Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Dave from Dayton 3,078]

31 minutes ago, bird4par said:

If IU hadn't hired AM, tO$U would have.

That is my perspective, too.

I was surprised that IU hired Archie Miller.  He was on my list but not in the top five.  

OSU might have supported Archie Miller more than what I perceived as setting Archie Miller up to fail.  (Since that time Dolson and IU has learned a little about how to support a head coach.)  

Did Coach Cig bring a batch of players from JM?  Yes.  

Was Archie Miller allowed to bring his PG from Dayton?  No.

Could Coach Cig make sure that some players did not come back?  Probably.

Could Archie Miller get rid of certain players that were not performing all of the time and had issues?  No.

Was Coach Cig allowed to search all over for players to fill needs?  Yes.

Was Archie Miller allowed to go anywhere and get anyone to fill needs?  No.  He had to recruit Indiana first.

And there was the grade/turnover issue, too.

And money for staff.

Which is better?  Pack-line defense?  Or Nail-slot-rim defense?   Ans:  Neither...unless you have talented players that buy in to the program and the process.

Archie Miller had that at Dayton.  Not allowed to at IU...at first.  Then it was too late.  Fans chewed on the coach and players.  It was toxic.

This is getting toxic, too.

 

[maxwell 584]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

 I know Kathie comes from a good place 

Meaning she is actually in or somewhat close to the admin of the athletic department and is not a coach/relative posing as and administrative employee? I'm struggling to understand why an administrative person would make so many comparisons to former coaches/"so called coaches". Why is this important if their objective is to enlighten a forum on how the administration & key players operate?

[ap2345 7,638]

12 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

We haven’t had the right guy leading the program. 

Well that's what happens when you make terrible hires. 

[Chris007 43,754]

1 minute ago, maxwell said:

Meaning she is actually in or somewhat close to the admin of the athletic department and is not a coach/relative posing as and administrative employee? I'm struggling to understand why an administrative person would make so many comparisons to former coaches/"so called coaches". Why is this important if their objective is to enlighten a forum on how the administration & key players operate?

I think she is trying to show how the process works or has worked in the past. I have had a lot of private conversations with Cathy and I think were all on the same page, just have different views or ways to how to get there. She has been around this program for a long time as most of us had. 

[JSHoosier 20,018]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

I think she is trying to show how the process works or has worked in the past. I have had a lot of private conversations with Cathy and I think were all on the same page, just have different views or ways to how to get there. She has been around this program for a long time as most of us had. 

That's fine, but then bad hire after bad hire after bad hire says the process isn't working. After 25 years of being largely irrelevant, seems like someone needs to take a close look at the process.

[Chris007 43,754]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

That's fine, but then bad hire after bad hire after bad hire says the process isn't working. After 25 years of being largely irrelevant, seems like someone needs to take a close look at the process.

I totally agree with this. I think that is why some people are saying Dolson finally has some leverage because he's coming off a great hire. But I also remember Scott telling me that Kevin Wilson was going to change the football program forever. He kind of did, but not in the way we wanted. KW did make us act like a real football program. 

[MikeRoberts 6,969]

2 hours ago, IUHoosierJoe said:

I would argue that Dolson is most qualified on that list, perhaps by far.  No, he hasn’t been an AD for a long time, but he’s worked in the IU athletic departments for decades, has seen many coaches come and go, and has certainly learned a lot as to why some coaches have succeeded and others have failed.  And I think he used that knowledge to make an incredible football hire, something numerous other IU athletic directors have not been able to do.  Would you agree with that?

No, based on what she has said, Dolson doesn’t have the authority to make hires. The Cig hire was a stakeholder decision, not his.

[Hoosier DaDa 2,291]

20 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

The Hoosier Hysterics are dishing in a major major way from the vantage point of the access they used to have. Like them or hate them, I don't think the hate has been based on them being liars. And they are firing away with all cannons. Brian Evans is teeing it up for them to pile on.

Some highlights (lowlights?) re what they say about Woody?

• Woody had nothing against Matta personally, but shut him out of staff meetings
• Woody has banned players and staff from talking to the Hoosier Hysterics, but players and staff talk to them anyway
• Woody has a complete dis-interest in recruiting. Nickname among high school and AAU coaches? "Bigfoot" - known but never seen.
• Woody and Ya had an actual, legit fistfight during which Woody called Ya a 'beeyotch' as they were separated during a staff meeting.
• Woody had to ask Mark Adams what Flory/Kory Bidunga's name was during the one and only meeting Woody had with Adams about Bidunga.
• When Woody goes to football games he sits in a sky box, never with basketball recruits.
• Woody had a boys club cigar and wine outing when he also had a portal recruit dinner scheduled - Woody told the attendees he would have to leave at 7:00. When it was 7:00 they were having tons of fun. Woody told all that the recruit didn't make it to town and they ordered pizza. The Hysterics soon thereafter found out that the recruit was in town all along and ate dinner without Woody attending.

Whoooooo boy.

I listened to the podcast and after you listing all the lowlights it's hard to fathom that Woody has a job.  Not to mentioned how much the guy gets paid.  Seeing it on a Google search just make my stomach hurt.  I wish Woody would become "Bigfoot" soon in Bloomington.  Like Home Jersey been saying the Woodson era is one big grift.   

[8bucks 6,408]

18 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I totally agree with this. I think that is why some people are saying Dolson finally has some leverage because he's coming off a great hire. But I also remember Scott telling me that Kevin Wilson was going to change the football program forever. He kind of did, but not in the way we wanted. KW did make us act like a real football program. 

I think KW had that same swagger and certainly could have had a bigger impact but he seemed to have other demons that were bigger than his abilities to act on his goals/vision.

[cybergates 435]

13 hours ago, HoosierTrav said:

I appreciate you for engaging with the fanbase and offering insight into the administrative process at IU. I hope my response is received in the same spirit of respect and shared passion for Indiana basketball.

 

That said, I feel compelled to address the disconnect between the decision-making among IU’s stakeholders and the results we continue to see on the court. It’s not just frustration—it’s exhaustion. The objective reality is that IU basketball has been mired in mediocrity, not because the fanbase lacks patience or understanding, but because the leadership’s approach to hiring head coaches has consistently failed. This isn’t a matter of opinion; it’s supported by decades of data, results, and a national reputation that has declined steadily since our glory days.

 

Let’s address the most glaring example: Mike Woodson. After the Archie Miller debacle, the opportunity to course-correct was monumental. Instead, IU chose a coach in his 60s with zero collegiate head coaching experience. Whether this was a panic hire or a product of systemic nepotism, the result was the same—a decision that left fans questioning the judgment of those at the top. Despite being handed a roster bolstered by NIL resources and top-tier talent, the results under Coach Woodson have been underwhelming at best and disastrous at worst. If success is the metric, how can we rationally defend this hire?

 

What exacerbates the frustration is the perception of elitism among the administration. The fanbase—who live and breathe this program—feels gaslighted, as if their concerns are dismissed as emotional or uninformed. Historically, however, those concerns have been vindicated. Every time the fanbase has voiced skepticism about a coach’s viability, it has been proven correct. The cycle is maddening: fans express concern, administration defends the status quo, the coach underperforms, and we’re back to square one.

 

Coach Woodson’s tenure embodies this issue. A top-10 roster (on paper) performing well below expectations should sound alarms, not excuses. The fear that Woodson was hired because of his status as an alumnus—a seemingly un-fireable position due to optics—is not unfounded. That fear is now reinforced when stakeholders engage with fans but fail to address the root causes of the program’s stagnation: poor hires based on flawed processes.

 

IU basketball isn’t just another program—it’s a cornerstone of college basketball history. To see it handled with anything less than the utmost competence and ambition is disheartening. For the sake of the program’s future, I urge those in decision-making roles to take an honest, ego-free look at what hasn’t worked and why. The same methods will not produce different results.

 

If Scott Dolson’s process is as diligent as you claim, the time to prove it is now. Contingencies, evaluations, and processes only matter if they lead to decisions rooted in logic and aimed at winning. IU basketball deserves better. The fanbase deserves better. And it’s time for those in power to acknowledge that their current approach is not working. Let’s end the cycle and restore Indiana basketball to the powerhouse it should be.

Usually don't read this long of a post, but this was a good one. 

I encourage reading it with a Lincoln Gettysburg Address voice in your mind.

[mamasa 15,250]

19 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

I’ve been very consistent, you’re just not hearing what you want to hear. Sorry to disappoint.

No, you're not sorry to disappoint. You enjoy swinging through here and putting your "it's just the way it is" posts out there as if we're supposed to take your word at face value. You enjoy acting as if you have knowledge that you're privy to dole as you see fit. 

[IUFAN1976 2,901]

13 hours ago, HoosierTrav said:

I appreciate you for engaging with the fanbase and offering insight into the administrative process at IU. I hope my response is received in the same spirit of respect and shared passion for Indiana basketball.

 

That said, I feel compelled to address the disconnect between the decision-making among IU’s stakeholders and the results we continue to see on the court. It’s not just frustration—it’s exhaustion. The objective reality is that IU basketball has been mired in mediocrity, not because the fanbase lacks patience or understanding, but because the leadership’s approach to hiring head coaches has consistently failed. This isn’t a matter of opinion; it’s supported by decades of data, results, and a national reputation that has declined steadily since our glory days.

 

Let’s address the most glaring example: Mike Woodson. After the Archie Miller debacle, the opportunity to course-correct was monumental. Instead, IU chose a coach in his 60s with zero collegiate head coaching experience. Whether this was a panic hire or a product of systemic nepotism, the result was the same—a decision that left fans questioning the judgment of those at the top. Despite being handed a roster bolstered by NIL resources and top-tier talent, the results under Coach Woodson have been underwhelming at best and disastrous at worst. If success is the metric, how can we rationally defend this hire?

 

What exacerbates the frustration is the perception of elitism among the administration. The fanbase—who live and breathe this program—feels gaslighted, as if their concerns are dismissed as emotional or uninformed. Historically, however, those concerns have been vindicated. Every time the fanbase has voiced skepticism about a coach’s viability, it has been proven correct. The cycle is maddening: fans express concern, administration defends the status quo, the coach underperforms, and we’re back to square one.

 

Coach Woodson’s tenure embodies this issue. A top-10 roster (on paper) performing well below expectations should sound alarms, not excuses. The fear that Woodson was hired because of his status as an alumnus—a seemingly un-fireable position due to optics—is not unfounded. That fear is now reinforced when stakeholders engage with fans but fail to address the root causes of the program’s stagnation: poor hires based on flawed processes.

 

IU basketball isn’t just another program—it’s a cornerstone of college basketball history. To see it handled with anything less than the utmost competence and ambition is disheartening. For the sake of the program’s future, I urge those in decision-making roles to take an honest, ego-free look at what hasn’t worked and why. The same methods will not produce different results.

 

If Scott Dolson’s process is as diligent as you claim, the time to prove it is now. Contingencies, evaluations, and processes only matter if they lead to decisions rooted in logic and aimed at winning. IU basketball deserves better. The fanbase deserves better. And it’s time for those in power to acknowledge that their current approach is not working. Let’s end the cycle and restore Indiana basketball to the powerhouse it should be.

This is the best post I have ever read!  This sums up everything we are all trying to say!  Well done!

[Hovadipo 55,498]

44 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I totally agree with this. I think that is why some people are saying Dolson finally has some leverage because he's coming off a great hire. But I also remember Scott telling me that Kevin Wilson was going to change the football program forever. He kind of did, but not in the way we wanted. KW did make us act like a real football program. 

If KW could stay out of KW's way I think he may still be here. Your last point is a great one and while his tenure was frustrating (and fun!) it was an important handful of years.

[Redleader 174]

25 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I think KW had that same swagger and certainly could have had a bigger impact but he seemed to have other demons that were bigger than his abilities to act on his goals/vision.

He was fired from Tulsa last week after 2 years.

[Pagoda 119]

49 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I totally agree with this. I think that is why some people are saying Dolson finally has some leverage because he's coming off a great hire. But I also remember Scott telling me that Kevin Wilson was going to change the football program forever. He kind of did, but not in the way we wanted. KW did make us act like a real football program. 

Looking at Scott’s long tenure at IU and then becoming AD, he had the challenge that he had only experienced a mediocre athletic department / administration that made a bunch of bad FB and BB hires.  He never got to work with and learn from an elite athletic department before becoming AD.  Personally I give him some leeway on his mistakes (like the Allen extension).  I’m hoping he has learned and now understands what we need.  FB has been very encouraging.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,170]

I think in some ways the “hire your own” hurdle was one we needed to cross.  Imo, it probably should have been Alford years ago, although?????  

 

Hope now it’s best talent available and one that is not scared of the size of the job.  We need an intellectual type coach.  Crean seemed to fit that but didn’t have NIL and was a bit odd and manic.  He was our closest chance of nailing it.  
 

I want a coach with confidence and some swager.  I think Dusty May was a really good candidate, of course.  I don’t think he’s a top 10 coach, but he may be a top 20 coach and will see if resources catapult him. 
 

I love Pearl but his age.  I really like the basketball from Beard but I’m not sure Indiana will be willing to go that route. 

[Hornsby 1,703]

That's fine, but then bad hire after bad hire after bad hire says the process isn't working. After 25 years of being largely irrelevant, seems like someone needs to take a close look at the process.

Th fact people had to try and convince themselves Woodson could maybe work out told us all we needed to know. But at least the you gotta hire an iu guy crowd got it out of their system now.

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[coonhounds 8,871]

You think most of those people know more about basketball than Quinn?  Uh, no. Not even close. Most of them hadn’t even been ADs before we hired them.

If Quinn has been a part of the coaching hires and decisions around basketball then I am pretty sure everything knows more about basketball than him! Lol

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Hoosier DaDa 2,291]

19 hours ago, KathywithaC said:

Do you honestly believe Woodson wants his legacy to be that he helped run our storied basketball program into the ground and that, as long as he’s well paid, he’s fine? Do you really not understand that he loves IU and all it did for him? Do you really not understand the same about Buckner, who’s been associated with the University for over 50 years? I get that people are disappointed that the program hasn’t elevated to a national level, but some of the stuff mentioned here is really outlandish and nonsensical. Woodson will either get things going or he’ll get pushed out. Why is that so difficult for people to comprehend?

Yes I think so.  If half of what HH podcast states is true, and hearing his true fan BS during senior day.  He is absolutely fleecing IU.  He is doing his job. 

[IUFAN1976 2,901]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I think in some ways the “hire your own” hurdle was one we needed to cross.  Imo, it probably should have been Alford years ago, although?????  

 

Hope now it’s best talent available and one that is not scared of the size of the job.  We need an intellectual type coach.  Crean seemed to fit that but didn’t have NIL and was a bit odd and manic.  He was our closest chance of nailing it.  
 

I want a coach with confidence and some swager.  I think Dusty May was a really good candidate, of course.  I don’t think he’s a top 10 coach, but he may be a top 20 coach and will see if resources catapult him. 
 

I love Pearl but his age.  I really like the basketball from Beard but I’m not sure Indiana will be willing to go that route. 

I still think we fire MW now and hire Crean or Fife as the interim coach and then hire a coach like Dusty May or Pearl after the season.  With this roster, either Crean or Fife would do a much better job than MW