Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[bigrod 2,848]

6 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Our pieces didn't fit last year because we had zero guard play. We're at the point where we almost have too many guards. There are dozens of guard/wing combinations we can trot out next season that are all effectively better than our best combination last year. It's more than a good problem to have. 

I hope you're right.

[IUFAN1976 2,782]

9 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I'm having a hard time with even the "on paper" part. I'm not saying the roster isn't vastly improved, it definitely is, but there are just so many new pieces. Having all of them fit together with the current pieces and having minimal issues is a big ask. We had less new pieces last season and sometimes they didn't seem to fit together well into the season. Lots of new personalities and styles to expect a smooth transition in my opinion.

My biggest concerns are chemistry, leadership and coaching.  The talent is there, now it’s up to MW and staff to coach and develop the leadership so chemistry develops faster

[Schreckbagger 620]

You guys are so 

Let's play nice now.....

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[Stuhoo 79,707]

16 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I'm having a hard time with even the "on paper" part. I'm not saying the roster isn't vastly improved, it definitely is, but there are just so many new pieces. Having all of them fit together with the current pieces and having minimal issues is a big ask. We had less new pieces last season and sometimes they didn't seem to fit together well into the season. Lots of new personalities and styles to expect a smooth transition in my opinion.

Lots of teams have many, many new pieces. We have three or four of last year's starters returning (though only two of them may start this coming year). We will also be a relatively older program, adding 5th year players Goode and Hatton,  returning three of our four leading scorers, and adding two 30mpg sophs at guard. 

The reason the pieces didn't fit last year? I blame the staff - a very good front line and a terribly constructed guard rotation. That problem has been solved. 

College coaches are not just on-court coaches - they are de facto general managers for their program. A really big part of 'coaching' is roster assembly and unlike last year, we have now done that well; this is a very, very strong roster. The staff has done what it takes to win and potentially win big. Now they need to deliver. 

I don't want to quantify what success will look like; but if it's clear like last year that we did not have success? Then this coaching staff couldn't win with an optimal roster. That's conclusively bad news.

However, I believe that this coaching staff can win with a complete roster, and kudos to them for putting that roster together. Now we wait for November to see if optimistic speculation equals successful reality.

 

[Schreckbagger 620]

I'm having a hard time with even the "on paper" part. I'm not saying the roster isn't vastly improved, it definitely is, but there are just so many new pieces. Having all of them fit together with the current pieces and having minimal issues is a big ask. We had less new pieces last season and sometimes they didn't seem to fit together well into the season. Lots of new personalities and styles to expect a smooth transition in my opinion.

Nailed it!!

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[AH1971 1,446]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Lots of teams have many, many new pieces. We have three or four of last year's starters returning (though only two of them may start this coming year). We will also be a relatively older program, adding 5th year players Goode and Hatton,  returning three of our four leading scorers, and adding two 30mpg sophs at guard. 

The reason the pieces didn't fit last year? I blame the staff - a very good front line and a terribly constructed guard rotation. That problem has been solved. 

College coaches are not just on-court coaches - they are de facto general managers for their program. A really big part of 'coaching' is roster assembly and unlike last year, we have now done that well; this is a very, very strong roster. The staff has done what it takes to win and potentially win big. Now they need to deliver. 

I don't want to quantify what success will look like; but if it's clear like last year that we did not have success? Then this coaching staff couldn't win with an optimal roster. That's conclusively bad news.

However, I believe that this coaching staff can win with a complete roster, and kudos to them for putting that roster together. Now we wait for November to see if optimistic speculation equals successful reality.

 

No coach would have won consistently at the level IU plays at with last years guard play. And while that doesn't excuse the staff, they've obviously addressed it this year. 

My father was a high school basketball coach once upon a time and still reminds me from time to time that Gene Keady at a coaching clinic once said, "Good coaching accounts for about 3-4 wins a year, the rest comes from the talent surrounding you".

[Chris007 43,567]

12 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Lots of teams have many, many new pieces. We have three or four of last year's starters returning (though only two of them may start this coming year). We will also be a relatively older program, adding 5th year players Goode and Hatton,  returning three of our four leading scorers, and adding two 30mpg sophs at guard. 

The reason the pieces didn't fit last year? I blame the staff - a very good front line and a terribly constructed guard rotation. That problem has been solved. 

College coaches are not just on-court coaches - they are de facto general managers for their program. A really big part of 'coaching' is roster assembly and unlike last year, we have now done that well; this is a very, very strong roster. The staff has done what it takes to win and potentially win big. Now they need to deliver. 

I don't want to quantify what success will look like; but if it's clear like last year that we did not have success? Then this coaching staff couldn't win with an optimal roster. That's conclusively bad news.

However, I believe that this coaching staff can win with a complete roster, and kudos to them for putting that roster together. Now we wait for November to see if optimistic speculation equals successful reality.

 

[Stuhoo 79,707]

12 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Not so much. 

I think I was pretty clear... "I BLAME THE STAFF" for last year's roster construction. Roster construction is a staff responsibility. Trey Galloway was our best guard last year and it wasn't really close. Nothing against Trey, who plays his @$$ off for IU, but that is a massive staff failure.

In my opinion, we have rectified the big staff failure from last year (roster construction). Therefore I think I was again pretty clear; "if it's clear like last year that we (do) not have success? Then this coaching staff couldn't win with an optimal roster. That's conclusively bad news."

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,943]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not so much. 

I think I was pretty clear... "I BLAME THE STAFF" for last year's roster construction. Roster construction is a staff responsibility. Trey Galloway was our best guard last year and it wasn't really close. Nothing against Trey, who plays his @$$ off for IU, but that is a massive staff failure.

In my opinion, we have rectified the big staff failure from last year (roster construction). Therefore I think I was again pretty clear; "if it's clear like last year that we (do) not have success? Then this coaching staff couldn't win with an optimal roster. That's conclusively bad news."

 

I mostly agree however there were lots of coaching issues last year that wasn’t roster construction blame.  This years roster on paper looks very impressive indeed but I still want to see Rice and Carlyle in Woodys offense to believe the guard hype.  Woody has got to change a lot and hopefully this roster will allow him to finally produce competent offensive basketball.  
 

I still say not using 13 or at least not having one more competent big guy on the roster of 12 is a mistake and a huge gamble. 
 

We’ve got 3 bigs.  Luke Goode isn’t a big guy even if he plays the 4.  Mgbako seems himself as a 3 even though he’s a great 4. Our backup center is going to struggle. Ballo should be a beast and Reneau as well.  I love the 4 and 5, but if we lose Ballo things change in a hurry. 

[Stuhoo 79,707]

58 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I mostly agree however there were lots of coaching issues last year that wasn’t roster construction blame.  This years roster on paper looks very impressive indeed but I still want to see Rice and Carlyle in Woodys offense to believe the guard hype.  Woody has got to change a lot and hopefully this roster will allow him to finally produce competent offensive basketball.  
 

I still say not using 13 or at least not having one more competent big guy on the roster of 12 is a mistake and a huge gamble. 
 

We’ve got 3 bigs.  Luke Goode isn’t a big guy even if he plays the 4.  Mgbako seems himself as a 3 even though he’s a great 4. Our backup center is going to struggle. Ballo should be a beast and Reneau as well.  I love the 4 and 5, but if we lose Ballo things change in a hurry. 

And if we still have not gotten players that can win in this staff's system? Then the buck stops with Mike Woodson. Personally, I have been clear that hiring Dusty May was a uniquely good opportunity and one that I felt was worth doing. But props to the staff - they have greatly rectified the lack of guards ... I think.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,943]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

And if we still have not gotten players that can win in this staff's system? Then the buck stops with Mike Woodson. Personally, I have been clear that hiring Dusty May was a uniquely good opportunity and one that I felt was worth doing. But props to the staff - they have greatly rectified the lack of guards ... I think.

I love that Woody has some recruiting ‘Swag and Bag’ and we get to watch a lot of really talented players. The type of talent I’ve long wanted to watch in Indiana candystripes. 
 

But I also want to see fundamental basketball but even moreso, exciting basketball.  Transition play. Let it fly early on good looks. Some back cuts. Some action on off-ball screens.  Some Troy Williams-esque baseline cuts.  If i never see another pumpfake 21.5 foot 2 pointer I’d be a happy guy.  Let’s see some playmaking. 
 

Go Hoosiers!  I want Woody to win the whole damn thing 3 years straight and sail off into retirement as the GOAT.  

[IUCrazy2 2,341]

6 hours ago, Chris007 said:

This place is a shell of its former self. 

People that support Woodson are hedging their bets because they have all watched the same **** as us.  With the roster he has put together we should be thinking that we have a BIG title contender and a BIG title contender should be a team capable of doing things in March.

People are bringing up 5, 6, and 7 seeds because in the back of their mind they believe Mike Woodson is a net negative as a coach.  That isn't enough to get him fired because reasons, but it should be at the point where you question your $10+ million investment into the coach and staff (that is including NIL).  If he can't make any noise with a $6 million payroll, he should be told retire and say you got us back on track or we will fire you.

To me it is put up or shut up time.  The staff was running their mouths in social media through burner accounts.  They had people show up places like here to defend the totally awesome job they were doing.  The portal is the wave of the future we were told.  Mike just needed to get his type of players in here.  Cool.  That has happened.  Now you gotta win dude.  You came here to win titles, that doesn't happen if you are struggling your way to 6 seeds and lower.

People just covering for the fact that the job he has done to this point has been mediocre at best given the resources.  And all this stupid @$$ comparing to past coaches is beyond dumb.  No other coach at Indiana has ever had a multimillion dollar payroll to fill out his roster.  There is no comparison.

[IUCrazy2 2,341]

6 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Let’s keep it simple for you. Say Mike Woodson leads IU to a 7 seed and a loss in the second round. Should that result in him being fired? 

Yes.

[IUCrazy2 2,341]

4 hours ago, bigrod said:

I'm having a hard time with even the "on paper" part. I'm not saying the roster isn't vastly improved, it definitely is, but there are just so many new pieces. Having all of them fit together with the current pieces and having minimal issues is a big ask. We had less new pieces last season and sometimes they didn't seem to fit together well into the season. Lots of new personalities and styles to expect a smooth transition in my opinion.

Nah, you don't get to make that argument.  Mike Woodson's mouthpieces have been all over social media and message boards saying THIS is the plan.  THIS is going to make us title contenders and they were just ahead of all of us with their brilliance.  You don't get to do that on one hand and then come back talking about too many new pieces.  All these new pieces were considered to be the design, not a flaw in it.

[TTT 895]

Who is the better coach?  Mike Woodson or Indiana Fever coach Christie Sides…who is just horrible and any time she talks probably gives individual players and team as a whole a headache because nothing feverish ever happens.

[HinnyHoosier 4,773]

+ Archie Miller Assessment?

My Lord we really are hell-bent on annihilating this dead horse.

 

 

[Hornsby 1,651]

The expectations the pumpers are putting out do not align with how they’re characterizing this off-season, I.e., that Woodson did so awesome and knocked it our of the park. The expectations should be a 1, 2, or, at worst, a 3 seed. They don’t want to set the expectations too high, though, because they know Woodson isn’t a good enough coach to meet high expectations. So, they temper them so they can then turn around and advocate for keeping Woodson next year because hey, he set the mediocre expectations we set. 

So wait killed it in the offseason top class but expectations should be tempered? Shouldn't top classes expect to be top 4 seeds minimum in the ncaa?

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[AH1971 1,446]

5 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

So wait killed it in the offseason top class but expectations should be tempered? Shouldn't top classes expect to be top 4 seeds minimum in the ncaa?

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Who is tempering expectations?

[Schreckbagger 620]

People that support Woodson are hedging their bets because they have all watched the same **** as us.  With the roster he has put together we should be thinking that we have a BIG title contender and a BIG title contender should be a team capable of doing things in March.

People are bringing up 5, 6, and 7 seeds because in the back of their mind they believe Mike Woodson is a net negative as a coach.  That isn't enough to get him fired because reasons, but it should be at the point where you question your $10+ million investment into the coach and staff (that is including NIL).  If he can't make any noise with a $6 million payroll, he should be told retire and say you got us back on track or we will fire you.

To me it is put up or shut up time.  The staff was running their mouths in social media through burner accounts.  They had people show up places like here to defend the totally awesome job they were doing.  The portal is the wave of the future we were told.  Mike just needed to get his type of players in here.  Cool.  That has happened.  Now you gotta win dude.  You came here to win titles, that doesn't happen if you are struggling your way to 6 seeds and lower.

People just covering for the fact that the job he has done to this point has been mediocre at best given the resources.  And all this stupid @$$ comparing to past coaches is beyond dumb.  No other coach at Indiana has ever had a multimillion dollar payroll to fill out his roster.  There is no comparison.

Conspiracy theories at their best. Burner accounts LMAO. Hedging bets. LMAO. Gotta love reading this crapola. "Who's on first?" type funny stuff. Thanks.

 

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[HoosierHoopster 6,811]

33 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

+ Archie Miller Assessment?

My Lord we really are hell-bent on annihilating this dead horse.

 

 

Yes yes but he was the best coach ever!!

CAM is the GOAT! Better than RMK? Yes!! No one can say otherwise he was sooo great!!

There, that should settle it.