Soon to RETIRE Coach Woodson Thread

[Bowhunter 2,740]

Wish there was a way to work out a deal with May and retain Woody in a different role. That probably sounds dumb but it would be a win win with recruiting, keeping Malik, and others, and hopefully landing 24 and 25 recruits.Woody could still be a part of getting us back to where he wants us to be. Everybody gets paid!

[Josh 12,777]

1 hour ago, SamIam said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the buyouts are generally paid out of specific donor funds, right? 

They have been, but they don't have to be

[SamIam 688]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I’m telling you Dusty has had more years to build something, in a crappy conference and he isn’t ready for this level. That if you think Woodson has failed, lord help May when he can’t get the level of talent many of you think he will be able to. Talent matters more in the bigger conferences and pure X/Os is not enough.  He would be able to over a few years but it would be a slow climb and not something his coaching acumen can make up for. I mean, the guy has 4 terrible losses this year. You can say by small margin but you also chose to ignore his slight victories. One would think a coaching savant wouldn’t lose those games. Brad Stevens wouldn’t have. 

To @rcs29 - yes, the IU job is harder. When everyone still expects RMK level results or in some cases, even better. By year 3 or 4. Say you don’t? First year not making the tourney and guy is worst coach to ever live. Get him out. Would be same with May. Rinse and repeat. 

At end of the day, there are better options than him and waiting for them is the smarter choice. Too many of you argue in absolutes. Woody may not be the guy but no need to rush into this. This idea of “wasting a year” doesn’t matter if you get it wrong again. 

Lol you're just sayin stuff with absolutely nothing to back it up though. You invalidate anything good May has done by saying its a fluke or a close win, but treat the close losses like gospel. By your standard, Woodson got lucky by pulling out close games vs Army, FGCU, Morehead, Etc. 

We already know what Dusty May's teams look like when he "can't get a high level of talent," his classes have been ranked 179, 110, 108, and 168 over the last 4 years. And the 168 was the class with Davis and Martin. It's almost like a good coach is able to identify players for their system and develop them. What does May do without a high level of talent? He wins. If he goes to Final Fours with a bunch of unranked guys, what do you think he could do with some 3 stars?

And funny you should mention Brad Stevens, because the last time Butler made the title game their worst loss was to Kenpom #252 Youngstown St. FAU's worse loss this year just happens to be #252 FGCU, so it seems like that is exactly the kind of game a "coaching savant" like Stevens would lose. 

[Alford Bailey 12,445]

Woodson is playing to our strengths. The two best players on the roster are bigs. You want the offense to feature Cupps or Galloway? Blame him for the roster makeup but not how he uses the talent on hand. Some of you forget all the praise Woodson received in using JHS last year.

[SamIam 688]

6 minutes ago, SamIam said:

We already know what Dusty May's teams look like when he "can't get a high level of talent," his classes have been ranked 179, 110, 108, and 168 over the last 4 years.

Also 3 of Stevens' 4 recruiting classes before the most recent 2011 FF run were ranked top 70 on 247. So by that metric at least May is doing this with way less talent than this board's favorite candidate.  

[Unexpectedflash 1,131]

Who knows dusty could very well be an elite recruiter here. There’s no way to tell one way or the other. Kids want to play in a system that is fun and will maximize their strength. Even Archie who had a terrible offensive system and doesn’t seem like the most personable guy got a top 10 class. Every new coach here will most likely get the new coach recruiting bump and it’s up to them to take advantage of that so they continue to get talent. 

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

10 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I was already on the May train but this just solidifies it. Maybe instead of getting Brad Stevens, we get the next Brad Stevens

I would encourage anyone who wants us to play fast and shoot threes but doesn’t want Dusty May to read the article.  I would also encourage anyone that doesn’t want Dusty May because he is not always jumping up and down on the sidelines to read the article.  
 

He is going to get a job somewhere if he wants it or he could choose to stay where he is.  He will have a lot of options.  The job he really covets isn’t open yet.

[Uspshoosier 47,469]

38 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

At end of the day, there are better options than him and waiting for them is the smarter choice. Too many of you argue in absolutes.

lol see the irony here.    There are better options than him and waiting is the smarter choice (in your opinion)but to someone else they might think he is the best option which is your right and whoever thinks he is the best options right.  Only siths deal in absolutes 

[JF87 1,717]

4 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

You do realize it is 100% a factual statement. You can say guys are soft. Sure, I guess. But that is also flawed thinking in itself. 

Let’s say there were 10 high talent level guards as options in portal. They can go to IU where they compete for minutes or… get this, they can go to Baylor, Tenn, Arizona, Kansas, UNC, etc where they have a wide open hole for them to take. Oh and they are better programs over last 15 years. 
 

Then, I am a mid level talent. I can go and get bench minutes, hope I can beat those guys out or I can go to a solid program with a starter role. 

Every last guy from Trilly, Goodman, Ant Wright, Rob Cassidy etc all the guys who know recruits, portal, AAU guys etc. all said this is why guys didn’t come here. 

I believe this is correct and I don't blame Woodson for this.  Part of building a program and culture is players developing each year and earning minutes.  Galloway, and to a lesser extent, Johnson have progressed in their time under Woodson.  Would it be right to promise a guard would start without letting Johnson or Galloway a chance to compete?  I applaud Woodson if he told portal guards they would have to compete for the position.  Young players need to know that they can earn playing time and that another player won't be handed minutes ahead of them because they are perceived to be better.  It's disappointing that we missed on guards, but I think establishing a culture of earning minutes is vital.  

[jepwatso 204]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

lol see the irony here.    There are better options than him and waiting is the smarter choice (in your opinion)but to someone else they might think he is the best option which is your right and whoever thinks he is the best options right.  Only siths deal in absolutes 

I don't know. I'm not a sith but I had a lot of absolutes in college. Usually with orange juice.

[JF87 1,717]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

We finished with a 5.6 million dollar surplus for the 2023 year. It's a paywall

https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/story/sports/college/iu/2024/02/13/indiana-athletic-department-2023-financial-report-scott-dolson-five-million-surplus-revenues-expense/72566399007/?fbclid=IwAR1HQ18-ncrrMkxtf6OtCj55EEIXpCsF7dNKsUdvIcTx81w2q9zKKnWW9x8

Must have been a fun junket to Vegas! LOL

[Golfman25 5,990]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I think Mgbako family wanted him to play the 3 and I think we promised we would play him at the 3. Not saying it's correct just clarifying we told them that he would be a 3. I believe Kansas promised that too, not saying Self would have kept his word. 

WTF.  So the family is going to dictate to 40 year NBA coach what his best position is.  For all of Woodson's faults, he can provide guidance regarding the NBA.   Hard freaking pass on the inmate's parents running the asylum.  

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

5 hours ago, Hoozr said:

Long time reader, first time poster. I know it has been said that May has a clause in his contract that he could take IU job (and his buyout is low, relatively speaking). Say he is offered a big time job (U of L, OSU, etc), they would be unlikely to put a clause like that in there and his buyout would likely be enormous for the first few years. If we do move on from Woody after next year, that could be a non-starter for getting him here any time soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good first post.  I think he will get offers, probably several.  I also think he is happy where he is and knows full well the situation at IU and could simply choose to stay at FAU one more year and wait to see if the one job he really wants becomes open.

[AZ Hoosier 8,442]

1 hour ago, Bowhunter said:

Wish there was a way to work out a deal with May and retain Woody in a different role. That probably sounds dumb but it would be a win win with recruiting, keeping Malik, and others, and hopefully landing 24 and 25 recruits.Woody could still be a part of getting us back to where he wants us to be. Everybody gets paid!

I'd love that... it would be a best case solution... but Woodson still acts like he's the savior of the program... I can't see a scenario where Woodson relinquishes full control of whatever he deems his "realm" for anybody... he just doesn't demonstrate that he has the ability or the energy to do what needs to be done... so we get excuses and platitudes (young team, injuries, get back to work, get 'em over the hump", etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam... )

Bring in Dusty and give Woodson the "Matta role" (Director of BB Operations) title... let him run a drill or two in practice... and he could even be the guy that gets to elbow Armond Hill to keep him awake during the games.

[SamIam 688]

7 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Did you really just say 

“If this was one down year and injury riddled it would be different” - what? You serious Clark? Can’t even believe we are arguing this now.

It is one down year. They finished 2nd last year and back to tourney year 1. Then you will say it was all TJD. So all May’s wins are due to Jonnell I guess.  Funny thing is I think it was JHS and Kopp and TJD/Race is not much different than Ware/Malik.

Injuries - really?, Ware missing huge games. X being out twice for most of season has changed everything. I can’t believe we still have fans who don’t realize how important that guy was. Not arguing we shouldn’t have had a backup. Or his “character” which isn’t even the point. Just simply it was massive for results and affected everything. 

I never said it was all due to TJD. You are correct this is one down year so far. The issue is that CMW has shown no willingness to adapt his system at all. This offseason he will try to bring in DQ to play 2 bigs again, despite MR getting killed trying to guard fours just like Race did. He says now, and he said last year that we shoot enough threes despite being 350+ in attempts both years. And what happened last year when we faced someone playing modern basketball? They ran us out of the gym. Zona. Iowa. PSU. Miami. Kansas. In year one and two, it was easy to say that Woody was just running that system out of necessity because he had the best center in basketball. But this year he went out and chose his team, and we are playing the same. That argument no longer stands, this is how he wants to play, and his interviews back this up. 

So yes, with elite talent, his system can work. But it is working in spite of the system not because of it. It's not efficient offensive basketball, to say nothing of the concerning defensive trends.  I would love to be proven wrong. But I have seen nothing to suggest I will be. Do you have anything that suggests we will play different next year?

You say I'm making up stuff, I'm the only one who's brought anything to support my points vs "May isn't the one."  Since we keep talking about "all the other flame outs," can you at lease name one other guy who's had the level of success of Dusty, at a program that has historically done nothing, who has subsequently flamed out as a coach after? Since I'm sure you can't, here's a brief list:

'06 George Mason: Larranaga

'13 FGCU: Andy Enfield

'18 Loyola Chi: Porter Moser

Larranaga has had a long and successful career. 2 FF's, and Elite 8, and 2 Sweet Sixteens. Moser is probably too early to tell but he has a top 25 KP team and an over .500 record in the toughest conference in the country right now. The closest I can find to making your argument is Andy Enfield for FGCU. As a 15 seed, he enjoyed much less regular season success than May, and it was not sustained past 1 season. Plus, he only made the Sweet Sixteen not the Final Four. And despite being the closest person on this list to matching your argument, he still has an Elite 8 at the Power 5 level.

Woody is 65. The end of his tenure is coming soon, on his terms our ours. You say give him another year. Given the recruiting trajectory, I'm not comfortable handing the '25 class to Purdue with another year of CMW. May might be the guy, he might not be, I've seen enough FAU to be confident in my assessment, but only time will tell. I'm also sure that you don't know enough to just say "May is not the guy."

It should be fairly obvious by now that I love a good debate lol. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, but if you are going to, I just ask you bring literally any modicum of evidence

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

1 hour ago, Bowhunter said:

Wish there was a way to work out a deal with May and retain Woody in a different role. That probably sounds dumb but it would be a win win with recruiting, keeping Malik, and others, and hopefully landing 24 and 25 recruits.Woody could still be a part of getting us back to where he wants us to be. Everybody gets paid!

I don’t see Woody wanting to stick around for any role other than head coach.  I do however, think that if the right voices get to him and tell him that getting Dusty May this year is the ‘bridge’ he was referring to when he was hired that he would be willing to start enjoying his retirement.

[AZ Hoosier 8,442]

57 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Woodson is playing to our strengths. The two best players on the roster are bigs. You want the offense to feature Cupps or Galloway? Blame him for the roster makeup but not how he uses the talent on hand. Some of you forget all the praise Woodson received in using JHS last year.

Ok, but his first two years he had TJD and Race... so he was forced to play a style that he said wasn't his first choice... so between season 2 and 3, he brings in Ware and Sparks to go with Reneau, and magically, he has constructed a roster that is geared towards the two bigs, just like his first two seasons... but in year three he doesn't have the guard (JHS) to drive it... 

Reminds me of a quote from Abraham Lincoln: "a hypocrite is the man who murdered his parents, and then pleaded for mercy on the grounds that he was an orphan.”

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

1 hour ago, Alford Bailey said:

Woodson is playing to our strengths. The two best players on the roster are bigs. You want the offense to feature Cupps or Galloway? Blame him for the roster makeup but not how he uses the talent on hand. Some of you forget all the praise Woodson received in using JHS last year.

It took him almost all year to #Free Leal.  The realtor has won him two games.
 

I’m only half kidding, but after Gunn lit it up in garage time against Purdue Woody could give him big minutes next game and forget about Leal.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,740]

1 hour ago, Ngw7183 said:

Man, tough to argue with someone who doesn’t think or know for a fact that those guys talk directly to the recruits. Tipton is another one. It isn’t a rumor. The have directly said that multiple times. Hell, even logic says this.

why come to IU who has sucked and even “potentially” have to compete when I can go to Arizona, UNC, Kansas, Tenn, Baylor with a better team and wide open spot. All those teams took a guard we went after. Doesn’t even make any sense why you would want to go to IU. Go where there is playing time. What upside was there for them to choose IU?  

Yeah, I am sure guys like Knecht would have folded come crunch time. Come on. It is called making a smart decision. 

Knecht went to a team that returned Zeigler, Vescovi and Jordan-James. Miles better that X, Galloway, and (empty spot at the 3 begging to be filled with a guy like Dalton Knecht)

[IUFAN1976 4,061]

3 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Each time I watch that game Im still not sure how they pulled that win out.   LSU was the better team on that night 

Out coached!