Coach Curt Cignetti to INDIANA... Forever and Ever, Amen!

[Lebowski]

6 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said:

I’ll throw out a name that isn’t IU but was BIG, Darrell Hazell.  As for IU, they always go safe or on the cheap IMO.  Wilson to me was a great bold hire from a power school.  I want to be clear that Candle may rock it at IU but man the hire just doesn’t scream bold or flashy, something IU has never been over the past 75 years.

Everyone dreams about coach Hep but sadly he never got the chance to fully prove what he could be so I don’t think he is valid.  Mallory’s record at IU overall at IU isn’t great.  The fact our greatest coach has a career 46% win percentage tells me maybe it’s worth spending some extra cash on a proven coach if they can get one.  If not I’ll be the first to light a Candle in the wind and root him on.

Here's the thing though, even throwing all the money in the world at it doesn't guarantee or raise your chances of success. The most consistent thing about IUFB is how incredibly bad it's been throughout its entire history. Case in point, Mallory is considered one of the best coaches IUFB has ever had. Dolson could hire Jesus Christ himself and even he could struggle with this program. If anything, whoever is the next coach at IUFB will more than likely be fired due to lack of winning, just like every other IUFB coach throughout its entire history. Because history says so. 

The most logical thing to do however, is hiring someone that has a proven record. Someone that has had success at not only winning but has experience at building a culture of winning. It takes someone and a backing to start that culture. Unfortunately trying to hire someone like this is a giant mountain to climb because these kind of people know right away if the job is right for them. It's a two way street and these people know how to ask the right questions during the interview process. They know right away if they'll have the backing they'll need to build that culture. That's why I still think we'll end up with a coordinator when this is all said and done. And if that's the case, hopefully we end up hiring the next Barry Alvarez. 

[Golfman25]

32 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

In the portal era we are not going to win with the talent the coach can attract, because so many of those players that turn into something good will leave once they do.

Not saying we need Ohio State level NIL and facilities, but we sure as hell need more than the current Indiana level NIL and facilities. Otherwise the Sorsbys and Dasan McCulloughs will look elsewhere far too often.

That's kind of the point.  IU will never have the Michigan, OSU, Alabama, etc. recruits.  And, like you said, if we get a dude who can play at their level, he's gone.  IU's coach will need to have an adaptable system based on the team concept -- a sum total better than the individual parts.  If we get a coach that needs a 5 star QB to compete, we're doomed.  

[LamarCheeks]

12 minutes ago, GoIU8 said:

Yeah Hazell is an all time bad hire. But Purdue has been shopping in the MAC aisle for a long time, and they are a clear step above us. Hoeppner looked like he was gonna be really good who was a MAC HC. And before that our best coach was Bill Mallory who was, again, a MAC coach.

Mallory came to IU from the MAC, but he also spent five seasons at Colorado (Big 8 at the time) — so he had Power 5 experience, so to speak. Even led the Buffs to the Orange Bowl. Had a decent record in Boulder — 35-21-1.

[iuthruandthru]

7 minutes ago, GoIU8 said:

Yeah Hazell is an all time bad hire. But Purdue has been shopping in the MAC aisle for a long time, and they are a clear step above us. Hoeppner looked like he was gonna be really good who was a MAC HC. And before that our best coach was Bill Mallory who was, again, a MAC coach.

Isnt it time we rasie that bar?  The best IU football coaches don't sniff the rest of the BIGs best coaches, that's all I'm saying.  So maybe we raise the bar with this hire a little if its possible before going to Candle.  And maybe in the end he is the best option, i will live with that just fine.  I just think its time to raise the bar as the BIG is only going to get bigger and tougher.

[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

That's kind of the point.  IU will never have the Michigan, OSU, Alabama, etc. recruits.  And, like you said, if we get a dude who can play at their level, he's gone.  IU's coach will need to have an adaptable system based on the team concept -- a sum total better than the individual parts.  If we get a coach that needs a 5 star QB to compete, we're doomed.  

Not hoping to get us recruiting 5 star kids.

Hoping to make our staff, facilities, and NIL respectable, so that we can retain the three and four star kids that succeed in our program. That is not where we are currently.

[Lebowski]

1 hour ago, realTomCrean said:

Here’s a Q for you all: What is IU’s 5 year ceiling as a program? .500 and 1 year in Top 25? 

I think that depends on a number of factors. But if all things are at status quo, I'm not sure that's even the ceiling. A lot of things need to change from top to bottom. Yesterday was a start by letting TA go.

[mamasa]

[GoIU8]

4 minutes ago, mamasa said:

What support did Tom Allen have in 2019 and 2020 that he somehow didn't have from 2021-2023? 

[Golfman25]

11 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Not hoping to get us recruiting 5 star kids.

Hoping to make our staff, facilities, and NIL respectable, so that we can retain the three and four star kids that succeed in our program. That is not where we are currently.

How you going to win in the Big10 with 3 and 4 stars?  

[Lebowski]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

How you going to win in the Big10 with 3 and 4 stars?  

That's pretty much Iowa's mantra. It's been that way for a quarter century. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, GoIU8 said:

What support did Tom Allen have in 2019 and 2020 that he somehow didn't have from 2021-2023? 

That dude was on a rant yesterday blaming everyone and their brother for IU’s failures. It was Tom Allen-esque with the way it’s everyone’s fault except for Tom’s. The ‘lack of support’ isn't the reason we lost many of the games we lost. 

[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, Hoosier987 said:

We have money...and I think we need and can do better.  Leipold from Kansas would be someone I would look at...make money not an issue. 

Leipold makes about $6 million annually and currently has a $12.5 million buyout. 

So it would take Nick Saban money to bring him in. To Indiana football. 

That's a "NO."

[Hoosier987]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

Leipold makes about $6 million annually and currently has a $12.5 million buyout. 

So it would take Nick Saban money to bring him in. To Indiana football. 

That's a "NO."

Maybe so but it's worth checking. See if there's any mutual interest between IU and Leipold, if there's not, then it is a moot point. However, if there is interest, Dolson can "sell the vision" to the donors and the money may follow.

[BottomLine]

It isn't about the coach guys.  Hate to be a Debbie Downer but:

1.  Indiana is bad because Indiana has always been bad.  We will never be good until we break that mental loop.  Many have tried and all have failed, or moved on to better jobs.

2.  Indiana will never be good when we celebrate signing players that would be 2nd, 3rd or 4th string players at Ohio State or Michigan.  And, if they improve the portal is always there for them to escape.

3.  We all need to realize that, unlike basketball, football is a "numbers" sport.  IU has always been a terrible second half football school because we have never been able to develop depth.  Out starters may be competitive but the backup aren't there and other teams wear us down.

I don't have the answer to any of these problems and I don't think that we are going to be able to bring in any coach that can answer them.  If that coach exists he is already the head of a winning program elsewhere.

[Tom White]

1 hour ago, Henryville Hoosier said:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/jon-gruden-named-big-wildcard-candidate-indiana-football-job-report   SIAP

Gruden and his agent always claim to be on the list for every single football job opening every year. He is more than just a bit self-infatuated.

[Woodsonshump]

12 minutes ago, BottomLine said:

It isn't about the coach guys.  Hate to be a Debbie Downer but:

1.  Indiana is bad because Indiana has always been bad.  We will never be good until we break that mental loop.  Many have tried and all have failed, or moved on to better jobs.

2.  Indiana will never be good when we celebrate signing players that would be 2nd, 3rd or 4th string players at Ohio State or Michigan.  And, if they improve the portal is always there for them to escape.

3.  We all need to realize that, unlike basketball, football is a "numbers" sport.  IU has always been a terrible second half football school because we have never been able to develop depth.  Out starters may be competitive but the backup aren't there and other teams wear us down.

I don't have the answer to any of these problems and I don't think that we are going to be able to bring in any coach that can answer them.  If that coach exists he is already the head of a winning program elsewhere.

Indiana is bad because Indiana could not care less about its football program. Unless and until that changes, Indiana will always be bad. Doesn't matter who the coach is. When the powers that be are ready and willing to throw the bank at football, Indiana can then be good. Not until. I'm still not convinced that Indiana even cares about basketball at this point, but that's another conversation altogether.

[Golfman25]

45 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

That's pretty much Iowa's mantra. It's been that way for a quarter century. 

Ferentz was 12-21 as a head coach in college.  By that record he would be considered a real hard NO by many hear.  LOL.  :) 

[Demo]

12 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Leipold makes about $6 million annually and currently has a $12.5 million buyout. 

So it would take Nick Saban money to bring him in. To Indiana football. 

That's a "NO."

The 2 sort of comparable situations that really interest me are Leipold at KU and James Franklin at Vandy. They took over $hit programs that everyone said you couldn't win at and fixed'em pretty damned quickly. And that's where the superficial similarities end. Franklin was 38 or 39 and had never been an HC anywhere. Leipold was something like 57 and had the nice, but not stunning, run at Buffalo after kicking everybody's a$$ in D-3 for a bunch of years. But what they had to have shared was an eye for under-valued talent and a vision that they could communicate combined with the discipline to execute it. We'd all love Leipold obviously, but if Dolson hires a guy with his resume at Buffalo, we're probably gonna be collectively underwhelmed. There are just some articles of faith stuff that we have to be prepared to accept. Those schools did and got paid off. IU football can't hire a clean candidate. The guy's gonna have warts of some kind.

[Golfman25]

3 minutes ago, hoosierfan84 said:

Indiana is bad because Indiana could not care less about its football program. Unless and until that changes, Indiana will always be bad. Doesn't matter who the coach is. When the powers that be are ready and willing to throw the bank at football, Indiana can then be good. Not until. I'm still not convinced that Indiana even cares about basketball at this point, but that's another conversation altogether.

How much you spending?  

IU has a ton of obstacles to overcome for football.  The biggest is it's lack of any history of success.  You're not going to be able to buy your way out of that history.  You need to build it one brick at a time.  You need a coach that can set the foundation and build a program from there.  But good players want to play for a winner.  So you have to figure out how to win with what you got.  That's 100% coaching. Sure support him, build facilities and whatnot.  But if he can't win a football games because he's a moron -- i.e.; makes all sorts of in game coaching errors -- it's not going to matter.  

[Stuhoo]

12 minutes ago, Demo said:

The 2 sort of comparable situations that really interest me are Leipold at KU and James Franklin at Vandy. They took over $hit programs that everyone said you couldn't win at and fixed'em pretty damned quickly. And that's where the superficial similarities end. Franklin was 38 or 39 and had never been an HC anywhere. Leipold was something like 57 and had the nice, but not stunning, run at Buffalo after kicking everybody's a$$ in D-3 for a bunch of years. But what they had to have shared was an eye for under-valued talent and a vision that they could communicate combined with the discipline to execute it. We'd all love Leipold obviously, but if Dolson hires a guy with his resume at Buffalo, we're probably gonna be collectively underwhelmed. There are just some articles of faith stuff that we have to be prepared to accept. Those schools did and got paid off. IU football can't hire a clean candidate. The guy's gonna have warts of some kind.

Bingo. In other words it can be done.

From the limited knowledge of what I've seen so far I'm looking for a combination of:

• Leadership 
• Charisma but with a no-nonsense personality
• Relative youth
• Technical coaching imagination and expertise

So for me I'd be really happy with Candle or Sherrone Moore. Not sure if either of those guys would be interested, but those would be two pretty damn fine choices.