesn't have. As The General said, everybody wants to win, but not everybody has the will to prepare to win.

Things will never improve until those in charge stop giving a guy 4 years because the guy before him got 4 years. As long as we continue to do that, we are doomed to mediocrity. The good news here is that both Scott and Pam seem to understand that and want to see things improve.

So much of our last 27 seasons have been self inflicted.  

Of our hires I would argue only 1 hire was a serious hire. 
 

Davis and Woodson were joke hires by completely unserious organizations  

Crean and Miller were meh hires but not up to the quality that a supposed Blue Blood program   And you only fire Crean if you think we are still a Blue Blood  

Samson was a serious hire  

DD I’m unsure about  I thought he was serious but his complete flub of the staff and the roster last year makes me question that