Soon to RETIRE Coach Woodson Thread

[Chris007 48,936]

21 minutes ago, Demo said:

Couple of things with this: 1) I assume the bold print is an MSU Insider or some such and their implication is that IU outbid them for Tucker. IU probably outbid someone, but it wasn't MSU, which is currently oversigned by 1, or KU, which if Furphy goes and McNeeley commits is on the number. They didn't have roster room. Funny, I would expect an insider to know that. 2) If you would, either link to the source for the NIL packages that Tucker, Galloway and Leal received or just summarize them because I've never seen those and I'd love to. 3) Ware has been nothing but highly complimentary, probably as gushy as a taciturn kid can get, about his IU experience. He was far less mercenary than I expected.

If Tucker, Galloway, or Leal want to announce how much they got then they can but I won't spoil their payday by saying it but if you don't think they didn't get a raise then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean it's on record on a message board from one of the people who run a NIL collective saying they got a raise.

[Hoosierfan2017 22,436]

18 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

Well said, and I will add Tucker just simply does not move the needle on the fire Woody train. We trade an objectively MUCH better 5-star who filled a need for one who really doesn’t fill a need other than a body that was obviously holding out for more cash. This is nothing like MR, JHS or MM and those recruiting situation. Were they all “short?” Sure I guess, but MM and MR were late de-commits. People call the JHS one short but he was committed for a full year before he enrolled in the school. 
 

Without Ware this team was sub .500, with some horrific early losses, and Woody would probably be fired. Full stop. Army, FGCU and Morehead are losses without Ware. 
 

What I will be watching for next is the center. I suspect Woody lands another high level starting center (we’ve showed their development and commitment to pounding the ball inside). If (when) that happens the reality of the situation will be clear— MR and MM are entrenched as 4/3 despite being out of position and history repeats itself. Then, to have any chance of sniffing the upper half of the conference we HAVE to land a dynamic PG/CG that can create and score off the bounce and shoot the 3. Woodys offense does not work without it. We’ve seen it. At its best with JHS creating his own shot, or good X slashing. And we know what the ceiling is. Sorry for the long winded regurgitation of your thoughts. 
 

Fire the guy better at recruiting in March than having his team playing basketball games in March. 

It’s because we saw the same thing happen last year. MM was the #10 recruit, McDonald’s all American. We then finish 10-10 in a very mediocre Big 10 and miss the tournament. Tucker is the #20 recruit, McDonald’s all American. Will we better next year? Maybe. Ware is gone, and without him we probably win a dozen games max last year. 

As I said before, we’ll probably buy enough ‘talent’ to keep the pumpers pumping during the offseason. It’s already starting. But come November they’re still gonna be coached by Mediocre Mike. 

[Stuhoo 83,430]

5 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

If Tucker, Galloway, or Leal want to announce how much they got then they can but I won't spoil their payday by saying it but if you don't think they didn't get a raise then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean it's on record on a message board from one of the people who run a NIL collective saying they got a raise.

I'm not a fan of begrudging Leal or Galloway for getting a solid NIL raise upon return to IU:

1. It's a free market -- I don't really think anyone questions whether Leal and Gallo should say "yes" to the best deal possible.
2. (and more importantly) With a $6 million-ish NIL budget, bumping those two from (maybe) $100 k to $250k is a drop in the bucket that in no way will effect our ability to maximize the roster. Because these days? NIL is a real world thing that is used to maximize a roster. 

[Chris007 48,936]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

I'm not a fan of begrudging Leal or Galloway for getting a solid NIL raise upon return to IU:

1. It's a free market -- I don't really think anyone questions whether Leal and Gallo should say "yes" to the best deal possible.
2. (and more importantly) With a $6 million-ish NIL budget, bumping those two from (maybe) $100 k to $250k is a drop in the bucket that in no way will effect our ability to maximize the roster. Because these days? NIL is a real world thing that is used to maximize a roster. 

I would tell my kid to take it every day and twice on Sunday. But the whole prove to me they got a raise thing is getting out of hand. How many NIL deals have ever been released? 

[Golfman25 5,996]

19 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

We're going to need to pull out all the stops to get Hickman. He has 2-3 teams ahead of us because of our offense right now. He is taking our visit this weekend to come home and see family, probably to find out how much we are willing to pay but Nebraska and Cincy are both in front of us along with Kansas. 

That's one of the problems when you have to announce you have a bunch of money to spend to save your coach. Every prospect puts IU on their list to try to get more money. But you have to play the hand you're dealt. 

That is the problem the sunshine pumpers are ignoring.  Other than money, What makes IU an attractive place to play? You know what the offense looks like. And You’re signing up for a rebuild that you have zero idea who’s going to be there.  If you have other options why not take them.  

[Chris007 48,936]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

That is the problem the sunshine pumpers are ignoring.  Other than money, What makes IU an attractive place to play? You know what the offense looks like. And You’re signing up for a rebuild that you have zero idea who’s going to be there.  If you have other options why not take them.  

Well so far we have recruited guys from Indiana so I guess are sales pitch is to come home to Indiana and represent your state. We have playing time to offer, a boatload of money and your family and friends will be close by. 

[IUFAN1976 4,061]

5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

That is the problem the sunshine pumpers are ignoring.  Other than money, What makes IU an attractive place to play? You know what the offense looks like. And You’re signing up for a rebuild that you have zero idea who’s going to be there.  If you have other options why not take them.  

The toxic fans!

[Class of '66 Old Fart 86,691]

I would never think to ask any of you how much money you made last year or to post copies of your tax returns for all of btb to see.  Yet there seems to be a fair number of btb posters who feel any player who's receiving NIL money has an obligation to divulge that number.  NIL dollars were donated and the donors knew in advance what the money would be used for and that the individual donor was not going to be consulted on how much to pay player A or B.  I feel pretty certain we have NIL donors on btb.  Donors that don't like how the dollars are spent this year will simply reduce or cease future contributions.  

[IUc2016 7,121]

Where are all these sunshine pumpers I keep hearing about? 

[Chris007 48,936]

3 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Where are all these sunshine pumpers I keep hearing about? 

My answer would be all over social media, a few in some other threads and now even showing up in the Fire Mike Woodson thread. :-)

[Herotime 858]

5 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Where are all these sunshine pumpers I keep hearing about? 

You could start here and the replies..

 

 

[Stuhoo 83,430]

2 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Where are all these sunshine pumpers I keep hearing about? 

I think I am one! 

I never waivered from "Dusty not Woody in 2024"  and "no Woody in 2025," but I am also genuinely happy at the prospect of Tucker, and potentially Perkins, Conwell, etc. 

Maybe I'm a "party sunny with a chance of heavy storms" guy?

[IUc2016 7,121]

6 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

My answer would be all over social media, a few in some other threads and now even showing up in the Fire Mike Woodson thread. :-)

Is it okay to want Woodson gone yesterday,  but still be excited about the potential players coming in next year? Who gives a rats you know what about how much we pay them. It’s been happening for decades.
 

I won’t speak for social media because it’s a dreadful place. I’m not on it. But for message boards, it appears everyone is still anti-woody, but intrigued by roster potential next year. 

[IUCrazy2 2,576]

11 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

I would never think to ask any of you how much money you made last year or to post copies of your tax returns for all of btb to see.  Yet there seems to be a fair number of btb posters who feel any player who's receiving NIL money has an obligation to divulge that number.  NIL dollars were donated and the donors knew in advance what the money would be used for and that the individual donor was not going to be consulted on how much to pay player A or B.  I feel pretty certain we have NIL donors on btb.  Donors that don't like how the dollars are spent this year will simply reduce or cease future contributions.  

Frankly, I think the kids are state employees and whatever money they are getting funneled should be public record.  And save me the idea that the collectives are private entities.  The biggest ones are IU directed work around to funnel money to players.  Our former AD runs one of them.

Nothing would ever come of it but IMO they are basically taking gifts that would be illegal for other government employees to take.

[Chris007 48,936]

5 minutes ago, Herotime said:

You could start here and the replies..

 

 

I have a hard time following this guy on twitter because he changes his name so much. 

[Home Jersey 10,410]

7 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

I would never think to ask any of you how much money you made last year or to post copies of your tax returns for all of btb to see.  Yet there seems to be a fair number of btb posters who feel any player who's receiving NIL money has an obligation to divulge that number.  NIL dollars were donated and the donors knew in advance what the money would be used for and that the individual donor was not going to be consulted on how much to pay player A or B.  I feel pretty certain we have NIL donors on btb.  Donors that don't like how the dollars are spent this year will simply reduce or cease future contributions.  

Generally agree, but understand the speculation. As Stu said: 

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

The game has now been "professionalized." With that fact, rather than scour the country for 100% mercenaries, we apparently are focusing in a real way on players that are more likely to play for IU because of their connection to their home state.

It's the age-old discussion about whether we should give bonus points to in-state kids; in this case we apparently believe we will get a better return on recruiting investment by doing so.

The lack of regulation in the landscape and de facto "professionalization" of CBB makes it more similar to the NBA in the financial aspect, i.e. fans have a rooting interest in how their organization manages their budget/payroll. Right now, player pay comes in the form of donations, but as you said... if donors don't like how the dollars are spent, they will reduce or cease future contributions. This model is not sustainable. In the absence of a better one, when fans of a big program are struggling, scrutiny on everything is inevitable.

Is it fair to the kid to speculate? In poor taste? Everyone will have different opinions. Today, just comes with the pay check, IMO. Think there should be a better model... we probably all do. Not sure what that ultimately ends up looking like though. 

[JF87 1,717]

I'm in the fire Mike camp, but I'm going to defend him a little on buying players.  Coach Woodson is the only IU coach to operate in the NIL era.  IU and all schools are learning and adjusting to the new reality. A lot of old school fans (like me) don't like that there currently seems to be no rules governing NIL.  For many of us, building a team by being the highest bidder for a talented player still seems sleazy even though it is legal, and the NCAA has little power to rein it in. It's possible that coach Woodson is being unfairly criticized because we associate him with a new recruiting reality that we don't like.  There are several good reasons to fire Mike Woodson, but I'm not sure using NIL money to buy a team is his fault.  It's just the new reality of college basketball. 

[Chris007 48,936]

9 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Is it okay to want Woodson gone yesterday,  but still be excited about the players coming in next year? 
 

I won’t speak for social media because it’s a dreadful place. I’m not on it. But for message boards, it appears everyone is still anti-woody, but intrigued by roster potential next year. 

I agree with that. I mean he's going to be our coach next season and I'm going to root for IU. But it seems to me the ones who are still vocal about not wanting Woodson as a coach are being talked about, picked on, and attacked a little more because we are not sunshine and roses. I've definitely felt it myself in the last month or so. I mean if you step out of this thread and say anything about Woodson you're told to get back in your place and now even here we are getting it. 

Also @Stuhoo is definitely  a sunshine pumper. :-) But he's OK in my book, most of the time

[68Hoosier 665]

 

Pumping out some sunshine this morning..... 

 

PS - fire Woodson.  

[IUc2016 7,121]

5 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I agree with that. I mean he's going to be our coach next season and I'm going to root for IU. But it seems to me the ones who are still vocal about not wanting Woodson as a coach are being talked about, picked on, and attacked a little more because we are sunshine and roses. I've definitely felt it myself in the last month or so. I mean if you step out of this thread and say anything about Woodson you're told to get back in your place and now even here we are getting it. 

Also @Stuhoo is definitely  a sunshine pumper. :-) But he's OK in my book, most of the time

Gotcha. I think there have been times where the shots at woody have derailed legitimate discussion in other threads and that’s what gets annoying. Just because we want to discuss a player and how much we want them at IU does not equal wanting woody back. It’s just reality that he will be back.
 

And some people don’t grasp that and derail a thread. But for crying out loud… FIRE MIKE WOODSON