IUBB vs Auburn (Atlanta, GA) | 12/9/2023 @ 2:00pm on ESPN2

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

7 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

We have nice players who have talent and like to win when it’s convenient. We have a coach who reps IU well and wants his players to rep the uni on/off the court. I’m really happy about this.

What we don’t have are dogs, leaders, or pieces that fit together to play in a modern system.

Glad the team isn’t making the wrong kind of headlines off the court sans XJ and Woody could be here to lead the program through these tough (?) times.

Go Hoosiers!


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Well, howdy stranger.  You come here often?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

15 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Except for Leal, sorry i had to

Leal > Gunn

 

Until Gunn actually proves otherwise.

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Leal > Gunn in Loaded Chicken's mind

 

Until Gunn actually proves otherwise overcomes Loaded Chicken's mancrush.

Fixed it for you :)

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

53 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Fixed it for you :)

In all seriousness, Gunn hasn't proved to be better than Leal. Anytime Leal has been on the floor, he's looked better than Gunn. And Gunn has his moments, but it's almost always followed up by a really bad play that negates the good.

[IU_FanClub]

So...anyone got anything positive to talk about haha? Saturday sucked but I am hoping to get out of the doom and gloom and into the light as I get pumped up for this Saturday. 

[HoosierTrav]

The fact we are arguing between Leal and Gunn just shows how flawed this roster is and really exposes how low our ceiling really is. 

[IU_FanClub]

7 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

The fact we are arguing between Leal and Gunn just shows how flawed this roster is and really exposes how low our ceiling really is. 

I think it says more about Gunn than anything. He has got to figure out how to play. He was really solid at Michigan and that's why Leal did not play in that game but we had no choice but to put Leal in on Saturday because Gunn completely lost his head from the second he checked in.

[HoosierHoopster]

40 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

In all seriousness, Gunn hasn't proved to be better than Leal. Anytime Leal has been on the floor, he's looked better than Gunn. And Gunn has his moments, but it's almost always followed up by a really bad play that negates the good.

I was just having fun with you.

But my take is that Gunn pretty clearly has better upside, as he showed against UM. Leal is a great kid by all accounts, and his floor awareness and understanding of the college game is, also by all accounts, better right now, but he doesn't play because he hasn't shown the ability to play real minutes at this level. That is what it is. Gunn is kind of like Geronimo in that he has lots of promise, the question is whether he can continue to develop his DI level floor awareness with the speed of the game - slowing things down mentally, to bring his athleticism and skill all out. That's a work in progress.

[Josh]

I got a fresh complaint for you.  I just received my Bob Knight bobbleheads today, a full week after other fans got theirs.  What the ****?  Did the football playoff committee decide who got these first?  Horrendous.

Cool bobbleheads tho.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

I got a fresh complaint for you.  I just received my Bob Knight bobbleheads today, a full week after other fans got theirs.  What the ****?  Did the football playoff committee decide who got these first?  Horrendous.

Cool bobbleheads tho.

[Hovadipo]

14 minutes ago, Josh said:

I got a fresh complaint for you.  I just received my Bob Knight bobbleheads today, a full week after other fans got theirs.  What the ****?  Did the football playoff committee decide who got these first?  Horrendous.

Cool bobbleheads tho.

My money is on the refs from Saturday.

[Josh]

10 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

My money is on the refs from Saturday.

Totally.  You know the Auburn players got their bobbleheads first.  This whole game is corrupt

[HoosierHoopster]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Totally.  You know the Auburn players got their bobbleheads first.  This whole game is corrupt

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I was just having fun with you.

But my take is that Gunn pretty clearly has better upside, as he showed against UM. Leal is a great kid by all accounts, and his floor awareness and understanding of the college game is, also by all accounts, better right now, but he doesn't play because he hasn't shown the ability to play real minutes at this level. That is what it is. Gunn is kind of like Geronimo in that he has lots of promise, the question is whether he can continue to develop his DI level floor awareness with the speed of the game - slowing things down mentally, to bring his athleticism and skill all out. That's a work in progress.

Think about being a coach and not playing a kid who will help you win and instead play a kid who isn't ready and hurts you while he's on the floor in the name of "potential." That's a bad coach.

[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Think about being a coach and not playing a kid who will help you win and instead play a kid who isn't ready and hurts you while he's on the floor in the name of "potential." That's a bad coach.

Leal helps us win? He's a safer play, but it's a stretch to say he helps us win. More like "he has less of a chance of frustrating the hell out of everyone but restricts how good we can be."

[Uspshoosier]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Think about being a coach and not playing a kid who will help you win and instead play a kid who isn't ready and hurts you while he's on the floor in the name of "potential." That's a bad coach.

Think about being a coach with an open scholly and having to play either one of them in meaningful games. Got to be a tough pill to swallow for a coach knowing he could have brought in someone else to help them.   No good answer for IU at the guards positions.   

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

13 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Leal helps us win? He's a safer play, but it's a stretch to say he helps us win. More like "he has less of a chance of frustrating the hell out of everyone but restricts how good we can be."

Yes, I think someone who understands the game more than anyone else on the team, someone who doesn't need the ball, someone who makes quick reads and passes and moves the ball(something this team can't do), someone who knows the system... Like we've been begging for dudes like Leal. To just have one. Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Virginia etc always have a guy like it and we want one. We have one and refuse to play him.

[IU_FanClub]

16 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Leal helps us win? He's a safer play, but it's a stretch to say he helps us win. More like "he has less of a chance of frustrating the hell out of everyone but restricts how good we can be."

Leal clearly was not capable of producing in any way on Saturday, however I do think he can be useful in Big Ten play this year. Us getting destroyed on Saturday has clouded a lot of judgement. There is not a team in the Big Ten that can come even close to the ball pressure we saw on Saturday and I think Leal's ability to move the ball against much less athletic teams could be valuable in spurts. This is not a good Big Ten this year we may not have shown as much as we want so far but there is a really good opportunity to stack conference wins in what is a down year/bridge year for us. The 2024 class and portal have to be much better though I think anyone with eyes can agree on that.

[Stuhoo]

7 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yes, I think someone who understands the game more than anyone else on the team, someone who doesn't need the ball, someone who makes quick reads and passes and moves the ball(something this team can't do), someone who knows the system... Like we've been begging for dudes like Leal. To just have one. Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Virginia etc always have a guy like it and we want one. We have one and refuse to play him.

What if I agree that all of your positives (as quoted from your post) about Leal are true?

• understands the game
• doesn't need the ball
• makes quick reads
• passes and moves the ball
• knows the system

But they are overtaken by the negatives:

• Lousy handle, especially for a guard
• Terrible shooter who won't shoot, even when open
• Lacking lateral quickness and speed
• Lacking straight line quickness and speed
• No jumping ability
• No playmaking ability
• Never disrupts opponents defensively

So there you have it; a great kid and teammate, and a fail-safe player that in the right circumstances won't screw things up when others might, but not a winning P5 player and with little potential to be one..

[JSHoosier]

4 minutes ago, IU_FanClub said:

Leal clearly was not capable of producing in any way on Saturday, however I do think he can be useful in Big Ten play this year. Us getting destroyed on Saturday has clouded a lot of judgement. There is not a team in the Big Ten that can come even close to the ball pressure we saw on Saturday and I think Leal's ability to move the ball against much less athletic teams could be valuable in spurts. This is not a good Big Ten this year we may not have shown as much as we want so far but there is a really good opportunity to stack conference wins in what is a down year/bridge year for us. The 2024 class and portal have to be much better though I think anyone with eyes can agree on that.

To be fair, pretty much our entire backcourt sucked out loud Saturday. Cupps was the only one to score in double figures.