IUBB vs Army - Sunday, 11.12.23 @ 7:00 on BTN

[Dave from Dayton]

6 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I do. The quickness number for Gabe Cupps is 126.89.

My basis for this and methodology? WTF do you think I am; some kind of Purdoo geek-o-matic Poindexter?

Just trust me. It's exactly 126.89.

 

Well, I have no doubt in that number.

I do wonder what Payton Sparks' quickness numbers were with his boot.  And then without it.

And Xavier's versus Yogi's...

And those comics on Whose Line Is It Anyway?  They are quick.

[IU_FanClub]

42 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Anyone else see UK shoot themselves out of the game last night? Taking 3 pointers for the hell of it isn't a winning strategy, 38 to be exact.

I don't think anyone is asking us to shoot 30+ threes a game. I think 16 to 20 would be just fine but 11 threes a game is not enough.

[go iu bb]

8 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Come on man. You know they don’t post publicly there 40 times. But you and anyone can see he is not that quick. Fast twitch and burst are not there. These are easy to see measurable differences.

That is easy to see. He makes up for it by good positioning and working hard but against the faster guards, it won’t matter. 

like I already said, I give. You and a good amount feel he is. We will see soon. That killed us at times last year and don’t think he is the solve. But my concerns with him in no way are the same as others put on X or MM. They have bias and it is very easy to see with how they talk about them. The Taco Bell thread showed plenty. You were very fact based and respectful there and asking that your love for Cupps not cloud what I am getting at.

For arguments sake, let's say you're right about his limits. The list is long in both basketball and football (since you brought up NFL/WR above) of players who weren't the most physically gifted but who were still able to excel due to hard work, determination, grit, and understanding of the game. It's too early to say he's not one of these and, if anything, I would say the early evidence points more towards him being one than not. But it's veeeeery early in college career so maybe wait and see before writing him off. Or not. But you're not going to get many agreeing with you on here so it really looks like you're just wanting to argue with people.

[go iu bb]

49 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Kansas (6-18 from 3 last night) dominated at the rim and got to the Free Throw line when they wanted. You don't need to jack 30+ 3's a game to win...even more so if you don't have the personnel to do it. That's all. 

That's 18 in one game. IU has taken 24 total this season, so 18 would be a 50% increase from the average of 12 per game. That would be an improvement.

[Uspshoosier]

[realTomCrean]

50 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We're not that good in the halfcourt. Our 3pt defense sucks. Our pace is terrible. Reneau and Ware won't be nearly as effective or dominant when we're going against power 5 conference teams. 

What we're doing barely worked against FGCU and almost lost us a game to one of the worst teams in D1 basketball. 

Again, we don't need to lead the Nation I'm 3pt attemps, but we need to shoot more to compete once the competition gets better. 

Our bigs constistsly miss completely wide open shooters when double and tripled team all game long. There is absolutely no reason we can't and shouldn't shoot more. 

Kanas and UK both busted their tails to get in transition to limit halfcourt O. IU is sub-par for sure but it's only November - I believe a many teams are terrible right now. IU essentially has 3 choices: 1) Play fast in transition (Woodson's preference), 2) Learn tons of sets, 3) Play Wisconsin (Bo Ryan) games Zzz

[IndyResident16]

12 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

That's 18 in one game. IU has taken 24 total this season, so 18 would be a 50% increase from the average of 12 per game. That would be an improvement.

And only a 6 point differential assuming IU shoots at the same efficiency clip. Much rather take my chance cutting down on the turnovers and getting the extra possessions to work inside.

[Stuhoo]

8 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

And only a 6 point differential assuming IU shoots at the same efficiency clip. Much rather take my chance cutting down on the turnovers and getting the extra possessions to work inside.

Can we do both? For me? Pleeeeeeease?

[WayneFleekHoosier]

My 2 things.

 

1. Defend the 3.  You’ve done it your whole life. Its honestly not that complicated.  
 

2. get out in transition more and allow players to take quick shots if they are good shots.  
 

watching the fastest guy on our team walk the ball up and take 13 seconds to set up an offense or set that doesn’t result in a good shot is just the worst.  
 

[FortWayneHoosier]

Behind a paywall but that caption is enough to make you think…..

 

[Golfman25]

53 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

My 2 things.

 

1. Defend the 3.  You’ve done it your whole life. Its honestly not that complicated.  
 

2. get out in transition more and allow players to take quick shots if they are good shots.  
 

watching the fastest guy on our team walk the ball up and take 13 seconds to set up an offense or set that doesn’t result in a good shot is just the worst.  
 

Correct me if my memory is mistaken, but wasn't that the rub last year.  He kind of walked the ball up, slow to get going.  While JHS really moved it up with speed and authority.  

[IndyResident16]

13 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Ok, here is some data since eye test doesn’t work. I understand analytics are not end all. But you wanted some data.

Edit and add - no, not just trying to “argue” no, I don’t assume he can’t be effective etc. There are limits. He is also not as effective as many think he is right now.  That is people’s eye test assuming things because he works hard and that is the “IU type of guy” we need. 

Those saying he changed the game, maybe. Or as it we stopped playing with 2 5s and a 4? 

Cupps is a great role player off the bench for this year. Those wanting to put X on the bench for him, how is that based on anything other than bias. Which was big part of how this whole conversation started. That and me feeling we have to stop with the current lineup with MM, Malik and Ware and I would prefer to see how MM looks if given minutes and same role as Malik with the 3 guards. 

Who wants to put X on the bench in favor of Cupps? Most people want X to play alongside Cupps and this chart is exactly why. 

[HoosierHoopster]

4 hours ago, go iu bb said:

That's 18 in one game. IU has taken 24 total this season, so 18 would be a 50% increase from the average of 12 per game. That would be an improvement.

Why is this so hard to understand? Why are we actually engaged in an argument that shooting 3's at the BOTTOM of the B1G and sub 300 in the country, while we barely escape a God awful Army team, won't hamstring us? Of course we should be shooting more 3's, that should be obvious. We have guys who can shoot, but our offense is not geared to outside shooting, that also should be obvious. Shoot more. Please.

[IndyResident16]

5 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Why is this so hard to understand? Why are we actually engaged in an argument that shooting 3's at the BOTTOM of the B1G and sub 300 in the country, while we barely escape a God awful Army team, won't hamstring us? Of course we should be shooting more 3's, that should be obvious. We have guys who can shoot, but our offense is not geared to outside shooting, that also should be obvious. Shoot more. Please.

How does going 6/20 from 3 better the offense with the current personel lol? What volume shooters does this team have? There isn't a single player on this roster who has made more than 40 three point field goals in a season for their career. 

[realTomCrean]

3s 2s 1s I don't care as long as we win. Hell I'd take a 9-7 victory if that means we win and move on. Doesn't matter how just get the W.

2-0 Fellas let's all collectively breathe and let the staff who are paid millions and MILLIONSSS do the coaching

[IndyResident16]

Just now, Ngw7183 said:

More than a few on here have said it and all over Twitter. This is what sparked the conversation and my point that Cupps is being oversold. 

I'm an adult so I don't read Twitter and I'm going to need to see quotes where "more than a few on here" have said they want X benched in favor of Cupps. 

I have seen several people however suggest that going to a 3 guard lineup (with X and Cupps playing side by side) has been our best lineup to date...and they aren't wrong either. 

[Golfman25]

52 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Ok, here is some data since eye test doesn’t work. I understand analytics are not end all. But you wanted some data.

Edit and add - no, not just trying to “argue” no, I don’t assume he can’t be effective etc. There are limits. He is also not as effective as many think he is right now.  That is people’s eye test assuming things because he works hard and that is the “IU type of guy” we need. 

Those saying he changed the game, maybe. Or as it we stopped playing with 2 5s and a 4? 

Cupps is a great role player off the bench for this year. Those wanting to put X on the bench for him, how is that based on anything other than bias. Which was big part of how this whole conversation started. That and me feeling we have to stop with the current lineup with MM, Malik and Ware and I would prefer to see how MM looks if given minutes and same role as Malik with the 3 guards. 

Great, but you where claiming basically he wasn't fast/athletic enough to play in the Big10.  I was just asking if you knew his "combine" numbers.  You don't and are basing it on what you see.  No problem, just remember -- who you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?  :) 

And I'm not much for stats 2 games in.  And not 100% sure of their value over a short college basketball season.  You generally need a sample size of 20+ to be statistically relevant.   

[IndyResident16]

9 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I expanded on that to say I believe we need CJ come conference time because Cupps is not quick enough. I get he has been rough but given hardly any time with that group. Cupps has benefited greatly by playing with those other 4 in a 3 guard setup. 
 

it will all play out no matter. Ultimately this escalated because of the X should go to bench for Cupps, he isn’t a leader, plays dumb, etc, etc. it is clear to me where that comes from because it can’t be based on stats or eye test. Yes 2 games but look at stats. X is our most important player. 

Still waiting on that material by the way.......

[IndyResident16]

Just now, Ngw7183 said:

Already answered you. Not going to go back through threads or directly post names here. Maybe one of them will step back in and say they still feel that way. 

So I don't need to be sitting on my hands?

[FortWayneHoosier]

Alright folks let’s keep this about the game. No need for the back and forth. Thank you.