They “Retired” Coach Woodson Thread

[IndyHoops]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

Put another way: it’s not impossible to evaluate mid-major coaches just because they’re less-resourced. Some of us didn’t like the Archie hire from the jump but apply similar critical lenses to May and see a guy who can level up

I think May’s ceiling could be the highest…unfortunately his floor is probably the lowest. I’d be fine with it.

[RaceToTheTop]

9 hours ago, Chris007 said:

On my way to work, I didn't see Woodson's vehicle so I thought maybe he had been let go, then I remembered he was probably just out all night partying with Chris Tucker. 

Jackie Chan as Mike Woodson, Chris Tucker as every player on the team.

 

[SamIam]

1 minute ago, lillurk said:

Put another way: it’s not impossible to evaluate mid-major coaches just because they’re less-resourced. Some of us didn’t like the Archie hire from the jump but apply similar critical lenses to May and see a guy who can level up

Exactly. I remember HATING the Archie hire. We will all be upset in a few years if Dusty goes elsewhere. 

[IU Prof]

1 minute ago, IndyHoops said:

I think May’s ceiling could be the highest…unfortunately his floor is probably the lowest. 

I think this sums it up quite well. 

[lillurk]

What is the argument that May’s floor is low? 
Im being sincere — as far as I can tell it’s projecting prior failed MM coaches on him. The # of guys who made a final 4 at a mid major and are bad coaches…I mean, show me that guy

[AH1971]

34 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Don’t care at all that he was an IU manager. Care that he’s built a team better than any Archie (or Woody) team by Kenpom and  tourney success AT EFF AYY YOU. Everyone wins at Dayton.

Everyone’s risky, I think he’s FAR less so than most other options.

Put it this way: if we made a “wins above replacement coach” that factored in program, talent based on recruiting rankings etc. May’s performance at FAU would break the charts.

“Everybody wins at Dayton” is a lot different than what Archie did at Dayton. 4 straight NCAAT appearances as an AT-LARGE. I think that’s a fact that shouldn’t be glossed over. Dayton has historically been a good program, but rarely if ever were they at-large good. Obviously Anthony Grant has had some good years since, but Archie had the Flyers rolling for a long time and proved it was no fluke.

[Unexpectedflash]

Dusty with a top assistant that knows defense is really appealing. He obviously can coach offense but I wish his defense didn’t fall so much this year. A lot of it could just be being undersized which would hopefully improve here. Archie had flaws with both his offensive and defensive system and he was way too stubborn about it. Hopefully dusty is flexible also and changes something when he sees it’s not working. It would hurt seeing him have a lot of success at OSU. I think most people would be at least decent recruiters here as long as they’re not weirdos and put the time in so I’m less concerned about that. 

[lillurk]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

“Everybody wins at Dayton” is a lot different than what Archie did at Dayton. 4 straight NCAAT appearances as an AT-LARGE. I think that’s a fact that shouldn’t be glossed over. Dayton has historically been a good program, but rarely if ever were they at-large good. Obviously Anthony Grant has had some good years since, but Archie had the Flyers rolling for a long time and proved it was no fluke.

Check his middling Kenpom rankings!

[southsidehoosier]

 

[Rico]

19 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Look, we can disagree on May. That's fine. All I know is that if OSU gets him and we end up getting crapped on by one of our own (again) thats more than a fireable offense for Dolson. 

That is why you should hope that tOSU goes on a huge run.  They name Diebler HC.  Problem solved.

[RaceToTheTop]

7 hours ago, lillurk said:

I do wonder if Jaylin Sellers was going to head close to home (GA) and they just already knew that. But the point @RaceToTheTop is making is valid, there were myriad options available.

I don't know.  I just know that was zero reports of Indiana ever reaching out to him.  Lots of factors beyond NIL but the NIL difference IU and UCF is tremendous.  And while he may have wanted to be closer to home, Columbus, Georgia is 400 miles from UCF.

[RaceToTheTop]

3 hours ago, Mopladysman said:

1 final four in 23 years right?  You guys good with that?

Are you referring to IU's one final four in 23 years or Bruce Pearl's one final four in 23 years?

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, AZ Hoosier said:

A lot of it is perception... John Wooden cheated before cheating was cool. Sam Gilbert provided the grease for anything and anyone that the wizard wanted... cars, cash, "jobs", and no one batted an eye... Wooden gets credit for that incredible 88-game undefeated streak and 10 NCAA championships... but he was cheating the whole time.

So, who really is the winner here?

I get that.  But what gets to me about Sampson's time at IU was he knew he was under scrutiny because he already been caught once.  John Wooden was untouchable back in the day....Sampson wasn't.  Sampson's transgressions weren't to the magnitude of Wooden's, but he lacked self awareness in terms of what was going to happen if he got caught again.  He didn't understand the reward -- which was minor -- to the risk.

[Hornsby]

Are you referring to IU's one final four in 23 years or Bruce Pearl's one final four in 23 years?

We have one final four since 1992.

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[Hoosierfan2017]

20 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

“Everybody wins at Dayton” is a lot different than what Archie did at Dayton. 4 straight NCAAT appearances as an AT-LARGE. I think that’s a fact that shouldn’t be glossed over. Dayton has historically been a good program, but rarely if ever were they at-large good. Obviously Anthony Grant has had some good years since, but Archie had the Flyers rolling for a long time and proved it was no fluke.

 Folks are really overstating the “everyone wins at Dayton” stuff. Archie went to four straight ncaa tournaments. Dayton had been to four ncaa tournaments in 21 years before Archie took over. You’d think he took over the Duke of mid major programs. There’s a lot of revisionist history when it comes to Archie. 

[AH1971]

11 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Check his middling Kenpom rankings!

Archie’s aggregate KenPom rankings are much better than May at FAU. Not comparable. FAU’s Def efficiency numbers have plummeted since last season, all the way down to 100. That’s very concerning for an experienced team who brought back nearly their entire team.

Look, I don’t mind Dusty May. Like Archie, May checks a bunch of the on paper boxes. I’m more concerned with how a coach like Dusty May handles adversity at this level on top of managing enormous program expectations. To me that’s a bigger draw than X’s and O’s. Admittedly I didn’t know much about Archie prior to him being hired, but it was apparent very quickly that his personality and reserved demeanor was always going to make him a tough fit. I get a little sense of that with Dusty May.

[Willkie71]

So it's a good thing these forums weren't around in '71. Can you imagine the posts when IU hired this young unknown Army coach that emphasized defense to coach the "Hurryin Hoosiers"?  No proven P5 record. Not an IU guy.

But there was a lot of media and fan criticism. One of the local burger chains gave out free burgers to fans at the games when IU held the opposing team to under 50 pts.  Haha fun times.  

And that worked out pretty well.  Wish we could do that again. 

[lillurk]

Dayton has spent ~100 years supporting basketball institutionally like most Catholic schools and has NIT banners (from a time that meant more), tournament appearances, and infrastructure to prove it.

FAU is a commuter school with no basketball history.

Arch still has never had a top 25 offense or defense in any season on Kenpom, nor a top 25 finish. May has both.

[RaceToTheTop]

7 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

We have one final four since 1992.

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
 

I understand that.  Was just asking if the OP was referring to Bruce Pearl's one final four in the last 23 seasons or IU's.  

[HoosierTrav]

31 minutes ago, lillurk said:

What is the argument that May’s floor is low? 
Im being sincere — as far as I can tell it’s projecting prior failed MM coaches on him. The # of guys who made a final 4 at a mid major and are bad coaches…I mean, show me that guy

Not a bad coach but how about Shaka Smart at Texas?