Fire Coach Woodson + Assessment of Former Posters

[Golfman25 4,795]

47 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

While an assistant at Iowa, he recorded a recruit (being recruited by Illinois) where he basically admitted that he had received impermissible benefits (a truck I believe). The incident resulted in Illinois basically getting a slap on the wrist (I think 1 year post season ban) and Pearl basically painted a huge target on his back for fellow coaches because he essentially "snitched" is my understanding.

So it's no surprise he'd get dinged years later for something silly as a BBQ. People have long memories

Which in today's day and age are all BFDS.  Guys walking around with 6&7 figures.  They can buy their own car and don't need the coach to feed them.  :)    

[Chris007 42,431]

6 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

So if things are this far along what do you think Woodson chance are of being oach next season@Chris007

 

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I have no idea let's say 50/50. But this is all work that Dolson should be doing before the end of the season. So he can sit down with Woodson, staff, players, BoT, Whitten and discuss all options. 

[Chris007 42,431]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I know we're all just posting opinions and thoughts and the potential coach discussion can get our interest going more now than what the rest of the season looks like, but I just don't get the continued Peal discussion. Fun coach to watch. No way in Hell IU hires him, just dead in the water. 

So who do you want to talk about? Which coach has gathered this much smoke? 

[Trish 11,417]

Bruce isn't #1 on my list, but he's better than Woodson. He would kill it at Indiana I think. My list is the following.

 

1 - Brad ******* Stevens

2 - Dan Hurley

3- Dusty 

4 - Shaka Smart

5 - Pearl

[AH1971 1,055]

8 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I don't mean to be confrontational but it rubs me the wrong way that you keep making reference to BP not being a "good man" 

Chris Facial Hair we can all, for the most part, agree is a "bad" man. I certainly think he is and would not want him here.

Bruce Pearl's "trouble" is from ages ago with a now impotent NCAA.

The one semi "serious" issue connected to Pearl (bribery charges) were not even tied to him directly (an assistant was charged). Not only was that essentially industry standard way of operating... but there is no longer a need for that sort of stuff with NIL. You could reasonably argue his program is cleaner in today's context than Roy Williams' ever was - those kids weren't taking actual classes. They were made up and entirely on paper! And guess what... I don't think Roy Williams is a "bad" man either. 

So is Bruce Pearl a bad guy for helping kids get paid, having BBQs, or recruiting when he shouldn't have been? I don't think necessarily. You can say it makes you doubt his ability to run a clean program... fine, but as has been said, it's basically all legal now. 

To assert others are okay with a "bad guy" like Bruce Pearl being HC because he broke some obscure rules is sanctimonious at best. No coach is perfect. No man is perfect. Yes there are degrees to all of this and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If someone draws their line at a coach like Bruce Pearl, after our past 20+ years, okay.. I'll keep rooting for us to catch lightning in a bottle like Knight again

I said it earlier this week, I've engaged with Bruce Pearl on multiple occasions dating back to his days at USI and "bad guy" is the last thing in the world you would use to describe Bruce Pearl. He is as real and genuine as it gets, almost to a fault. 

[Golfman25 4,795]

45 minutes ago, SamIam said:

I get where you're coming from, but I don't get this reasoning. You presuppose that you have to cheat or bend the rules to win. Coaches known for being "by the book" -  Brad Stevens, Roy Williams, Tony Bennett, Matt Painter, Jay Wright, Tom Izzo, John Beilein. 

We all want to win. I think that those of us who also want us to run a clean program with a good man as head coach also have valid points. 

What is this book you're talking about?  The landscape has changed.  It's wild wild west -- the fastest gun wins.  The rule is, there are no rules.  

[SamIam 644]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I don't mean to be confrontational but it rubs me the wrong way that you keep making reference to BP not being a "good man" 

Chris Facial Hair we can all, for the most part, agree is a "bad" man. I certainly think he is and would not want him here.

Bruce Pearl's "trouble" is from ages ago with a now impotent NCAA.

The one semi "serious" issue connected to Pearl (bribery charges) were not even tied to him directly (an assistant was charged). Not only was that essentially industry standard way of operating... but there is no longer a need for that sort of stuff with NIL. You could reasonably argue his program is cleaner in today's context than Roy Williams' ever was - those kids weren't taking actual classes. They were made up and entirely on paper! And guess what... I don't think Roy Williams is a "bad" man either. 

So is Bruce Pearl a bad guy for helping kids get paid, having BBQs, or recruiting when he shouldn't have been? I don't think necessarily. You can say it makes you doubt his ability to run a clean program... fine, but as has been said, it's basically all legal now. 

To assert others are okay with a "bad guy" like Bruce Pearl being HC because he broke some obscure rules is sanctimonious at best. No coach is perfect. No man is perfect. Yes there are degrees to all of this and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If someone draws their line at a coach like Bruce Pearl, after our past 20+ years, okay.. I'll keep rooting for us to catch lightning in a bottle like Knight again

Great post. I think you hit it on the head. We should all draw the line before Beard, but we can (and have) disagree about Pearl. To be clear, some in the fanbase have advocated for Beard but I didn't mean to insinuate that some people here wanted a bad guy. I shouldn't be passing judgment on his character, I think I mentioned a few posts ago that I am open to hearing what positive stuff everyone has to say regarding his character/ time at USI. I still would prefer that IU run a clean program, but in the age of NIL that is certainly less important than it once was. 

Overall, if our options are Pearl and May I think we are in a pretty good spot. 

[RaceToTheTop 24,098]

In terms of the Bruce Pearl/Deon Thomas dealings….it was 1988.  Thirty six years is a long enough time to let those actions go IMO regardless of which side you are on.  And at this point, I’m not sure what would actually even qualify as ‘shady’ things you can do.  It’s a different day.  Adapt to the current climate of what is accepted.

[Golfman25 4,795]

38 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

 

Fake classes or hookers would definitely be too far.

What's wrong with hookers?  Teaches this kids who are coming into money -- it's cheaper to rent.  

[Hornsby 1,630]

Just my opinion but Bruce Pearl is not IUBB. His entire coaching history is shade. I have no problem saying this having experienced him walking around campus during the golden years at USI. Dolson would be taking the biggest risk for the program should he decide to him. 

How is Woodson iu bbal? Hs recruits 5 star players from prep schools and his teams can't shoot. How is that iu?

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[coonhounds 8,694]

I have no idea let's say 50/50. But this is all work that Dolson should be doing before the end of the season. So he can sit down with Woodson, staff, players, BoT, Whitten and discuss all options. 

A bit surprised he is at 50 50. This has been horrific

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[Chris007 42,431]

1 minute ago, coonhounds said:

A bit surprised he is at 50 50. This has been horrific

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Well you are asking me a question that is almost impossible to answer. I'm not privy to that kind of info. 

[Home Jersey 5,422]

3 minutes ago, SamIam said:

Great post. I think you hit it on the head. We should all draw the line before Beard, but we can (and have) disagree about Pearl. To be clear, some in the fanbase have advocated for Beard but I didn't mean to insinuate that some people here wanted a bad guy. I shouldn't be passing judgment on his character, I think I mentioned a few posts ago that I am open to hearing what positive stuff everyone has to say regarding his character/ time at USI. I still would prefer that IU run a clean program, but in the age of NIL that is certainly less important than it once was. 

Overall, if our options are Pearl and May I think we are in a pretty good spot. 

Amen - I just think "clean" is also somewhat subjective/exists on a spectrum. I don't think anyone could point to something about Auburn today and the way he runs things there, and say it's dirty or out of line. Everyone will have a different profile for what they can tolerate. 

I'd be happy as a pig in mud with either Pearl or May. I do feel like Pearl is a bit of a long shot, even though I'd prefer him... age/optics wise with Woody, I think May is more palatable/potentially higher upside option. Some are hesitant after Archie. I appreciate that May is his own coach and his story at FAU is a lot different than CAM's at Dayton... I just feel the program needs to finally put a competitive stretch together again to solidify a foundation for the next guy to come in and build on. I am confident Pearl could get us there and more. May has a good track record too, but it's less of a known quantity.

I'm ready to move on!

[KNOBYDOX 109]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Well you are asking me a question that is almost impossible to answer. I'm not privy to that kind of info. 

Apparently you need a promotion.

[Hornsby 1,630]

A bit surprised he is at 50 50. This has been horrific

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Pretty mind blowing but that's why the program has been bad for 25 years. Horrible hires we keep way too long

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[AZ Hoosier 6,068]

9 minutes ago, Trish said:

Bruce isn't #1 on my list, but he's better than Woodson. He would kill it at Indiana I think. My list is the following.

 

1 - Brad ******* Stevens

2 - Dan Hurley

3- Dusty 

4 - Shaka Smart

5 - Pearl

Stevens is so past "NO" that there's not much point to even listing him.

Hurley is locked in at UCONN, basically in his own back yard, and he's another one that I don't see moving.

Dusty - yeah, but not sure he's at the top of any realistic list... maybe top 4-5.

Smart is a hard pass for me. Decent couple of years at Marquette, and distant history at VCU, but pretty mediocre between VCU and last year at Marquette.

Pearl is one I could get behind... hopeful, but also very guarded optimism that he actually moves from Auburn.

 

[Golfman25 4,795]

19 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I don't mean to be confrontational but it rubs me the wrong way that you keep making reference to BP not being a "good man" 

Chris Facial Hair we can all, for the most part, agree is a "bad" man. I certainly think he is and would not want him here.

Bruce Pearl's "trouble" is from ages ago with a now impotent NCAA.

The one semi "serious" issue connected to Pearl (bribery charges) were not even tied to him directly (an assistant was charged). Not only was that essentially industry standard way of operating... but there is no longer a need for that sort of stuff with NIL. You could reasonably argue his program is cleaner in today's context than Roy Williams' ever was - those kids weren't taking actual classes. They were made up and entirely on paper! And guess what... I don't think Roy Williams is a "bad" man either. The point is there is no such thing as a "clean" program. That doesn't mean the people working in them are inherently "bad"

So is Bruce Pearl a bad guy for helping kids get paid, having BBQs, or recruiting when he shouldn't have been? I don't think necessarily. You can say it makes you doubt his ability to run a clean program... fine, but as has been said, it's basically all legal now. 

To assert others are okay with a "bad guy" like Bruce Pearl being HC because he broke some obscure rules is sanctimonious at best. No coach is perfect. No man is perfect. Yes there are degrees to all of this and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If someone draws their line at a coach like Bruce Pearl, after our past 20+ years, okay.. I'll keep rooting for us to catch lightning in a bottle like Knight again

The only thing I would say, is let's not forget that the majority of these kids are there to get an education.  Most will not go pro, or have very limited careers.  They will need the education to fall back on.  By robbing a kid of that education with fake classes and such does make you a bad man. imo.  

[SamIam 644]

Do we think Pearl would be able to recruit the state? I know he has won everywhere he's been but preferably the next coach is also able to reverse the current trends with ND, PU, Butler and ISU all having serious momentum in-state.

[Hornsby 1,630]

The only thing I would say, is let's not forget that the majority of these kids are there to get an education.  Most will not go pro, or have very limited careers.  They will need the education to fall back on.  By robbing a kid of that education with fake classes and such does make you a bad man. imo.  

You think most guys on the current iu roster are there for an education and not NIL? Why is nobody ever academically ineligible anymore. The student athlete no longer exists at least nowhere near what it once was.

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[Chris007 42,431]

1 minute ago, SamIam said:

Do we think Pearl would be able to recruit the state? I know he has won everywhere he's been but preferably the next coach is also able to reverse the current trends with ND, PU, Butler and ISU all having serious momentum in-state.

Yes, he is loved by HS and AAU coaches in this state. Also, I would expect for him to have an assistant who knows the state well. Probably someone from southern Indiana who is now on the ND staff